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Resettling Chellians

Postby blackshade10 on Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:47 pm

Why do I feel like I'm eating my own words? Ah well.


Here we can discuss ideas for resettling the area and creating our own sphere of influence. I'll put forward some of my own ideas.


First: Making a high quality road. I'm lead to believe that a road currently exists, but we might want to create on that's very nice, and branches out to various parts of the cavern for later development. Also can assist us with patrolling things and keeping it safe.

Second: Keeping folks OUT of Ther. I do not mean to have a closed door policy, but I am personally against folks setting up camp inside of Ther. A town surrounding Ther perhaps? Or rather, a neighborhood would be more appropriate wording.

Third: A gate at both the entrance and exit. We should make it open at all times(or just no door) and no taxes. Commoners take the long way to the Sarghres cavern just because it's not taxed! This is a great way to net more folks. CLARIFICATION: No taxes on the GATE, not the settlers, who WOULD be taxed.


I'll post ideas here as I think of em and see em, giving credit to whoever! ^^
Last edited by blackshade10 on Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Resettling Chellians

Postby Anza'ka Anzo on Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:01 pm

I agree with you on you're first two points but you should consider taxing them eventually or start at a very small tax. We should never do anything for free unless we can get some kind advantage from it. Besides I'm not sure a no tax policy will get us the best of Chel citizens, instead we'll get the worse. Thieves, peasants, cutthroats and all around garbage.

Besides it may provoke the Sarghress, drive out the good citizens and thus irritate our Sharen rulers.

BTW:

Yes, we need a road its been mentioned very often.
Yes, we should keep Thev to ourselves and setup shop a mile or few away from our center, though it may complicate things.
No thank you on the no taxing idea.
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Re: Resettling Chellians

Postby Thaluka2 on Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:09 pm

We should tax any settlers, otherwise there is little reason to have them. We just need to make sure it's at a fairly lower rate to compensate for not being part of the city core. I would agree, for now, with no "tolls" for merchants though. Let's find out what sort of people the Sharen can offer to resettle in our area, if they are actual productive citizens with incomes and the ability to purchase and supply their own basic needs (beyond housing) or more refugees such as we've already had the opportunity to adopt and passed on.
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Re: Resettling Chellians

Postby minalia on Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:11 pm

I agree on a few things
- No taxing on the profits of the merchants who install their wares on our lands since we will be their clients and don,t want to scare the merchants that will want to bring their familys to live here.
- No tool booth to tax merchants that will encourage the merchants to come more often on our route.
- Install a protection tax on people that live in our domain or suffer our wrath!!!! XD
- Choose the people that wish to live in our lands. What this means is that they need to introduce themselves to our Ilharess..swear their loyalty to our clan..and then they can live in our cavern and pay their taxes.
- Keep the tax low..near non existant for the time being(1 ada per week per person)..once we have a huge amount of people then we can gradualy increase the taxe little by little and start kicking out the squatters and crucify the non tax payers to demonstrate we don't like people who don't pay up their due.
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Re: Resettling Chellians

Postby Exate on Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:13 pm

blackshade10 wrote:First: Making a high quality road. I'm lead to believe that a road currently exists, but we might want to create on that's very nice, and branches out to various parts of the cavern for later development. Also can assist us with patrolling things and keeping it safe.
A road project would take the builders, miners, and/or mana specialists some time to handle, and will have to be delayed until the current defensive projects are completed (at least six turns, if I understand our current queue correctly). Still, it's definitely better for us to define the structure of any district which grows than to let one emerge organically, so this is a reasonable step to take.

blackshade10 wrote:Second: Keeping folks OUT of Ther. I do not mean to have a closed door policy, but I am personally against folks setting up camp inside of Ther. A town surrounding Ther perhaps? Or rather, a neighborhood would be more appropriate wording.
We talk about Ther'avare like it's a city, but it's really not- it's a clan fortress. Just like the Sarghress fortress has a large number of buildings inside (a decent view here), so does ours; a good clan fortress is a small city unto itself. No one not clan-affiliated would be allowed to live there. That shouldn't even be under discussion as an option.

Where in the cavern to settle people is an interesting question. Closer to us means that they'd have an easier time stealing from, spying on, or interfering with our operations. Farther makes guarding and patrolling them more difficult, and bringing support to them likewise. I'm personally inclined to keep our fortress at a small remove from the bulk of the population- perhaps locating them primarily in the general entrance area where we positioned our watchtower, and then expanding that into a patrol headquarters. That lets us keep an eye on things and be within general range of communication and support without having tons of people right on our doorstep. Of course, it also avoids settling the cavern proper at this juncture, but most people would likely prefer to be closer to Chel'el'sussoloth and if the people relocated there are relatively successful we can have the place expand.

blackshade10 wrote:Third: A gate at both the entrance and exit. We should make it open at all times(or just no door) and no taxes. Commoners take the long way to the Sarghres cavern just because it's not taxed! This is a great way to net more folks.
That's at least two turns of work for the builders, a constant garrison of two warrior squads needed. Still, we'll want to be monitoring the exit anyway, so that's a good move; the entrance gate seems much less practical to me as population rises, and we have been warned that this is part of the city and we should not attempt to segregate it.
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Re: Resettling Chellians

Postby blackshade10 on Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:18 pm

Allow me to clarify something: I meant tax the GATE, not tax the people. If you live here, then yes, you shall be taxed, but you can pass through for free. Only merchants would pass through anyway, and vermin are easy to spot if we have a garrison at the entrance.

And yes, I agree, no segregating ourselves. Just something that says "We're here to keep it safe, but go on through."

We might also want to imply that we do not tax the gates, but any donations will assist us in keeping away the ACTUAL vermin, such as bandits and thieves.
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Re: Resettling Chellians

Postby Whizzard on Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:46 pm

We are going to tax people who are going to live here thus we ought to provide them work that pays. Help for our castes, kind of like slaves but just payed labour. Why should we do that? If they are poor then they'll stay poor if they don't have any income so they won't be able to pay taxes. If we provide income, we'll also will rise these people from dump to little closer to civilised human... er drow beings.

We could put up an ad: looking for skilled blacksmith, pay this and that for each forged sword, etc. We gain by selling swords and from that we can pay them percentage for their labour. They will get richer, we will get richer, everyone are happy. We then could use our own blacksmiths to do complicated things while civil labour does the "production line" work.
Normal labour and our skilled professionals doing separate things.

For instance, building houses, we can hire people to do all the hard work while our skilled builders instruct and observe ensuring quality.
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Re: Resettling Chellians

Postby Ein'keos on Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:59 pm

I just didn't want to re-type everything.

Ein'keos wrote:It's okay if we get some people who are unemployed in the mix. We can hire them and turn them into prosperous contributors to our proposed district.

First of all, what are we afraid people are going to steal from us? Our salt, and our food. Solution? Hire the unemployed from our district (and only our district) and get them to harvest our salt for us, as proposed earlier, and get others to harvest the food. We'd have to expand the culture pools and mushroom farms first, but if we did we could go into business with unemployed people, have them harvest the food and then just cut them in for a percentage of what's harvested. Sure we'd have to patrol a little to make sure armed thieves don't steal from them, but we already do that, and this way we'd also have the hired harvesters available to keep an eye out for any trouble makers. But, you may ask, what then would the harvesters do? Well, this would free themup to do more interesting things then be stuck feeding the clan every turn. They'd be able to do things like perfect a Tei'kaliath liquor, or open up bars and restaurants that'd generate income for us. It'd also let us take some of those harvester slaves and re-train them for things like building and mining.

Aside from harvesting jobs the other ranks could open up a plethora of other businesses, if proven profitable. Maybe we could open up a school and golem repair shop. Heck, a school with adult eduction would be a hell of a productivity booster, as we've seen from our own experiences at Orthorbae. The district, once prosperous, would also provide an untaxed space for us where we can sell our excess stuff and open up a clinic without fear of getting attacked. Let's all keep in mind though that this won't be wonderful right off the bat, Kern always makes us work for it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try though, and I think this plan could really yield some great dividends.
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Re: Resettling Chellians

Postby minalia on Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:02 pm

If the people that will want to settle in and build their house, they need to buy a building permit, submit their construction plans to our builders so they can see if it's gonna be something that can stand and not destroy itself if they add to much weight and then choose to bring their own people to buy their house or afford our builders to build theirs at a cheaper price. They get their house, we get our money.
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Re: Resettling Chellians

Postby blackshade10 on Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:14 pm

i'm against us HIRING anyone, or at least, to many people.. People need to be self-sufficient. To encourage people to create a community and businesses.
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Re: Resettling Chellians

Postby Whizzard on Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:24 pm

Don't be such a downer, do you want beggars and thieves here or people who are able to work and preferably for us as it brings incomeee, oh yeah!
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Re: Resettling Chellians

Postby blackshade10 on Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:33 pm

Whizzard wrote:Don't be such a downer, do you want beggars and thieves here or people who are able to work and preferably for us as it brings incomeee, oh yeah!


Of course not. This is why we only allow decent people to settle. You want to sit around and not pay taxes? Fine, but expect a nice armed guard to get rid of you. Our income is the taxes, and they won't make money working for us since we have no money to pay them.
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Re: Resettling Chellians

Postby Whizzard on Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:43 pm

We will have once they do something that brings money like mass producing swords we can sell. And then we pay with the money we earn from sells and they can return some of that money to us by paying taxes. Or like the builders example, they build houses with our instructions that people will pay for and we pay them with that money, they pay taxes and return some of it to us.

It's normal economy, a typical venture, we won't pay them for jobs that don't bring profit.
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Re: Resettling Chellians

Postby blackshade10 on Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:45 pm

Whizzard wrote:We will have once they do something that brings money like mass producing swords we can sell. And then we pay with the money we earn from sells and they can return some of that money to us by paying taxes. Or like the builders example, they build houses with our instructions that people will pay for and we pay them with that money, they pay taxes and return some of it to us.


Also makes them clan members more or less. In the event of an attack, like the Dvar one, they would be targeted as well just as the Blacksmiths and Engineers were targeted. Besides, we want people to be self-sufficient, as it adds to the local economy.
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Re: Resettling Chellians

Postby Whizzard on Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:50 pm

They would be self-sufficient, only us would be the ones that make them self-sufficient, it's a gain-gain situation. And no, they won't become clan members (unless we want so) as they are just workers. We don't pay to our members as what clan gains is also gained by members. Clan provides everything to it's members for free and everyone (except faceless, ooh those lazy bastards!) contribute to the clan.
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