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If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Gunbird » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:50 pm

What if a portal opens up between our world and the moonless age one. How would the drow react if a strange form of “goblin” with strange weapons and machines start appearing on the above world? More specifically, special forces form the US and it allies .

What clans would be the friendly to the humans and who would be not. What would they think of the of the way we run our governments and institutions? What about our culture and ways of thinking? What would the "friendly clans think about our ideas against slavery, cannibalism, abuse of the commoners and so forth?

Im asking these questions because I'm trying to make story that is somewhat like Gate: Thus the JSDF fought there.....key word somewhat. I don’t want to spoil the tale but a it starts with portal opening between MA world and ours(Yes I know it not passable in canon). A grope of Black Suns go though it to raid the other side but what is left of them come back out after a few hours. i wonder why.

What would be the political and sociological consequences that would happen from first contact between Modern Earth humans and the Drowtales races?"

Oh and this is not about how the Drow or Humans are superior to each other. Pleas keep those types of arguments to a minimum on this thread. Thank you.
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Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Dalvyserran » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:18 pm

imagine it would go much like Earth Age did in daydream
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Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Gunbird » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:07 pm

You mean the story that didn't stay with one group for a few pages before switching to the next one? The story that also had a abrupt ending because of all tha fighting?

Im really not going to turn my story it to THAT mess. And the humans going into the MA world instead of the Drow coming in ours.

Like I said, how would the drow and other racers will react to seeing "goblins" caring odd weapons, piloting strange machines, and can see in dark just as well as the drow?
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Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby aceofAces » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:11 pm

Well since this along the lines of stuff I usually think about I can give it my best shot.

The drow would likely be surprised and maybe even a little curious about the new arrivals, but ultimately it would give way to "Eh, their only goblins. What can they really do?" as evidenced by Ariel and company's dismissal of Kyonne's concern about the Hermionnes in CH37.

I thnk that the first ones to establish relations would be the Nal'sarkoth and Ilhar'dro, probably sensing trade opportunities (and boy would they be right) with other clans not really caring all that much. The Sarghress would likely be hostile, since their main interactions with the goblin races is raiding and pillaging goods to bring back and sell for profit.

Democratic governments would throw them off wildly, since I doubt many Drow even have the concept of electing officials to power. Slavery would be more of a "how do you guys even function?" for a bit but eventually they'd calm down. I don't think we've seen evidence of cannibalism in the other goblins anyway so I'd imagine they think its just a goblin thing to not eat the dead.
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Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Qwalnee » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:59 pm

Gunbird wrote:You mean the story that didn't stay with one group for a few pages before switching to the next one? The story that also had a abrupt ending because of all tha fighting?

Im really not going to turn my story it to THAT mess. And the humans going into the MA world instead of the Drow coming in ours.

Like I said, how would the drow and other racers will react to seeing "goblins" caring odd weapons, piloting strange machines, and can see in dark just as well as the drow?


In this scenario, I do not envision many battles. Once the drow see the overwhelming power of the strange new goblins, they will understand that negotiation is necessity for survival, and if the drow are anything, they are survivors.

Where drow have preeminence over Earthlings is politics. Drow have centuries long experience in intrigue, backstabbing, manipulation and treachery that would make the most experienced Earth leaders look like preschoolers. The first clan that understands what makes Earthlings "tick", *why* they behave in the incomprehensible way they behave, this clan will run in rings around them, and will make them to destroy the enemy clans without difficulty. *lol*

As you see from my profile, I am a newbee. I read the story and browsed the wikipedia, but still do not understand Drow politics very much. *blush* And speculation about Earth side would break the unbreakable ban on discussing Earth politics and religion 8)

It is your idea, it is on you what you do with it. You can have optimistic take like http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fanfic/ANewWorld (crossover story of contact between Warcraft universe and real world Earth), or more realistic story inspired by Vietnam/Afgan/Iraq war, only by several magnitudes grislier.
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Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby ThatGuyThisGuy » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:07 am

Well their appearance would completely change the paradigms of all Drow leaders and most of them will probably realize that they are going to have to play nice if they want to survive the future.

Like just for an example of the stuff the Humans could do, they wouldn't need to invade the underworld to really fuck up Drow civilization they can just destroy Drow surface settlements and trade partners, and the food imports most major Drow cities need to live in their current state will be gone and everything down below will descend into anarchy which will result in a mass die off that will vastly reduce the power of Drow civilization.

