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Nether bombs and nether cannons.

Nether bombs and nether cannons.

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:23 pm

I have been wondering for some time...since the drow have mana bombs made out of super-charged stones, and they can seal demons into stones, and it has been explicitly said that a gem charged with too many demons can explode just like a mana bomb...

...how come nobody has had the idea of making nether-charged bombs and hurl them at the enemy? I think that a nether explosion would be quite more damaging than a mana blast, (if you try to block it with a mana shield, the nether blast will eat away your aura, and if you are exposed to the blast, you will be taking a bath in distilled demons) and what is more, the secondary damage when the released demons start to eat away the enemy's auras would be devastating.

What about mana cannons like the Balvakhara's or like the Illhar'do's? A cannon shooting nether blasts would be devastating.
Last edited by Doom Chinchilla on Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nether bombs and nether cannons.

Postby Shgon Dunstan » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:12 pm

Doom Chinchilla wrote:I have been wondering for some time...since the drow have mana bombs made out of super-charged stones, and they can seal demons into stones, and it has been explicitly said that a gem charged with too many demons can explode just like a mana bomb...

...how come nobody has had the idea of making nether-charged bombs and hurl them at the enemy? I think that a nether explosion would be quite more damaging than a mana blast, (if you try to block it with a mana shield, the nether blast will eat away your aura, and if you are exposed to the blast, will be taking a bath in distilled demons) and what is more, the secondary damage when the released demons start to eat away the enemy's auras would be devastating.

What about mana cannons like the Balvakhara's or like the Illhar'do's? A cannon shooting nether blasts would be devastating.

...Exactly when was it said that nether energy, in and of itself, eats mana? *ooo*

I mean... demons don't eat mana just by "touching" it, they... Well, "eat" it. ^^;

Nether-summons, AFAIK, aren't seen as better then classic summons because they "eat mana", but because they can't just be "eaten" by demons. Where as all a summoner needs to do to deal with a classic summons, is just open a nether-portal near it, and watch it get eaten alive(ish).

So... Not sure a "nether-cannon" would be any different in effect then a "mana-cannon", save for it's blast being red. *hmmm*

I might be completely mistaken though. :P
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Re: Nether bombs and nether cannons.

Postby Sonor Val'Illhar'dro » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:21 pm

That IS a good idea.

Afterall, the nether bolt Snadhya'rune and co did dissolve Diva's mana shield during the Longest Wait.
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Re: Nether bombs and nether cannons.

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:48 pm

Shgon Dunstan wrote:...Exactly when was it said that nether energy, in and of itself, eats mana? *ooo*

I mean... demons don't eat mana just by "touching" it, they... Well, "eat" it. ^^;


Nether and tainted mana has been shown to eat away mana shields (passing through them, dissolving them) and also going through solid matter.

But even if that had been retconned, your aura would be either receiving a blast of literal demon chuncks, or even of whole demons. At best, you would get heavily tainted due to the "nether snaphrel" encrusted on your own aura; at worst, the demons would start to eat your aura away right after crashing on it.
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Re: Nether bombs and nether cannons.

Postby SFI » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:16 am

That would suck SO much :@ Let's hope none of the Sharen figure that one out...

But wouldn't it still be dangerous to use those things? For the same money the supercharged things blows up to early and YOU and yours get demon-nommed, whereas with the conventional mana-bombs you can still shield if you're quick enough. That won't happen with those demon-bombs... Seems a bit too risky for me. *ooo*
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Re: Nether bombs and nether cannons.

Postby Ash'arion » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:39 am

I think the reason for that is the same reason that mana cannons and bombs are so rare in the first place: somebody has to manufacture them. And all drow tech that isn't just the latest generation of things that have been around since the Moons' Age, if not earlier, is purely experimental and highly dangerous. Also, Kern has stated on numerous occasions that nether cannot be used to power golem tech. I found out when I asked if there was some way to make weapons similar to the ones mentioned here, and engines powered by the demons' attempt to reach nether, in the same way that negatively-charged electricity powers things as it attempts to reach positively-charged cathodes.
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Re: Nether bombs and nether cannons.

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:54 am

Ash'arion wrote:I think the reason for that is the same reason that mana cannons and bombs are so rare in the first place: somebody has to manufacture them. And all drow tech that isn't just the latest generation of things that have been around since the Moons' Age, if not earlier, is purely experimental and highly dangerous.


I think the only clans technologically advanced enough to build mana cannons would be the Sharen, the Illhar'dro, the Balvakhara and maybe the Sullisin'rune and the Beldrobbaen, but the Sullisin'rune haven't invested in weapons until very recently, and the Beldrobbaen tend to be very conservative and also, they are in their twilight, living on remains of their glorious past rather than on new research.

