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Dark Elf Height

Re: Dark Elf Height

Postby Obyren » Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:26 am

Obsidian Agent wrote:What Kaiser meant was that DT isn't what we'd call "cartoony". You can have cartoons that aren't cartoony - like ExoSquad, Batman: The Animated Series, Gargoyles, Avatar: The Last Airbender, and God only knows how many anime. Examples of "cartoony" cartoons would be Ed, Edd, n' Eddy, Jimmy Neutron, SpongeBob SquarePants, etc.


If by "cartoony" you mean "exaggerated" or "impossible", then I would say that Drowtales is cartoony.

As for Obsidian Agent's post, one side pretends that all Western cartoons are like Spongbob Squarepants or South Park. The other side pretends that all Japanese cartoons are either porn or vehicles to sell merchandise. And yet, neither the West at large or Japan at large takes cartoons more seriously than the other or sees cartoons as being for adults more than the other.
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Re: Dark Elf Height

Postby wolfdancer95 » Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:38 am

AnoP wrote:
Dalvyserran wrote:I am not sure what trying to apply real world physics to DT will achieve.

Nothing really . It's just fun to do .


That reminds me, would the gravity of the planet explain their height? Something to do with their moons affecting fae more so then other races, would it be viable to factor that into the debate?
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Re: Dark Elf Height

Postby AnoP » Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:06 am

Obsidian Agent wrote:If it was the moons' gravity, all the races would be affected pretty much equally.

Actually it would only need to be 2/3rds of the gravity of earth . Stated here earlier . The moon is 1/6th earths gravity. *hmmm*
Not to mention the fact that the planet would likely be VERY volcanic.

Why ? Whilst a lot of the stuff I've read does suggest that even very small planets and satellites are potentially volcanic, nothing I've read suggests that they're more volcanic just because of that. *hmmm*
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Re: Dark Elf Height

Postby Kaiser » Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:11 am

Not to mention any planet with nine moons would have absolutely absurd tides that would either be measured in hundreds of feet or be extremely complex to the point that going out for a joy ride on your sailboat in the harbor would qualify as a dangerous voyage. But, this is pretty obviously just another thing Kern did because it looked cool, so spouting off more physics is just beating a dead horse at this point.
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Re: Dark Elf Height

Postby TheJackinati275 » Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:31 am

Dokkalfar are Dokkalfar sized becouse Kern want's Dokkalfar to be nine feet tall
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Re: Dark Elf Height

Postby AnoP » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:47 am

Obsidian Agent wrote:However, since there is no way that actually could happen with their respective masses, it's irrelevant.

Probably within the roche lmit given their size in the sky.
bsolutely absurd tides that would either be measured in hundreds of feet

That would depend on how close the moons were though . Although they can only be so far away , and arranging them in such a way that they would retain orbital stability would likely want to use as much of the available orbit as possible .
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Re: Dark Elf Height

Postby ree » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:41 pm

I'm loving the recent story arcs, but speaking of height, the recent change in how body proportions are drawn is incredibly visually offputting :(

Snadhya used to be drawn as slightly petite compared to other characters, and had relatively realistic proportions (for a comic character). ch 44 p 32

Now she's the tallest non-Val'Sargh, and drawn as just a tiny head and huge breasts glued directly onto legs so long they stop making visual sense as body parts. ch 46 p 116, ch 46 p 145 Like, if you cover the bottom 50% of everyone's legs they look the same way they used to a few chapters ago.
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Re: Dark Elf Height

Postby django » Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:52 pm

Its probably because the pages are updated everyday, and its just slip ups.
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Re: Dark Elf Height

Postby Dalvyserran » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:03 pm

Snadhya'rune is shorter than Mel'arnach
Snadhya and Sarv'swati are about the same height (?) because Sarv'swati is taller than Khaless
Quain'tana is taller than Mel and Zala'ess, so by virtue taller than Snadhya and Sarv.
Zala'ess is likely shorter than Snadhya