And to the idea Drow will be able to politically out maneuver the Humans I have this to say; Politics is a game both sides have to be willing to play and if either side chooses to opt out, especially in this scenario where neither side has mutual ties, the other side simply can't do anything. And that is discounting the fact neither side knows anything about the other and have very alien mindsets in comparison that would make understanding the other side very difficult.
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Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Gunbird » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:23 am

Sorry for the late reply.

aceofAces wrote:The drow would likely be surprised and maybe even a little curious about the new arrivals, but ultimately it would give way to "Eh, their only goblins. What can they really do?" as evidenced by Ariel and company's dismissal of Kyonne's concern about the Hermionnes in CH37.


There going to be a situation were a group of drow are going see how the human can fight. There going to be shocked that such weapons and equipment without mana.


aceofAces wrote:I thnk that the first ones to establish relations would be the Nal'sarkoth and Ilhar'dro, probably sensing trade opportunities (and boy would they be right) with other clans not really caring all that much.


I agree would think the trading clans would the most friendly to the new comers, but what would they triad with? i was thinking the only real thing they can triad with the military is intelligence about the other clans.

aceofAces wrote:Democratic governments would throw them off wildly, since I doubt many Drow even have the concept of electing officials to power. Slavery would be more of a "how do you guys even function?" for a bit but eventually they'd calm down. I don't think we've seen evidence of cannibalism in the other goblins anyway so I'd imagine they think its just a goblin thing to not eat the dead.


Not too mention the concept rule of law, fair trials, freedom of speech and so on.

I thought some of the slaves had to resort to eating their own kind.


Qwalnee wrote:
In this scenario, I do not envision many battles. Once the drow see the overwhelming power of the strange new goblins, they will understand that negotiation is necessity for survival, and if the drow are anything, they are survivors.


That really deepens on the clan. Like ace said, The trader clans ,like the Nal'sarkoth and Ilhar'dro will defiantly negotiate with the humans.(Though in the sort run they will have a hard time selling anything other then intel.) The Black Suns, Kyorl'solenurn and Sarghress would not be so friendly.

Qwalnee wrote:Where drow have preeminence over Earthlings is politics. Drow have centuries long experience in intrigue, backstabbing, manipulation and treachery that would make the most experienced Earth leaders look like preschoolers. The first clan that understands what makes Earthlings "tick", *why* they behave in the incomprehensible way they behave, this clan will run in rings around them, and will make them to destroy the enemy clans without difficulty. *lol*


They may have a lot of experience, but most of it is with a monarchy(Or something like it). How could they manipulate republics and democracies if the don’t understand how they work?

And I think the military reluctant to tell them every thing about how there government works

Qwalnee wrote:As you see from my profile, I am a newbee. I read the story and browsed the wikipedia, but still do not understand Drow politics very much. *blush* And speculation about Earth side would break the unbreakable ban on discussing Earth politics and religion 8)


Welcome to DT. Were the drow are less backstabery…..somewhat.

As for the politics, I think it would be fine as long as no one gose into a argument on which ideology or politician is the best or worst. :)

ThatGuyThisGuy wrote:Well their appearance would completely change the paradigms of all Drow leaders and most of them will probably realize that they are going to have to play nice if they want to survive the future.

Like just for an example of the stuff the Humans could do, they wouldn't need to invade the underworld to really fuck up Drow civilization they can just destroy Drow surface settlements and trade partners, and the food imports most major Drow cities need to live in their current state will be gone and everything down below will descend into anarchy which will result in a mass die off that will vastly reduce the power of Drow civilization.


Thats a bit of extreme. There got to be some good reasons to attack those settlements and trade routes.

I hope I don’t spoil my story, but the reason the humans went though the gate in the first was because a bunch Black Suns raided our world and took prisoners . I’ve talk to a few family members who were in the military and they said that the only good reason to go though that gate is to rescue the prisoners. They’er not there to conquer the MA world.

ThatGuyThisGuy wrote:And to the idea Drow will be able to politically out maneuver the Humans I have this to say; Politics is a game both sides have to be willing to play and if either side chooses to opt out, especially in this scenario where neither side has mutual ties, the other side simply can't do anything. And that is discounting the fact neither side knows anything about the other and have very alien mindsets in comparison that would make understanding the other side very difficult.


I didn’t understand what you mean. You’er saying that none of the clans would be friendly?
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Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby ThatGuyThisGuy » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:37 pm

Gunbird wrote:Thats a bit of extreme. There got to be some good reasons to attack those settlements and trade routes.

I hope I don’t spoil my story, but the reason the humans went though the gate in the first was because a bunch Black Suns raided our world and took prisoners . I’ve talk to a few family members who were in the military and they said that the only good reason to go though that gate is to rescue the prisoners. They’er not there to conquer the MA world.


