Direct all of your questions and inquiries of Drowtales and its world setting here. You can also participate in the construction of the world setting wiki

If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby ThatGuyThisGuy » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:42 pm

There are going to be some serious changes, and whomever gets in the good graces of MH are likely going to be getting the better end of changes.

Military conquest by the MHs isn't really necessary to completely up end the world as they can simply give their preferred faction the knowledge to make better technology, and flood it with weapons like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Rolling_Block_rifle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XjlxwdHEEY and a large supply of high explosives and this would likely allow that faction to dominate the surface. The ability of the MHs to influence the course of the world is nigh unlimited.
User avatar
ThatGuyThisGuy
Demon
 
Posts: 850
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:58 pm

Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Pariel » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:40 am

Dalvyserran wrote:imagine it would go much like Earth Age did in daydream


An utter mess.

Let us be fair. Some people would seek a peaceful cooperation out of curiosity, until some people playing Mighty Human would try to patronize drow. And viceversa.

And then it all goes down on who can find the weakness first and stab without remorse.
User avatar
Pariel
Sharen Errand Boy
 
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:08 pm
Location: Abandoned
Clan: Sharen

Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Shgon Dunstan » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:31 am

Pariel wrote:
Dalvyserran wrote:imagine it would go much like Earth Age did in daydream


An utter mess.

Let us be fair. Some people would seek a peaceful cooperation out of curiosity, until some people playing Mighty Human would try to patronize drow. And viceversa.

And then it all goes down on who can find the weakness first and stab without remorse.

...Every single drow could kill 500,000 humans a piece, and they would still be screwed just in the numbers game. That's without even touching on how half their tech wouldn't work without mana, or how they couldn't even hold any territory on earth without it... Which itself is ignoring a modern army's ability to make it literally rain death from clear over the horizon..


The drow would have exactly zero chance in a war with modern earth. The terrain of their caves might give them time to think about just how screwed they are, but it sure isn't enough to give them any hope of winning.

That isn't "Mighty Human" That is just superior numbers, logistics, and firepower... Like it isn't even a contest.


... But like I said before, not exactly sure what the humans are even supposed to want from the drow. They have some cool things, sure... But almost all of them would be completely useless to a human.
User avatar
Shgon Dunstan
Tainted
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:40 pm
Clan: Nal'sarkoth

Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby ThatGuyThisGuy » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:06 pm

Shgon Dunstan wrote:
Pariel wrote:
Dalvyserran wrote:imagine it would go much like Earth Age did in daydream


An utter mess.

Let us be fair. Some people would seek a peaceful cooperation out of curiosity, until some people playing Mighty Human would try to patronize drow. And viceversa.

And then it all goes down on who can find the weakness first and stab without remorse.

...Every single drow could kill 500,000 humans a piece, and they would still be screwed just in the numbers game. That's without even touching on how half their tech wouldn't work without mana, or how they couldn't even hold any territory on earth without it... Which itself is ignoring a modern army's ability to make it literally rain death from clear over the horizon..


The drow would have exactly zero chance in a war with modern earth. The terrain of their caves might give them time to think about just how screwed they are, but it sure isn't enough to give them any hope of winning.

That isn't "Mighty Human" That is just superior numbers, logistics, and firepower... Like it isn't even a contest.


... But like I said before, not exactly sure what the humans are even supposed to want from the drow. They have some cool things, sure... But almost all of them would be completely useless to a human.


Well that and as I and many others said before the MH don't need to invade to upend Drow civilization, simply giving material and knowledge to any one faction will probably allow them to dominate the surface and a big theme in DT is that whoever controls the surface controls the future of the world, and for example simply cutting off food imports to the Drow cities below will send them into chaos.
User avatar
ThatGuyThisGuy
Demon
 
Posts: 850
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:58 pm

Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby JohnGB0083 » Thu May 18, 2017 5:09 pm

ThatGuyThisGuy wrote:
Dalvyserran wrote:imagine it would go much like Earth Age did in daydream


An utter mess.

