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Speculation: Why did the Hermionnes come to the Overworld?

Speculation: Why did the Hermionnes come to the Overworld?

Postby IronSofa » Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:35 pm

Speculation Thread: What do you think caused the Hermionnes to come to the Drowtales Overworld?

TL;DR on the bottom

Alright folks, since everything in the Underworld is tumbling down faster than Jack and Jill on the hill right now. I want to take this opportunity to ask for to put on your Wild Mass Guessing hats on for a moment (it can be anything, I prefer a newspaper hat myself), and address a topic that’s been brewing in my head for quite some time, and I want to ask and console with the great scholars and intellects (and I truly mean that with the highest respect) of the Drowtales forum. Why did the Hermionnes come to the Drowtales Overworld?

It’s an extremely vague question, I know. Little is known about the hairy liver spotted warmongers that a ton of more questions are needed to be asked before we can answer the original question, but again even those questions can’t be answered because after all this is Drowtales not Hermionnetales. However working with limited information is the fun of Wild Mass Guessing.

Before we get started I would like to provide SAUCE (sources) for those who want to get in on this topic but aren’t too informed on the subject, or just to help refresh an avid reader’s knowledge (we can only learn and retain so much at once, time has a way of eroding and distorting your memory). Also if I missed anything of importance that pertains to the Hermionnes or something that would be helpful to the discussion PM me with a link to the SAUCE and I’ll edit it into this post to help keep everyone in the loop and not have to scroll through posts to find a line of dialogue in a page, or something the creators posted that could shed some light on the Hermionnes. Help a brother out arming scholars with knowledge folks; it’ll make things easier for everyone.

SAUCE

Pre-time skip:
Inciting Aggression : [Ch.20, P.13]
Place of Origin and Religion : [Ch.20, P.14]
Haltonreibe Stands Alone : [Ch. 20, P.15]

Post time skip:
Encroaching upon Drow Colonies : [Ch.34, P.5].
200 Years of Conquest by Sword and Faith : [Ch.37, P.16], [Ch.37, P.17].
Failed Siege of Ys [Ch.44, P.11-12,19]: [Ch.44, P.11], [Ch.44, P.12], [Ch.44, P.19].
Raiding Party! [Chapter 44, P.38-64]: First page onward, [Chapter 44, P.38]

Wikia: Goblins

Iron, Faith, and Liver Spots: A History
I’m going to provide a brief summary of Hermionne history in the Drowtales known Overworld to help out anyone who doesn’t want to read all of those comic pages (if you have any suggestions, advice, or qualms about this history PM me!). The Ill’hardro merchant Ileh’gro [Ch.20, P.14] states the Hermionnes originate from across the sea and arrived to the Drowtales Overworld around 200 years ago with a keen knowledge in Iron Age tech, and have been aggressively converting local Halme city states to their xenophobic apocalyptic religion and crushing said city states with an iron fist. The message of their religion as described by Ileh'gro is as follows: "They preach to all the Halme settlements that the mist bears evil omens, and devils lurk within. A tale of doom that foretells the mist covering even the farthest reaches of the world, bringing an end to Halmes and Hermiones alike." The Halme Kai [Ch. 20, P.14] confirms Ileh’gro’s claims and also mentions the Hermiones: “ …has pushed against all the independent cities [Halme city states] for a long time. Half the cities fell to armed conquest, and the rest are too influenced by corruption and religion [I am assuming the Hermionnes religion] to remain independent anymore.” Kyo’nne post time skip also confirms that the Hermionnes arrived 200 years ago via boats but says they sailed across an ocean instead of a sea [I’ll address this issue later down this post and in my theory which I'll post at a later day], and: “ …brought boats filled with war engines, cut bare entire forests and conquered every Halme city state one after the other for the last two centuries.” [Ch.37, P.16]. Kyo’nne further mentions that even the Halme Elf-butcher kingdom of Nagyescsed fell to the Hermionnes via sword and fire, and that the Hermionnes are encroaching the wasteland south of the great wall. Considering Kyo’nne mentions the Hermionnes: “ …come south of the great wall in countless numbers to forage into the wastelands.” We can also assume that at this time Haltonreibe has been felled and has been made a vassal state, occupied, or destroyed [Ch.37, P.16]. As of Ch. 37 this leaves the Hermionnes as the uncontested non-fae rulers north of the Great Wall on the Overworld, for now. Kyo’nne [Ch.37, P.16] and Sara’s [Ch.34, P.5] claims that the Hermionnes have been encroaching upon Drow colonies are also confirmed with the Hermionnes attempt to besiege Ys [Ch.44, P.11-12,19], and the Hermionne rescue attempt disguised as a raiding party [Ch.44, P.38-64].