I did not mean to say that is what will be done by the Humans by default. I just gave that as an example of what they can potentially do to fuck up Drow civilization.

Gunbird wrote:I didn’t understand what you mean. You’er saying that none of the clans would be friendly?


I was refuting Qwalnee's idea that the Drow could use politics to dominate the Humans.
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Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Gunbird » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:58 pm

ThatGuyThisGuy wrote:I did not mean to say that is what will be done by the Humans by default. I just gave that as an example of what they can potentially do to fuck up Drow civilization.


But what good reason would do something drastic like that?

Oh, like I said in the first post, lets not turn this into a argument about who would "Curb-Stomp" who.

ThatGuyThisGuy wrote:I was refuting Qwalnee's idea that the Drow could use politics to dominate the Humans.


I look at you comment agin. Ts seems like you were saying their will be a stalemate of some sorts. Im I right?
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Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby ThatGuyThisGuy » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:09 am

Gunbird wrote:
But what good reason would do something drastic like that?

Oh, like I said in the first post, lets not turn this into a argument about who would "Curb-Stomp" who.


I was just giving an example of something they could do to hamstring the Drow while avoiding the vast majority of the Drow's strength.

Gunbird wrote:
I look at you comment agin. Ts seems like you were saying their will be a stalemate of some sorts. Im I right?


I was proposing a hypothetical scenario where they are hostile to each other but they are not exchanging blows.
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Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Gunbird » Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:36 pm

Looks like no one is talked about the other races in MA. What would there reactions will be?

I would think that the Emberi and the Halmes would be the most likely to be friendly to the new comers, though I think there’re will some groups of those races will be less then friendly.

The Light Elves will try to stay away from them as much as they can. If they make contact with the humans, they would ether fight or run away. Agin there not that much info about them, so this is s guest.

The Noz and Hemionne would most likely to hostile . Why Hermionne? I think when they see the equipment the humans are using and think they are powered magic. We will no better then the black devils in there eyes.

The Kotorcs? I really don’t know. Maybe try to steal some stuff form us?
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Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Metzger » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:48 am

wel,l there would be some culture clash/tense moments between the halmes and "us" due to the whole slavery and stuff
other than that I believe your analysis of the situation is pretty much spot on
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Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby JohnGB0083 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:24 pm

Gunbird wrote:Looks like no one is talked about the other races in MA. What would there reactions will be?

I would think that the Emberi and the Halmes would be the most likely to be friendly to the new comers, though I think there’re will some groups of those races will be less then friendly.


I believe this, would be the worst thing that could happen for the Drow.

Despite, the names they're given in DT, the Emberi and the Halmes are essentially other forms of humans and that's how the could likely be seen by Earthlings. Depending on who is leading the Earth nations I depict the following.

Earth Humans, learning from their own experience and history will like seek friendly relation with the Emberi and the Halmes, and with those relations comes the exchange of knowledge, starting first with overcoming the language barrier then turning to trade. At the beginning it could be a trade of information. Earthlings would want information about the DT world and its possible resources and the Emberi and Halmes leaders would want knowledge of Earth weaponry. If the leaders of earth are smart and not looking to exploit the Emberi and Halmes, they'll be caution want give these native "humans" of DT modern weaponry that can't yet produced or effectively control. You know saying "give a man fish and he can eat for day, teach a man to fish and he can eat for a life time".

The best option for the Emberi and Halmes would for Earth to start them slowly, help Emberi and Halmes advance their civilizations in stages rather than all at once. IN terms of weapon tech, I'd say it be best to start them off with weaponry they can produce on their own without the assistant of Earth. The most logical choice would be the 17th/18th century musket and cannon along with the knowledge of how to produce early forms of gunpowder. Along knowledge of advance mathematics, construction techniques, and shipbuilding. This would allow the Emberi and the Halmes develop their civilizations own own hopefully stand more effectively against Drow raiders, and Hermionne aggression. If Hermionne have smart leaders they themselves may want engage in diplomacy to obtain the same knowledge or risk being wiped by a technology superior Emberi or Halmes nation. Earth could even play a key role as mediated and try to get the native humans of DT to unify to a loose alliance of nations similar to NATO.

In regards to what the Emberi and the Halmes could provide earth beyond knowledge I would have it be the mana creatures that Vaelia uses. Earth sciencist would be interest in the concept of mana and possibly may wnat to use as a form of energy. Those little fairies would be useful for researching it.