Let us be fair. Some people would seek a peaceful cooperation out of curiosity, until some people playing Mighty Human would try to patronize drow. And viceversa.

And then it all goes down on who can find the weakness first and stab without remorse.

...Every single drow could kill 500,000 humans a piece, and they would still be screwed just in the numbers game. That's without even touching on how half their tech wouldn't work without mana, or how they couldn't even hold any territory on earth without it... Which itself is ignoring a modern army's ability to make it literally rain death from clear over the horizon..


The drow would have exactly zero chance in a war with modern earth. The terrain of their caves might give them time to think about just how screwed they are, but it sure isn't enough to give them any hope of winning.

That isn't "Mighty Human" That is just superior numbers, logistics, and firepower... Like it isn't even a contest.


... But like I said before, not exactly sure what the humans are even supposed to want from the drow. They have some cool things, sure... But almost all of them would be completely useless to a human.[/quote]

Well that and as I and many others said before the MH don't need to invade to upend Drow civilization, simply giving material and knowledge to any one faction will probably allow them to dominate the surface and a big theme in DT is that whoever controls the surface controls the future of the world, and for example simply cutting off food imports to the Drow cities below will send them into chaos.[/quote]

And modern humans are far more likely to- share materials and knowledge with the human races of the Drowtale world than the Drow. Which, overtime would eliminate or at least close the power gap between the two races. Additionally, modern humans could help Valeria's people with further developing and learning how to make greater use of the fairy creatures, and even develop them beyond their current abilities through genetic manipulation anyone.
JohnGB0083
Nether Seed
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:56 pm
Clan: Sarghress

Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Shgon Dunstan » Sun May 21, 2017 8:00 am

JohnGB0083 wrote:
And modern humans are far more likely to- share materials and knowledge with the human races of the Drowtale world than the Drow. Which, overtime would eliminate or at least close the power gap between the two races. Additionally, modern humans could help Valeria's people with further developing and learning how to make greater use of the fairy creatures, and even develop them beyond their current abilities through genetic manipulation anyone.

... I honestly have a hard time seeing very many, if any, first world countries... Or hell, much of anyone, giving Drowtale-verse humans much more then the likes of some nicknacks and firearms. Maybe RPGs or the like.


Full on uplifting though... Even if they did get past all the moral and historical baggage that went with that kind of thing, we're talking about a massive undertaking, and... For what?


Perhaps they might take humanitarian action against stuff like that plague, but... Even that kind of depends on how easily travel between the two worlds can happen. If it's really easy then they could maybe ship things in, but if it's quite hard, they'd basically have to take the place over just to even really start to do much good on that end.
User avatar
Shgon Dunstan
Tainted
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:40 pm
Clan: Nal'sarkoth

Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby ThatGuyThisGuy » Mon May 22, 2017 12:00 pm

Shgon Dunstan wrote:
JohnGB0083 wrote:
And modern humans are far more likely to- share materials and knowledge with the human races of the Drowtale world than the Drow. Which, overtime would eliminate or at least close the power gap between the two races. Additionally, modern humans could help Valeria's people with further developing and learning how to make greater use of the fairy creatures, and even develop them beyond their current abilities through genetic manipulation anyone.

... I honestly have a hard time seeing very many, if any, first world countries... Or hell, much of anyone, giving Drowtale-verse humans much more then the likes of some nicknacks and firearms. Maybe RPGs or the like.


Full on uplifting though... Even if they did get past all the moral and historical baggage that went with that kind of thing, we're talking about a massive undertaking, and... For what?


Perhaps they might take humanitarian action against stuff like that plague, but... Even that kind of depends on how easily travel between the two worlds can happen. If it's really easy then they could maybe ship things in, but if it's quite hard, they'd basically have to take the place over just to even really start to do much good on that end.