Young colony-born differ I guess. Araa'toskr is shorter than Snadhya. Ydo is the same height as Snadhya.
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Re: Dark Elf Height

Postby Junglefowl26 » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:56 pm

I remember in Longest Wait that Sarv was described as only slightly taller than Zala and Snad, but something about her appearance makes her a more imposing figure that seems to tower over them. Possibly just because she wears armor often while Zala rarely does and Snad never does.
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Re: Dark Elf Height

Postby Ra'tatosk » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:07 pm

ree wrote:I'm loving the recent story arcs, but speaking of height, the recent change in how body proportions are drawn is incredibly visually offputting :(

Snadhya used to be drawn as slightly petite compared to other characters, and had relatively realistic proportions (for a comic character). ch 44 p 32

Now she's the tallest non-Val'Sargh, and drawn as just a tiny head and huge breasts glued directly onto legs so long they stop making visual sense as body parts. ch 46 p 116, ch 46 p 145 Like, if you cover the bottom 50% of everyone's legs they look the same way they used to a few chapters ago.

I think that Snad is trying for a shift in fashion. As in France after the fall of ancien-regime where the waist line soared up to just under the breasts. Quite plausible as she wants to make a revolution to dump the drow ancien-regime.
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Re: Dark Elf Height

Postby Gunbird » Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:29 pm

Dalvyserran wrote:I am not sure what trying to apply real world physics to DT will achieve. This is a place where large animals can fly, giant landmasses float with the gravitational pull of nine moons, and mist instantly change creatures' biological composition within a generation.


You got a point,but that won't stop anyone form discussing such things.

If they want to geek out, let them geek out. As long they don't start any fires, if you know what a mean.
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Re: Dark Elf Height

Postby Smokehammer » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:19 am

Junglefowl26 wrote:I remember in Longest Wait that Sarv was described as only slightly taller than Zala and Snad, but something about her appearance makes her a more imposing figure that seems to tower over them. Possibly just because she wears armor often while Zala rarely does and Snad never does.

The quality being eluded to is better known as "presence", and I doubt it has much to do with her armor and more to do with her being a legend and quiet. Anyway, on a side note-I once tried to figure out how beastly Sarv'swati is by measuring her overall proportions and found that in any given drawing it changes relative to her own height. So Im going to have to go with theyre fast drawings, sketched to show movement and gesture and convey a story rather than portray any particular character with great accuracy. Hell, men should all be smaller and less muscular than the women on average given they have reverse sexual dimorphism but thats not normally presented either unless Drow have a different contractile structure(perhaps hormonally influenced?) that allows women to carry higher fat to muscle ratio, yet remain the stronger sex. If thats the case, then its a foregone conclusion they can be as tall as they damn well please, since theyre not using the same biochemistry as us. However, as its a fantasy, sure...go with what ever makes you happy but realize that when you say "Tall Like Quain", you mean 3 meters to me.

Dont fall into the nit-picking out of boredom trap guys..its a bad road to go down, trust me XD
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Re: Dark Elf Height

Postby Dalvyserran » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:42 pm

Why are elves in this setting so tall? Because...

Image
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Re: Dark Elf Height

Postby Smokehammer » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:05 pm

Obsidian Agent wrote:First, when we see Mel pregnant (and later Zala faking to be pregnant), she has the same basic proportions of a pregnant human woman, implying that the infant-to-adult size ratio is about the same with elves as it is with humans. Now, the average human baby height is 21 inches (53.34 cm), and the average adult height is 66 inches (167.64 cm). Now, going by the average dark elf height on that chart - which, since Mel and Quain are the same height as dark elves - which says that they're 9 feet (108 inches) tall, we can do some simple math regarding the height ratios. 108 divided by 66 is 1.636363636 (repeating, of course). Multiply that by 21, and you get a height of 34 inches (or just under 3 feet) for an infant dokkalfar (dark elf women must have had REALLY wide hips to push something like that out - that's the equivalent of giving birth to a 2-year-old human).
Nope sorry Ob, this is a fallacy. IF everything is proportional, then everything is proportional. You cant have it both ways.

Now, this also comes into play when Ariel disguises herself as a human child in Nagyasced when the try to rescue Faen. Now, she was biologically 8 (chronologically 16) when that happened, and the average height of an 8-year-old girl is 50 inches (4'2"). Multiply 50 by 1.6363636, and you get around 81 inches. Or 6'9". In other words, there is NO WAY IN HELL ARIEL COULD HAVE PASSED FOR A HUMAN CHILD if that was accurate.

And even if average dokkalfar height was 7'4", that's a 1.33333-to-1 height ratio with an average human. So, kid Ariel would have been 5'6" then. Still kinda pushing it, but at least within the realm of possibility, as if she'd hit a growth spurt early.
Well..... Ariel can shapeshift, and as we saw when Kalki cut her arm off, it is possible she's a hell of a lot smaller than she appears to be, so Im not sure Ariel would qualify at her normal height as being average, which is how you could reconcile her apparent lack of height compared to Vae(though honestly I think its just pre-height retcon drawings). Another factor might be that perhaps elves have a different growth cycle? Another thing you should consider as well, is that the longer Dark Elves stay below, the smaller and smaller their descendants become even amongst the upper class who dont have nutrition issues. They also get smaller based off generation (usually). There are of course outliers to this -Quain being a noted one, but we have to keep in mind she's an extreme, not a norm.

And this is before we get into the fact that there is no way anyone who was 9 feet tall could fit into the king's bath tub in Nagyasced.
This is another one of those, "before the retcon on height" issues.

And that the Hermionne appeared to be less than a foot shorter than current Ariel (and in fact, about the same size as Shan'naal). And the fact that Grey and Sara appeared to be about the same height. And countless other examples. It honestly feels like a failed attempt to make the elves "Super Special Snowflakes!1111".
Hermionne are supposed to be hella super tall given theyre half Noz. And if you look at the modern chart, the Noz are roughly the same height as male Drowussu. There's also nothing stopping those particular Herms from being on the tall side of their ancestry.

Not to mention that anyone that tall would be very easy to trip, and a simple fall would probably cause severe injuries. And I could go on and on, but do I really have to, at this point?
This is another bullshit point Ob. You'd grow used to that type of locomotion and be no better or worse off balance wise, and your bone density and muscle mass would increase to compensate in order to get that tall in the first place (Ano's & my original argument that the sickly people who make it to nearly that height can't really compare), thus you wouldnt take more "severe injuries" from falling.

Are their leverage issues, vascular function & diffusion vs gravity problems, blah blah blah? Yes, theoretically. - But that's just it, until a totally healthy humanoid is enlarged to 9 ft, we wont know if it can or cant happen, and what the repercussions would be. Hell man, I still want to make crush and penetration tests on molded ceramic armor before I believe the Sharen could get away with that shit, but alas...

I dont think it was done for reasons of "special snowflake-ism" either. Mostly I think it was to be very anti D&D, in which Drow are basically pigmies. It also helps with the other species since as I pointed out earlier, if you are correct, Ferals arent much bigger than large domestic cats, and the dwarves are gnomes, Halmes, Emberi and Orcs are pigmies etc. Shit if you want to get into the realm of scientifically improbable what about 10-11 fully sentient species evolving on one moon? The whole fantasy multispecies fruitfest has always grated on my nerves more than fantastical heights ever could.

Personally my original point in this thread still stands. As cartoons that constantly change proportion to themselves, and that do not fit within the constraints of their own species (males being said but not shown to be weaker and smaller) I think we're barking up a strange tree out of boredom. They will be whatever height the author wants them to be, on any given day -because yeah
Dalvyserran wrote: Magic!
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