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semi-Silly Question

semi-Silly Question

Postby Metzger » Sun May 25, 2014 6:39 pm

Alright, this question has been bugging me for some time, so I thought it was time to ask it.
How would Drow(DT) react if they suddenly found a gate/passage/stargate/rift in Space/time that lead to the Underdark and the Drow(DnD) there?
I must admit that I do not know much about DnD nor the drows of DND, other than they are often Chaotic evi.

would there be war? would trading routes form or would they be so different from each others (from a philosophical standpoint, according to what I know, there are few if any biological differences) that they would simply choose to ignore the other part?
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Re: semi-Silly Question

Postby Metzger » Sun May 25, 2014 7:29 pm

what of their military differences? the DT drows, while being locked in a devastating civil war, most units seem to be able to "shut up and follow orders" and organize themselves in an united front, but with the DnD drow, I fail to see them agreeing on even the smallest of matters
Last edited by Metzger on Mon May 26, 2014 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: semi-Silly Question

Postby Dalvyserran » Sun May 25, 2014 8:30 pm

That's actually a good question.

In DnD there are actually varied levels of evil drow and chaotic drow. Pre-4E you had vhaeraun's followers who were more or less neutral evil, then you have Eilistraee's people who are chaotic good. Then you have the Lolth-dominated cities, clearly chaotic evil. Ghaunadaur just wants to assimilate everybody.

DT drow are various levels of alignment that would generate a varied response. For example, Snadhya and the nids would be seen as masters of demons and respected by everyone except Eilistraee's people, but seen as dangerous unbelievers to lolthites.

Eilistraee would love to make alliances with DT drow except the tainted ones, and would probably send her followers to aid the Kyorls.

Lolth would goad her priestesses into trying to subjugate Chel, and would meet with considerable resistance (even with broken 3.5e spells from high level casters, but assume they are few and far between). Or Lolth might fancy the Belds & Send people to help the vloz, sharen, Sarghs and Nidraa to create more chaos.

Vhaeraun's men would probably try to ally with anyone who isn't dominated by women. They would actually make secret deals with jaaldarya men
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Re: semi-Silly Question

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Sun May 25, 2014 10:08 pm

Well, in first place, I'm 100 % sure they would fight. D&D drows can't help but antagonize everybody, even when it's bad for their own interests. As for DT drows, they are ready to expect the worst from other drows, and once they realized how twisted their far removed cousins are, they would exterminate any D&D drow they could find in their own world.

Who would win? Well, would D&D magic work in the DT world? And what about the opposite, would DT mana arts work in the D&D's world? The side who could use its native magic in the other world would win.

But, if D&D magic could work in the DT' world, D&D drows would be the least of the DT drow's worries. There are a bajizillon unholy horrors that could cross worlds and prey on the DT drow, from D&D dragons to Mindflayers to Beholders to Undead...etc. And if a single human wizard arrives to the DT world and teaches the Hermionnes arcane magic...oh boy!, the DT drow would go extinct before half a century.
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Re: semi-Silly Question

Postby Yriel » Sun May 25, 2014 11:20 pm

This is an interesting question, I think that what Dalvyserran said is pretty much spot on, the variety among DT drow would polarize the reactions of their D&D counterparts.

Lolth... well, she only wants to have everything and everyone at her feet, she would hardly tolerate unbelievers like all the DT drow are. So yeah, she would likely try to take Chel and any other DT cities by strength, or try to weaken them from the inside by lending their aid to certain factions, and then conquer them by strength.

I picture individuals like Kel'noz working with Vhaeraun's people, even forming secret organizations dedicated to the achievement of equality among genders for their race. Also reducing internal conflict so that the drow could use their whole strenght to return to their past glory.

Eilistraee would likely try to form alliances with most DT drow, in particular I picture her people as best buddies with the Illhar'Dro (they -and Mel too- make me immediately think about Eilistraee), because of how many of their ideals they share (desire for peace and coexistence, valuing freedom of self-expression and arts, especially dance and music). They would probably act as protectors of the drow living on the surface and work/fight to help build a future for their people.

[...]and would probably send her followers to aid the Kyorls.