I don't think uplifting the Human inhabitants of the DT world will be all that controversial, the alternative to uplifting them is them being dominated by a hostile alien race that will mostly treat them as disposable tools or chattel.

The historical baggage simply does not apply to this situation as the circumstances and motivations for uplifting them is vastly different from historical cases.
User avatar
ThatGuyThisGuy
Demon
 
Posts: 850
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:58 pm

Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Gunbird » Mon May 22, 2017 4:30 pm

OK, I think this discussion is going off the road a bet.

Shgon and other people made there point that would gain to do any operations in the MA would because there would be no gain from it. And because of that I don't see the point in adding the surface races (whether Fae or non-fae). They don't seem to keen on turning their nations into republics or democracies, especially the Hermionne and Light elves.

Also If the portal from their world opens in two hours we would more likely just save the captives then try to seal up or destroy that for. This is what so my uncle was in the Navy said.

I forgot to mention that reason I posted this thread to get some ideas for a sort of portal fantasy Fanfic. But I changed my mind about it and went for a more original setting. I couldn't find a good reason to open such of gate, nor I can find a way to make such a gate that is believable in the moonless age world. (Only demons come out of the gates.)

Im sorry I didn't mention that in the first place.
User avatar
Gunbird
Vel'akar
 
Posts: 1430
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:51 pm
Location: A Island that looks like a fish.

Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Shgon Dunstan » Tue May 23, 2017 6:36 am

Gunbird wrote:OK, I think this discussion is going off the road a bet.

Shgon and other people made there point that would gain to do any operations in the MA would because there would be no gain from it. And because of that I don't see the point in adding the surface races (whether Fae or non-fae). They don't seem to keen on turning their nations into republics or democracies, especially the Hermionne and Light elves.


Honestly, the light elves seem like perhaps the biggest issue with human/drow interactions where the humans have the initiative. I mean... They are just all around easier to deal with. "Get to" even. They might not have all the drows mana-tech, but... That stuff is useless to the humans anyway. While the light elves do still have mana for humans to study.

Also If the portal from their world opens in two hours we would more likely just save the captives then try to seal up or destroy that for. This is what so my uncle was in the Navy said.

I forgot to mention that reason I posted this thread to get some ideas for a sort of portal fantasy Fanfic. But I changed my mind about it and went for a more original setting. I couldn't find a good reason to open such of gate, nor I can find a way to make such a gate that is believable in the moonless age world. (Only demons come out of the gates.)

Im sorry I didn't mention that in the first place.

Been there.

First even heard of DT in a Vs that had it up against the Wheel of Time setting. Then spent pretty much all of my first read through trying to brainstorm ways to get a crossover between the two to work...

At the end of the day most of what I got was that, much like WoT itself really, as fun and interesting as it might sound to crossover the characters and culture. DT doesn't really crossover with other settings very well. For a lot of different reasons.

Lets see... Like a lot of settings quite logically end up, it's magic system is built around combating itself. With tactics and counter tactics to that effect. The issue there is... What happens if the other side uses something completely unlike mana? Or hell, they do, but then have no conceivable way of countering demons? You end up with a lot of the drows powers either being completely useless, of just an out and out "I win" button.

Oh, but what about everything else they can do with mana? It isn't just anti-mana spells and the like... Only DT is in the grand scheme of things a rather low firepower setting, and even worse, is really light on anything particularly Hax. Which in turn leaves them with rather limited options when up against Hax. As an example "Hax". WoT's channelers(mages) have the ability to turn air solid. They basically use it like telekinesis. Moving things, holding people, bubble shields, etc. The point? Said solid air just flat out ignores all physical force applied to it... What is a drow even supposed to "do" to that kind of thing without anti-magic? Most mana combat deals with different forms of blasting things.

Then you have things like their low population. Complete reliance on mana to live. Their mana-tech's even greater reliance on mana to work. And even their culture itself...