Sea or Ocean?:
In an average english conversation people more often than not use sea and ocean interchangeably, which is of course fine for everyday conversation. However, this creates an issue regarding geography, logistics, or in this case world building and creating theories. I’m sure it was a minor oversight, but it is an inconsistency in the lore, so we’re just going to have to deal with it for the time being. To put it simply, a sea is a lot smaller than an ocean [i.e. compare the size of Atlantic or Pacific Ocean to the Mediterranean or Black Sea]. Keep that in mind when you’re thinking/writing about your theories.

Useful Stuff:
Kudos! Goes to Doom Chinchilla, and Dalvyserran for piecing together this baller map:
Map of the known Overworld thus far.

Also check this thread out for more Drowtales map related needs:
viewtopic.php?f=88&t=17036

With the SAUCE and historical context taken care of I would also like to remind everyone when you’re writing your theories to stay on topic and not let this thread derail into another Midnight Orthorbbae Verbal Shankfest: Goblins vs. Elves Edition. That seems to happen a lot when someone mentions a Goblin race around here for some reason. So good luck and happy guessing!

TL;DR: Tell me your theory on why the Hermionnes came to the Overworld, it doesn’t have to be fancy. Read Iron, Faith, and Liver Spots: A History if you don’t want to read the comic pages I posted. Know the difference between a sea and an ocean. Be nice to each other, and have fun. Remember scholars, this is a speculation thread, and anything not mentioned in the text or by the creators is not canon until proven otherwise.
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Re: Speculation: Why did the Hermionnes come to the Overworl

Postby ThatGuyThisGuy » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:32 am

Personally i seriously think that the Hermiones are in cahoots with the Light Elves. The original expansion into the continent where Drowtales takes place was probably of their own volition but somewhere along the line the Light Elves saw them as a way to stop the Darklings from returning to the surface and influenced them somehow as in they are mostly responsible for their current religion and may be in contact with whatever leaders the Hermiones have and are directing them in a war against the Drow. The Light Elves are probably helping the Hermiones someway be it just providing information or more tangible aid as in providing Supplies, Land, or even some kind of technology likely just enough to set them up to stop the Drow.

This could be part of a larger conspiracy against the drow because as i said in the wild speculation thread"We know there are still some remaining dwarven lands be they in uninhabitable to the drow parts of the underworld or in areas that haven't seen large drow presence but the only confirmation about how much of dwarven civilization was destroyed was just the places now inhabited by drow and that leaves possibility for other kingdoms that weren't destroyed by the drow they probably experienced some attacks but they where stronger then the other dwarven kingdoms or the drow attacks against them where weaker then those that destroyed the other kingdoms or they made some kind of treaty with the drow.

The thing that got me on this train of thought was while noticing those raider dwarves of the destroyed kingdoms in the earlier chapters they sure seemed to have had quite a bit of ammunition since they where firing consistently from a far off position meaning they where willing to expend lots of ammo but they are supposed to be in hiding how would they get so much? The answer is simple they are being supplied by other dwarven kingdoms who wish to strike back against the drow but not openly for fear of reprisal or nullification of an agreement and so they supply these raiders with as much equipment as possible so they can hopefully have a better chance fighting back. Going from this what would they see in the hermiones? Potential enemies of the drow who don't want the territory the drow live in and by extension the dwarves territory, but wish to destroy the drow or at least make them a non threat now this sounds like something dwarves would at least try to help succeed someway even by just providing them information about the drow, but they may have a more vested interest and even provide weapons or technology that would be useful in a war or even supplies or raw resources or if things are going really well take part in the fighting themselves. The same applies for light elves as well since allot of the potential i ascribed that the dwarves could see in hermiones applies to them as well."

This is making allot of assumptions and what scant evidence i have is at best circumstantial but i think its true to some degree.
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Re: Speculation: Why did the Hermionnes come to the Overworl

Postby Junglefowl26 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:44 am

I don't think so - the light elf leaders seemed to be worried about the Hermoine as well, since they listed the Hermoine as a threat when Chiri was there along with the rise of the Drow, the Halme madness (the elf blood thing presumably), and the Kadingira - a group we know nothing about other than they are fighting with the Hermoine for control of the continent.
http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=7488

Anyway, there are some other sources of information to consider. First of all is the audiobooks, specifically Fenn's journal.
There we find out that Hermoinne religion is similar to Halme religion, at least that both have a myth that the gods raised a great wall to save their favored children and smote the elves behind them...only that the Hermoinne religion puts the Halmes south of the mythical wall as well, and thus just as cursed and wicked. We also find out that they had sacked Haltonreibe mutliple times, and both times made a point of burning down libraries. They especially hate Haltonreibe because it is welcoming to elves "both white and black."

Additionally, there was Kern and Kite's roleplaying adventure, which took place during the timeskip. The pcs of that party where in a small Halme city-state, Hermunbé, caught between Niwaecer and Nagyescsed. They set up an arrange marriage between prince Prince Theofeld häl Hermunbé and a Hermoinne princess, but instead it was a trick and things went red wedding.

The preview for Mistfolk....at least one of the versions of it anyway...that was in a contest with Mythes and We Are Ferals featured the same event, and we got a bit on the backstory of the Hermoinne ruler, Aiden, who killed his parents to take the throne, in the name of "freeing mankind."
http://www.drowtales.com/nextserie/

Also, I remember asking Kern what Hermoinne thought of orcs and ferals...but I can't remember his answer. Sorry.
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Re: Speculation: Why did the Hermionnes come to the Overworl

Postby ThatGuyThisGuy » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:51 am

I don't know much about the AudioBooks because for some reason my computer won't play them so i don't know anything about what they say besides what i heard from other peoples so if you could summarize the important points it would be most helpful.

Also to your example of the Vanir seeing the Hermiones as a threat its almost certain their are other factions of Light Elves and the Vanir could be out of loop on the whole manner.

The whole bit on similarity between their religions does push my theory in a knot although its mentioned Hermiones actually come from over the ocean and that their lands are supposed to be pretty obscure and all sources seem to imply the Elves didn't go far beyond their continent in large concentrations, but its very possible that at some time the Elves where in the lands of Hermiones ancestors in large concentrations but these lands still would have been fairly isolated from the catastrophes(They probably would have known something was up but they would experience few of the effects probably to little for it to be a world ending event to them) of the mainland so the whole bit about their religion including the whole catastrophe similar to the Halmes tales is a bit suspect. Unless there is more to this then has been revealed be it that the Elves and the catastrophes where more wide spread then implied or that Hermiones where once on the main continent a long time ago and still have memories of those times.

Hermiones hating Haltontreibe because the welcome "Elves both White and Black" does complicate things quite a bit as it implies they hate Elves in general although it could possibly mean that they hate Haltrontreibe because they open themselves open to black elves and that opening up to white elves are relatively meaningless and its just that they open themselves up to both or that most Hermiones are out of loop or that the Light consider the loathing of the majority to be inconsequential to their plan. Then again i don't know much about the specific context of this quote since i can't listen to the audiobooks.

Mistfolk is outside of canon that and what the Prince says with his wish to free mankind can have a dual meaning and could be why he killed his father as its possible he found out about his dealings with Light Elves and wishes to throw off their influence.

To put it simply this is my head canon and i think there is some evidence to this theory and there is reasonable doubt to the weight of the counter evidence so until more things come into my understanding i think this is possible but not particularly likely.
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Re: Speculation: Why did the Hermionnes come to the Overworl

Postby AnoP » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:01 am

There is also a somewhat expanded worldmap here. Although this is not necessarily of direct relevance to the Hermione thing. *hmmm*
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Re: Speculation: Why did the Hermionnes come to the Overworl

Postby ThatGuyThisGuy » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:08 am

Well if that place to the far northwest is their ancestral land then my bit about them likely not knowing about the full scope of the moons age catastrophes can go down the shoot.
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Re: Speculation: Why did the Hermionnes come to the Overworl

Postby Dalvyserran » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:45 pm

If it helps, in Relic Hunters we invaded a Hermionne fort that had both Hermionne and halmes as troops, although it looked like the halmes were of lesser status. To my knowledge, the fort was built near an Illhar'dro colony they destroyed, where a lone survivor was found beaten and tortured for amusement.

The drow city of Hel (which is often jokingly referred to) is located on the same continent as the valkyries that the Hermionne worship. There was a concept of a valkyrie drawn for mythes but you'll have to dig through the news posts for it.

It would make sense that a faction of Hermionne have deals made with the light elves, given that they have a similar Norse mythology theme. Vanir are the pantheon of gods who fought the Aesir majority and lost--light elves refer to the dark elves as Aesir in DT. They are ruled by a Vala, which in Norse tales are female soothsayers and mystics that guide the people. Hermionne are an invasive, marauding force that made a kingdom in the north through conquest of lesser city-states, just like ancient nordics did to the Anglo-Saxons, Gauls, Spanish and so on . There is a definite them here, if light elves thought they could encourage the herms to raid drow lands, knowing that the dark elves are returning.

Also, just now I'm noticing that there are winged statues of women in the Vala's throne room. Valkyrie?
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Re: Speculation: Why did the Hermionnes come to the Overworl

Postby ThatGuyThisGuy » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:21 pm

I asked Kern on The livetream about some of the questions here. Kadingira is supposed to be the Weird Naga or some kind of Demon Naga who features in daydream who leads a group of naga who have been into expansion for sometime and originally they where supposed to feature in the surface Arc and Faen was supposed to go there specifically but they were cut for time. I also asked him about the Hermione view on Orcs, Light Elves, Dwarves, and Ferals and he said Burn, Kill, Purge, and Takeover so theirs that but those could however be just the common view devoid of the machinations of their leaders.
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Re: Speculation: Why did the Hermionnes come to the Overworl

Postby Junglefowl26 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:45 pm

The drow city of Hel (which is often jokingly referred to) is located on the same continent as the valkyries that the Hermionne worship. There was a concept of a valkyrie drawn for mythes but you'll have to dig through the news posts for it.

I didn't know that was confirmed. I mean, the audiobooks said they were on the other continent and one of the Mistfolk stories hinted that Hel was was the reason they hated elves so much (or, at least Fenn wondered why they would hate drow when they were from a different continent), but I didn't know they were confirmed to be connected.

I also didn't know that Hermionne worshiped valkyries. Where was that? Livestream.

Anyway, Mythes and their valkyries can be seen in the link I posted above. Though their worshipers in that story were giant blue humans named after the spirits of the honored dead from Norse mythology.

I asked Kern on The livetream about some of the questions here. Kadingira is supposed to be the Weird Naga or some kind of Demon Naga who features in daydream who leads a group of naga who have been into expansion for sometime and originally they where supposed to feature in the surface Arc and Faen was supposed to go there specifically but they were cut for time. I also asked him about the Hermione view on Orcs, Light Elves, Dwarves, and Ferals and he said Burn, Kill, Purge, and Takeover so theirs that but those could however be just the common view devoid of the machinations of their leaders.

Ah - many, many thanks for that.

So I guess the followers of Kadingira are "the snake" that creeped out the Highland Raiders so much.

And they are connected to the Naga from DayDream? Interesting, since those Naga seem fairly sympathetic. Unless I am thinking of the wrong ones.

There is also a somewhat expanded worldmap here. Although this is not necessarily of direct relevance to the Hermione thing. *hmmm*

Very cool - thanks.

....Though I can't read half the stuff. Frudewok Tribe? Mercive Federation? I wonder what that city by the desert is as well.

Man, there is so much interesting worldbuilding going on...shame we won't be able to see much of it, with the story of drow internal politics requiring so much time and pages. Oh well, it is a great story. I just always get so curious about blank spots on a map.
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Re: Speculation: Why did the Hermionnes come to the Overworl

Postby ThatGuyThisGuy » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:25 pm

Junglefowl26 wrote:
The drow city of Hel (which is often jokingly referred to) is located on the same continent as the valkyries that the Hermionne worship. There was a concept of a valkyrie drawn for mythes but you'll have to dig through the news posts for it.

I didn't know that was confirmed. I mean, the audiobooks said they were on the other continent and one of the Mistfolk stories hinted that Hel was was the reason they hated elves so much (or, at least Fenn wondered why they would hate drow when they were from a different continent), but I didn't know they were confirmed to be connected.

I also didn't know that Hermionne worshiped valkyries. Where was that? Livestream.

Anyway, Mythes and their valkyries can be seen in the link I posted above. Though their worshipers in that story were giant blue humans named after the spirits of the honored dead from Norse mythology.


I asked Kern about them(Big Blue guys and the Valkyries) on the livestream but he wouldn't answer the question so its likely they are important and that Kern have something planned for them that he doesn't really want to reveal so early.
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Re: Speculation: Why did the Hermionnes come to the Overworl

Postby AnoP » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:17 am

Junglefowl26 wrote:.Though I can't read half the stuff. Frudewok Tribe? Mercive Federation? I wonder what that city by the desert is as well.

I believe it's Feudanoc tribes, Merove federation (there's something about a Ferovan here, so that might be related), and the city on the western edge of the wastelands is the Kadingira. *hmmm*

There's also the Northern Kag something . That's the only one I can't read. A world map might actually be something I want to commission, if that's allowed. *hmmm* I think it might already exist , so we'll see anyway .
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Re: Speculation: Why did the Hermionnes come to the Overworl

Postby Junglefowl26 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:25 am

AnoP wrote:
Junglefowl26 wrote:.Though I can't read half the stuff. Frudewok Tribe? Mercive Federation? I wonder what that city by the desert is as well.

I believe it's Feudanoc tribes, Merove federation (there's something about a Ferovan here, so that might be related), and the city on the western edge of the wastelands is the Kadingira. *hmmm*

There's also the Northern Kag something . That's the only one I can't read. A world map might actually be something I want to commission, if that's allowed. *hmmm* I think it might already exist , so we'll see anyway .

Aw, the Merovians?
http://drowtales.deviantart.com/art/Mer ... -289330742
Interesting, they were in Mythes fighting the giant blue dudes and Valkyries.

I wonder if the Feudanoc tribes are connected to the Noz in anyway. If I remember correctly, there was a Relic Hunter mission where you had to loot a ruin before the place was overrun by migrating Noz.

I didn't mean Kagingira, I meant the big desert to the far south. Thanks for the readings though.

Agreed on both counts for the map.

ThatGuyThisGuy wrote:
I asked Kern about them(Big Blue guys and the Valkyries) on the livestream but he wouldn't answer the question so its likely they are important and that Kern have something planned for them that he doesn't really want to reveal so early.

Ah, interesting. I wasn't expecting them to be important.

That would be an interesting game changer if turned out the Hermoine were backed up by flying, laser shooting armored women. :V

Course, it might just be that he still plans to get around to Mythes eventually, even if probably in a different form like how We Are Ferals ended up.
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Re: Speculation: Why did the Hermionnes come to the Overworl

Postby AnoP » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:00 am

Junglefowl26 wrote:I didn't mean Kagingira, I meant the big desert to the far south. Thanks for the readings though.

That one is Nuqrah Shareh.
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Re: Speculation: Why did the Hermionnes come to the Overworl

Postby ThatGuyThisGuy » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:12 am

Looked a bit around on deviantart and found this http://drowtales.deviantart.com/art/Crow-289172840 I am pretty sure its one of the guys from the mythes. Not to much of note besides that he wears plate armor and that he has icy blue veins which may indicate that those blue guys are the result of some gradual process that happens to regular men.

http://drowtales.deviantart.com/art/Valkyrie-289660887 Picture of the Valkyrie Pretty much nothing for me to note.
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Re: Speculation: Why did the Hermionnes come to the Overworl

Postby Junglefowl26 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:37 am

AnoP wrote:
Junglefowl26 wrote:I didn't mean Kagingira, I meant the big desert to the far south. Thanks for the readings though.

That one is Nuqrah Shareh.

Ah, thanks for that.

I thought that was a more tropical region, like Nuwa.

On that note, I wonder what the terrain is like right above Chel. Well, it gets enough rain to completely wreck the Skyhole at least.

ThatGuyThisGuy wrote:Looked a bit around on deviantart and found this http://drowtales.deviantart.com/art/Crow-289172840 I am pretty sure its one of the guys from the mythes. Not to much of note besides that he wears plate armor and that he has icy blue veins which may indicate that those blue guys are the result of some gradual process that happens to regular men.

http://drowtales.deviantart.com/art/Valkyrie-289660887 Picture of the Valkyrie Pretty much nothing for me to note.

Indeed. So tantalizing these concept arts are, but there isn't really a lot to go on.
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