Personally, I don't see her aiding the Kyorl inquisition, being open minded and tolerant as opposed to their close-mindedness. The redemption she wishes for the drow is all about freedom of choice, so -IMO- her followers would oppose tainting, but would not want to purge already tainted drow with fire**. They would welcome an alliance with the Vel'drowendar who want a change (like Kiel, or Chrys), and promote minimization of the seed effects through things like sealing armors, once they learn about it.


On a side note:
Lolth would goad her priestesses into trying to subjugate Chel, and would meet with considerable resistance (even with broken 3.5e spells from high level casters, but assume they are few and far between)

If DT drow found out how to make anti-magic fields, they would win hands down, as they would have the possibility of being immune to enemy firepower while slinging their own (I don't think that mana arts would be considered magic in D&D, rather as supernatural abilities, unaffected by AM fields IIRC).


**because, as far as I know, the 'official' version (i.e. the one widely known in-setting and the only one that most people know about) describes taint as a way to protect drow souls and amplify summoning capacities. It is not like actual demonic possession and does not force the tainted to go around doing evil stuff, so it would not be intrinsically harmful (at least that's what Snadhya wanted people to believe). Even if tainting was known for what it actually is (the time bomb thing), I guess that followers of Eilistraee would try their best to find a way to revert it before killing (although they would most likely fail at that).


Btw, don't mind me, just a long time lurker here.
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Re: semi-Silly Question

Postby Metzger » Mon May 26, 2014 4:30 pm

to put it simple: DT drows would most likely be better organized and have an over all better military (in terms of discipline, technology and magic/mana)

on the other hand, should DnD drow be able to punch first (and be organized themselves), it would hurt the DT drows a lot and force them to seek unorthodox allies, such as the goblin races/ferals, in order to achieve even a cease-fire.

While there are a few benevolent groups among the DnD drow, these would most likely not be able to stop the Lolth followers from attacking the DT drow.
Did I get it all right?
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Re: semi-Silly Question

Postby Yriel » Mon May 26, 2014 8:06 pm

Yes. Eilistraee's and Vhaeraun's people wouldn't be able to stop Lolth from attacking, or trying to cause damage, however they would likely try to oppose her and attempt to cooperate with the DT drow (assuming that the latter ''trusted'' them enough to accept an alliance).

On the matter of who would win, I think that on the long run DT drow are going have the upper hand. They would have a somewhat easy time adapting to D&D dark elves' magic (their biggest weapon), because of the above mentioned factions that would gladly help the DT drow against Lolth, including teaching them what magic is and how to counter it. There's also the question about whether DT demons are able to 'eat' magical energies, in which case spellcasters would be pretty much useless.

Furthermore, Mana Arts are way more diffused and available than arcane/divine spellcasting is in the D&D world (even soldiers can use a focus, while casters capable of posing an actual threat are not that many) and don't have a strict daily limit on number of uses, which is another clear advantage except maybe in skirmishes.

Then there is the fact that Lolth's drow are prone to infighting even in the most stupid situations, and -as far as I can tell- are way less disciplined than DT soldiers, despite their martial skills. This would be another major case for their eventual defeat (as it happens even in the D&D worlds, where during millennia of existence the drow managed to accomplish very little with their conquest attempts -or in terms of technological developemnt, if we compare them and the DT drow-)
Last edited by Yriel on Tue May 27, 2014 1:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: semi-Silly Question

Postby Hellsion » Tue May 27, 2014 1:11 am

if someone made a fan-fic about this I'd totally read it as long as it was in a history book format.
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Re: semi-Silly Question

Postby Junglefowl26 » Tue May 27, 2014 2:56 am

I think the DT drow would have an advantage, in that they work together a lot better than normal drow.

I know that sounds silly, given the events of the comic, but even having concepts of clan and family loyalty makes DT to be pretty different, to say nothing of Ariel getting promoted without murdering her superior for it.
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Re: semi-Silly Question

Postby SFI » Tue May 27, 2014 6:49 am

Obsidian Agent wrote:
Hellsion wrote:if someone made a fan-fic about this I'd totally read it as long as it was in a history book format.


I'd write it, if only I wasn't busy with my own fanfic which crosses DT over with Star Trek, Diablo, and Command & Conquer.


And I just suck at cross-overs >_<
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Re: semi-Silly Question

Postby Metzger » Thu May 29, 2014 9:42 pm

to modify my theoretical scenario; what if a group of a hundred Lolth worshipping DnD drow suddenly ended up in Chel? Would they be able to fit in? would they be smart enough about the whole backstab everyone in order to avoid the ire from the Great clans? or would they just be killed to death by nearby Kyorls? (all DnD drows have red eyes, right?)
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Re: semi-Silly Question

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Thu May 29, 2014 10:43 pm

Since they would be extra-careful, extra-paranoid, and very respectful of anybody who looked powerful, they would probably survive.

Problem is, in the long term they would start to conspire and backstab people and gloat about it, and eventually Chelians would learn to hate them. In most D&D worlds, drow could easily get along with humans, make business with them and get power over human society if they were able to behave for a couple centuries, time enough for humans to forget that drows are assholes and accept them, but they just can't stop acting like moustachio-twirling villains.

I once read an european comic, Chronicles of Mesene, in which drow have already destroyed all light elven kingdoms and slaughtered most light elves in the land of Mesene. They are backstabbing traitorous assholes just like any other drow, but when they travel to the surface they endeavour to act civilized and polite, so humans accept them and treat them as equals. They are still plotting to take over the land, mind you, but they are doing it the smart way, forming alliances with humans kings and slowly gathering power. That is the way D&D drows would act if they weren't crazy.
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Re: semi-Silly Question

Postby Jiharn » Sat May 31, 2014 3:47 am

It's easy to exaggerate how chaotic the DnD drow tend to be. They definitely backstab to get ahead, yes, but they wouldn't do it if they think it'd mean they would lose overall. And from what I recall, the lower classes among them were more likely to form beneficial alliances with each other that weren't broken at earliest opportunity, since they didn't have the resources to really survive in the city all by their lonesome. In the Forgotten Realms, at least, I believe there's a trade city Sshamath that's governed by a conclave of drow sorcerers that cooperate for general economic development thanks to sheer pragmatism.

Speaking of sorcerers, whether DnD magic worked in the DT setting would probably be a major question regarding balance of power if a fight broke out. The top tier dnd spells can do a lot more widespread damage than most of the magic we've seen in DT.
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Re: semi-Silly Question

Postby Yriel » Sat May 31, 2014 10:06 am

Jiharn wrote:It's easy to exaggerate how chaotic the DnD drow tend to be. They definitely backstab to get ahead, yes, but they wouldn't do it if they think it'd mean they would lose overall. And from what I recall, the lower classes among them were more likely to form beneficial alliances with each other that weren't broken at earliest opportunity, since they didn't have the resources to really survive in the city all by their lonesome.
In the Forgotten Realms, at least, I believe there's a trade city Sshamath that's governed by a conclave of drow sorcerers that cooperate for general economic development thanks to sheer pragmatism.


In Forgotten Realms drow have variety. Sshamath is even a kind of 'open city', but the influence of Lolth's clergy is very limited there. Then you have factions like Eilistraee's and Vhaeraun's people, who promote styles of life wildly different than the default one. Point is that those dark elves are free from Lolth's thumb and would probably even support DT drow in an eventual crossover.

However- reducing the scope to Lolth's pawns- they are mostly brainwashed fanaticists (and their portrayal is often that of a one-note parody of a race). Yes, the lower castes can't afford to plot as much as nobles and priestesses, but as soon as the opportunity to gain status presents itself, they will try to catch it, even if it had the potential to compromise a greater achievement for their people. For example, you have the siege of Mithral Hall (a dwarven fortress), which sees an assassination attempt against the drow leader and general, organized by one of her rivals. I mean, that's kind of stupid.
After Lolth made the dark elves her playthings, in millennia of existence they have never actually managed to achieve anything significant, and -despite their might- have always been stuck in a bunch of underground cities, while being unable to extend their influence outside those (and also while being unable to experience significant cultural or technological growth, due to their indoctrinated mentality)
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Re: semi-Silly Question

Postby Dalvyserran » Sat May 31, 2014 10:59 am

It's the chaotic neutral drow you should watch out for. The jarlaxle types that can gather a large group of disillusioned, gifted drow (like that psionic caster that makes dimension doors at the drop of a hat) and work their way into foreign societies. The ones that can go either way for the right price

In fact any non-lolthite can be a wild card, because they're not pants-on-head retarded with the chaotic evilness.
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