Their culture... Even ignoring the whole "they're evil" thing, there is the BIG reason "who would beat who" rather maters with them... About the only way they are ever going to take a human seriously as an equal is if they are grabbed violently by the throat and made to. Slave? Sure. Mercenary? Why not. Underling? Maybe. But complete equal? They have a hard enough time seeing each other as that.

Which of course... Leads to it's own problems fic wise. The same ones this thread has already been talking about really. As if someone is strong enough to do that, whether by personal power or with an army, they... Can likely walk all over the drow, with the drow being able to do little about it.

If they can't... They are likely to accomplish next to nothing. Hell, they have a decent chance of ending up getting eaten.


Thus a fic would basically have to walk a tightrope of the one crossing over with them being strong enough for there to even be a plot, but at the same time there actually being some form of story past "and then they got their way in all things. Petty the drow who tried to say otherwise".



As for making something actually work... Have played around with the idea of perhaps a small group being "Island in the Sea of Time"'d into DT's underworld, and then building up a following among the drow commoners. Effectively forming a clan... But at the end of the day it would seem to fall into the same issue of "conquer or be conquered" as any other... As that largely has more to do with the drow themselves then anything. Personally I think the key is setting that can actually work with mana rather then against it. Something like Korra or Naruto. Either one plopped down with/in place of Valeria in the story would lead to... Interesting things. Korra would definitely be the more "balanced" being fairly on par with the drow outside of Avatar state. Naruto wouldn't be that bad if taken from like his training trip. Then just have him go back home about the DT time skip, only to return after it... As basically an untouchable godlike being who wants to help bring peace to the drow without just forcing it on them... What with that being completely against his beliefs and all.

... But really, the "fun" thing about crossing DT over with Naruto, would simply be that on top of perhaps being able to mix chakra and mana like Sage Energy. Chakra is contagious. If someone with it links theirs with someone without the ability to mix their physical and spiritual energies, said linking gives them the ability to learn how to. Which would really mix things up in DT.

As far as opening gates and the like... It's not really that hard. When all else fails, there is always the "it just happens" approach like with Island in the Sea of Time. Or even just have some random drow simply think of another way of opening a portal, and... What do you know, it works. With WoT I played around with the idea of the drow finding a Portal Stone(think of it like a cross-dimensional teleporter) and simply being able to get it to work with mana.

Or hell, what is simply the biggest most arrogant most out and out stupid conceit of the drow. That only they can open such things, and that nothing in all the multiverse is EVER going to either notice are care that they are doing it...

(Off topic you say? ^^; )
User avatar
Shgon Dunstan
Tainted
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:40 pm
Clan: Nal'sarkoth

Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Gunbird » Tue May 23, 2017 9:43 am

It a bit off topic. But I don't mind.

I did asked some questions earlier on the fourm about how would a portal work in DT.
User avatar
Gunbird
Vel'akar
 
Posts: 1430
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:51 pm
Location: A Island that looks like a fish.

Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Shgon Dunstan » Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:45 pm

Gunbird wrote:It a bit off topic. But I don't mind.

I did asked some questions earlier on the fourm about how would a portal work in DT.

Really... Speaking as someone who has been a fanfic reader for well over a decade now, my two cents is just don't over think that kind of thing.

It is the kind of thing that is easy to excuse. Be it with the drow using a different method of making a gate. The metaphysics of the other world just countering those of DT, or the age old standby of "it just happens". But while it's hard to go wrong with a simple explanation, overthinking it runs the risk of ending up in a convoluted mess that just distracts from the story.
User avatar
Shgon Dunstan
Tainted
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:40 pm
Clan: Nal'sarkoth

Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Isuckatnames45 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:34 pm