Of course this all coming from the idea that Earth won't seek to colonize the new world for it's own use.
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Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Basileus_Ioannis » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:01 am

Hi all :) Looking at it from the DT natives' POV, the Emberi and especially the Halmes would be excited to learn of an advanced human race that's not trying to kill/conquer them like the Hermionne. As a matter of fact, the Halmes might be more eager than the relatively halcyon Emberi to trade with us, to help them fight off the encroaching Herms. The problem is, what would the Halmes trade in exchange for such help? Some Emberi consider the locusts as holy beings of nature, and despite what we saw Vaelia's son doing with his toy sword, mature Emberi might take issue with capturing them to trade with us. Whether Halmes hold the locusts in the same high regard is not known, maybe they consider them pests too and will be more than happy to round them up for us (which might cause ill will between them and the Emberi if they found out). Of course, if we give Halmes gunpowder weapons to fight off the Herms, not only the Herms but the Drow and the Emberi will all be concerned, as it upsets their own balances of power

Maybe weapons aren't a good idea to trade...perhaps Halmes could just use help with engineering better defenses, or medical technology, or even agricultural knowledge to increase crop yields (won't help them with defense, but sufficient and better quality food might make the Halmes healthier, bigger, stronger, which could tip the scales over time). Again, any help we give one of the ethnic groups will impact the others, so enhancing the Halmes might make them an even bigger target as the Drow join the Herms in trying to take their newly-acquired knowledge and products for themselves

I could imagine the Emberi being very interested in better ship technology. Maybe not full-on motorized boats, but even advanced sail technology could help them greatly. Other things might be stainless steel knives that don't rust and holds a keen edge better, or fabrics for clothing, sails, shelter, load-bearing equipment like packs and belts, footwear, you name it. A simple 'fish finder' would totally be magic for them (but maintaining any form of electronics would be beyond their capabilities, especially power). Other things that they could use right away might be medical (like the Halmes), or meteorological (to predict storms, tidal patterns, etc.), even fresh water supply and sanitation

The Herms won't sit idly by while their opponents get a hand-up. If they don't try to take them by force from the DT natives, they might try to open diplomatic relations with us themselves. They have a sizable empire going, so their information about the world might be more useful to us than the limited areas the Halmes and Emberi control, but knowledge about the Drow might be better found from those goblins who are friendly to them, and not their enemies. Also, from what we've seen of the Herms, they don't have anything we didn't have centuries ago. But they were using fire weapons at Ys, so maybe they have access to crude oil? As we are moving away from fossil fuels, I don't know if we'd want to establish relations with the warlike Herms just for access to their oil (which would be of questionable quality and quantity)

Now the Drow...they think they're at the top of the food chain, I don't see them looking favorably upon goblins that can readily kick their ass militarily. They don't have a problem trading with Halmes and Emberi, because they know them, they are nowhere near as powerful as the weakest Drow clan. If the Drow were willing to trade with a powerful human people, they'd be trading with the Herms already instead of fighting them. They fight the Herms because they know they are superior to them. But Earth humans, who have weapons that measure their effective range in hundreds of meters if not thousands of miles, and can kill dozens if not thousands of people in one shot? Who have artificial 'moons' circling our planet, devices that allow us to communicate around the world, vehicles that can tirelessly (npi, even airplanes have tires :D ) whisk us along at hundreds of miles per hour to destinations thousands of miles away? I think the reaction would be like if aliens in spaceships came to our world: fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of what we could do to them, fear of us dominating their lives, their culture. There may be some jealousy about our tech, especially in areas where we are better at it than their mana tech. But "curiosity killed the cat" and all, some Drow will get over their misgivings and will want to exchange with us. I predict the younger Drow will be more eager, and older Drow may roll their eyes at their kids wearing t-shirts with logos of things they don't understand, speaking in words foreign to them, and Sharess forbid, riding those skateboards! *wee* But given enough time, and if the Drow don't kill us or get killed by us, relations should normalize...at least one can only hope :)
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Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Shgon Dunstan » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:20 pm

I guess the big question is simply what exactly are the humans wanting from their world?

Most of the drow's tech while physics redefining... Is completely useless to a human. In it's current state anyway. They lack the power to use it, and most of it wouldn't even work on earth to begin with... Which of course, is one of the bigger reasons the drow would have little hope against them in a war.

There is a lot of fuel for public interest and scientific curiosity, but large scale cultural relations are likely going to need more to drive them.

In short... Trade? Exactly what are the relatively tiny population of drow supposed to "trade" to the modern world that would amount to anything more then an overpriced souvenir?
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