Of those, the Illhar'do and Balvakhara are quite anti-demon, and are already the bosses of Nuqrah, so why bother with new demonic weapons?

The Sharen would be the most interested on developing such a weapon, but they seem more interested in developing their own summoning skills rather than building a weapon that anybody could use (they don't even use portable mana cannons).

But, the bombs, on the other hand? The demonic bombs are easy. Fill a gem until it is about to explode, throw it with a catapult or balista, and f**k a whole platoon. The Vlozz and Sharen at least should be using them.

SFI wrote:That would suck SO much :@ Let's hope none of the Sharen figure that one out...

But wouldn't it still be dangerous to use those things? For the same money the supercharged things blows up to early and YOU and yours get demon-nommed, whereas with the conventional mana-bombs you can still shield if you're quick enough. That won't happen with those demon-bombs... Seems a bit too risky for me. *ooo*


The entire point of bombs is to blow people away, so a bomb you can shield against if you perceive it's going to explode would be worthless (the enemy would do the same when you threw the bomb at them).

About the risk of the bomb exploding too soon and demons nomming you...the tainted drow wouldn't be at risk of being nommed, so they could use them. And I think it would be safer to use than going close to your enemies and opening a big nether gate there (you are exposing yourself to both your enemies and to demons when doing so). Using the bombs you can open a small nether gate, slowly fill the stone with demons, nice and safe, and throw the thing from afar without risking your bacon.

Ash'arion wrote:Also, Kern has stated on numerous occasions that nether cannot be used to power golem tech. I found out when I asked if there was some way to make weapons similar to the ones mentioned here, and engines powered by the demons' attempt to reach nether, in the same way that negatively-charged electricity powers things as it attempts to reach positively-charged cathodes.


So you can't use nether energy to power golems? That sucks.

Has Kern specified if it is completely impossible, or it just hasn't been discovered how to do it?.

Do you have a link to the post where he explains it?

Wait...does that mean that Kiel, Khaless and Umpus can't use their energy to power focis or golems?
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Re: Nether bombs and nether cannons.

Postby Ash'arion » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:13 am

Doom Chinchilla wrote:So you can't use nether energy to power golems? That sucks.

Has Kern specified if it is completely impossible, or it just hasn't been discovered how to do it?


He said it was impossible, and that was almost word for word the exact question I asked him. And no, I don't know how the Nids are powering their airship. Probably slaves.

Doom Chinchilla wrote:Do you have a link to the post where he explains it?

Wait...does that mean that Kiel, Khaless and Umpus can't use their energy to power focis or golems?


A) It was a long time back when I was fresh in PTP, and either a PM I've since deleted or a livestream. You can ask him today if you want.

B ) I'm not answering that.
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Re: Nether bombs and nether cannons.

Postby Shgon Dunstan » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:10 pm

Doom Chinchilla wrote:Wait...does that mean that Kiel, Khaless and Umpus can't use their energy to power focis or golems?

...Don't the Tainted still have Mana? *hmmm*

I mean, I know it's "red" but isn't it still "Mana" and not "Nether"?

...I sure don't remember any Drow ever saying "I sense(insert name here)'s Nether coming from that direction" or any mention of those Mana detectors not working on the Tainted. *ooo*
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Re: Nether bombs and nether cannons.

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:28 pm

Shgon Dunstan wrote:
Doom Chinchilla wrote:Wait...does that mean that Kiel, Khaless and Umpus can't use their energy to power focis or golems?

...Don't the Tainted still have Mana? *hmmm*

I mean, I know it's "red" but isn't it still "Mana" and not "Nether"?

...I sure don't remember any Drow ever saying "I sense(insert name here)'s Nether coming from that direction" or any mention of those Mana detectors not working on the Tainted. *ooo*


Kern said:

Sent: Today, 07:32
From: Kern
To: Doom Chinchilla
It'd be very hard for them to power thing up. However the host body still has mana about, activating something is possible. They cannot power a fire foci but a golem with battery full could be controlled.
Kiel can power a golem but doing so on the surface is an exercise into futility. It drain fast. Kau had a comment on that in the current chapter.
Nether is infested energy that is bound to disapear. See it as a flow that is filled with small worms eating said flow. Once the flow of energy is all eaten, the worms die. If the flow touch someone, the worms will cling to said person. Now infest that person and you get a new hive. I hope this analogy will explain things for you.


So it seems that nether is your regular mana with demons in it.

Tainted drow have demons inside them eating their mana all the time, but those demons are weak and under control, so they can do everything a regular drow can.

Full demons like Kiel and Khaless have bodies that still produce mana, but the demon has replaced their aura and consumes all the mana they produce. They can produce some mana, and would be able to activate machines, but not power those machines. That is, they would need a mana pool or the help or other drows to refill the batteries of whatever mana machine they were using.
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