Honestly, if I was going to write something with this type of premise, I would have it so instead of a gate, the Earthlings are simply colonists from the future. Just what they brought with them are museum pieces. Completely obsolete in the battlefields of Terra or other more developed colonies, but more then enough (hopefully) to deal with the wilds of a recently discovered planet. I would first deal with the beginning stages of their colony and then build up from there. They would of gotten lucky and landed on an isolated part of the world, where most of the threats would be animals, and the odd hunter-gatherer tribes, there they would start building up their community, getting the layout of the land, studying the plants, and animals, see what's good, or bad, and cultivating their first farms. I would also try to show the differences between the Humans and Helms since one is native, and the other is a Xenos species that just have an uncanny resemblance to them. Maybe humans have an innate ability like psychic powers, not full blown like Warhammer or Star Wars, but something very subtle, maybe an intuition like grasping the languages a lot better. This could prove to be a double edge sword, as though it would greatly help better understanding the natives, it could make some become paranoid with the Earthlings.
Isuckatnames45
Tik'tikki
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:50 pm

Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby ThatGuyThisGuy » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:10 am

Isuckatnames45 wrote: Just what they brought with them are museum pieces. Completely obsolete in the battlefields of Terra or other more developed colonies, but more then enough (hopefully) to deal with the wilds of a recently discovered planet.

Eh, I don't think them using hundreds of years old designs with no modifications makes much sense as it is a fairly common practice to make new models of classic firearms that incorporate new technology, also its fairly common for businesses to make weapons that are solely meant for civilian use.

Maybe they are just using firearms that have a number of future advancements involved in their construction and design like caseless ammunition or super precise rifling made by AI guided tools or things like somekind of futuristic recoil absorption device built into the stock. They use these updated gunpowder weaponry because they are simpler, use easier to manufacture ammunition, cheaper, and are more reliable than whatever Laser or Plasma guns that are the bees knees on battlefields back home, but the models they use incorporate some future advancements into them to achieve greater effect.
User avatar
ThatGuyThisGuy
Demon
 
Posts: 850
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:58 pm

Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby Isuckatnames45 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:54 pm

ThatGuyThisGuy wrote:
Isuckatnames45 wrote: Just what they brought with them are museum pieces. Completely obsolete in the battlefields of Terra or other more developed colonies, but more then enough (hopefully) to deal with the wilds of a recently discovered planet.

Eh, I don't think them using hundreds of years old designs with no modifications makes much sense as it is a fairly common practice to make new models of classic firearms that incorporate new technology, also its fairly common for businesses to make weapons that are solely meant for civilian use.

Maybe they are just using firearms that have a number of future advancements involved in their construction and design like caseless ammunition or super precise rifling made by AI guided tools or things like somekind of futuristic recoil absorption device built into the stock. They use these updated gunpowder weaponry because they are simpler, use easier to manufacture ammunition, cheaper, and are more reliable than whatever Laser or Plasma guns that are the bees knees on battlefields back home, but the models they use incorporate some future advancements into them to achieve greater effect.

That does sound a lot more reasonable, but I was also thinking that there were laws that would limit them, things like machine guns, and automatic weapons would of been considered "barbaric" weapons to be used against natives who at their most advanced are iron age. They could use a tactic of fear using their technological superiority to break moral rather then how many bodies they can kill, using modernized ww1 era artillery, and as shock and fear weapons.
Isuckatnames45
Tik'tikki
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:50 pm

Re: If modern humans start appearing in MA world.

Postby ThatGuyThisGuy » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:30 pm

I know, since you said they came armed to deal with wildlife I imagined they would primarily be bringing hunting weapons with them like Shotguns and Bolt Action Rifles and maybe some semi-automatics.

Though I think colonists would be acting strongest, at least with their initial armaments, as a skirmishing force with ambushing as their primary tactic as they can effectively engage their enemies well beyond the range from which their enemies can effectively retaliate and the colonist forces will probably be able to detect their enemies before they can detect them at long ranges as they have various optical aid devices and if where being realistic about the Drow's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapetum_lucidum the Drow would have very poor long range vision, and the colonists can use radios to effectively coordinate long range ambushes.
User avatar
ThatGuyThisGuy
Demon
 
Posts: 850
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:58 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Questions and World setting

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest