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Drow and the incest.

Drow and the incest.

Postby Amberlight » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:20 am

It's rather simple with short-lived creatures like humans - the difference between different generations is too severe for one to be sexualy attracted to another, and in-breeding causes high risks of genetic deformations and diseases... and so on.
But Drow are (almost) immortal. Look at Ash'waren - she is both oldest AND sexiest woman in Chel! And she probably also has more sex than any other val. Not to mention the ammount of children she had - and some of them, or her grandchildredn, are surely handsome males. Will blood relation stop her (or any other drow) from dragging a nice person in bed?
Don't forget that the sex is a common part of drow life, and it is mostly an entertainment, rather than an act of reproduction.
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Re: Drow and the incest.

Postby MEK1724 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:48 am

Amberlight wrote:Will blood relation stop her (or any other drow) from dragging a nice person in bed?

It will not necessarily stop them. The incest taboo is less strong in Drows because of lesser deleterious effects , although not every drow practices it and not every clan has no taboo regarding it. Roman egypt , had ~20-40% brother sister marriages among all classes of society though , so I'd imagine it would be common among some clans , if there's even less consequences then in people .
Although of the drow we've seen in-comic they don't seem to practice it to that extreme , or necessarily at all ,but go in for shipping off their sons away from their families to gain allies and ties in other clans .
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Re: Drow and the incest.

Postby H'K'Maly » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:04 pm

MEK1724 wrote:
Amberlight wrote:Will blood relation stop her (or any other drow) from dragging a nice person in bed?

It will not necessarily stop them. The incest taboo is less strong in Drows because of lesser deleterious effects , although not every drow practices it and not every clan has no taboo regarding it. Roman egypt , had ~20-40% brother sister marriages among all classes of society though , so I'd imagine it would be common among some clans , if there's even less consequences then in people .
Although of the drow we've seen in-comic they don't seem to practice it to that extreme , or necessarily at all ,but go in for shipping off their sons away from their families to gain allies and ties in other clans .


Uh ... you both DO know that sex doesn't always result in children? Maybe the question of "dragging a nice person in bed" should be resolved separately from breeding.

Also, there is blood relation and blood relation. Direct blood descendant will still have very different genetics in few generations ...
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Re: Drow and the incest.

Postby MEK1724 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:12 am

H'K'Maly wrote:Uh ... you both DO know that sex doesn't always result in children?

Wouldn't you usually put an argument , or backing logic , after a statement ? It kind of feels like it needs it .
H'K'Maly wrote:Maybe the question of "dragging a nice person in bed" should be resolved separately from breeding.

Those 2 things you mentioned aren't separate , and are linked in a fundamental and obvious way . *hmmm*
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Re: Drow and the incest.

Postby H'K'Maly » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:20 pm

MEK1724 wrote:
H'K'Maly wrote:Uh ... you both DO know that sex doesn't always result in children?

Wouldn't you usually put an argument , or backing logic , after a statement ? It kind of feels like it needs it .
H'K'Maly wrote:Maybe the question of "dragging a nice person in bed" should be resolved separately from breeding.

Those 2 things you mentioned aren't separate , and are linked in a fundamental and obvious way . *hmmm*


I'm not sure if there is canon reference, but in Rise of the JaalDarya story, page from 2011-11-12, it is mentioned that drow females need males for reproduction. I suppose I don't need to list links proving that males are not needed for sex, there are few even in main archive. Therefore, sex doesn't always result in children.

For humans, there is also issue of correct timing in relation to menstruation cycle. We know drows don't have menstruations, still they are supposed to be less fertile that humans. And it certainly isn't because they don't have sex often enough, although I must admit I don't have canon reference for this bit either (except old wordsetting pages).
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Re: Drow and the incest.

Postby MEK1724 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:56 pm

H'K'Maly wrote: Therefore, sex doesn't always result in children.

And so ... what does that have to do with anything ? In all of your examples any given copulation could result in children . Drow are an even worse example , as as far as I know they don't even know their fertile times . The only logical surefire approach for someone or a species , which didn't want children to be sired by close relatives would be to not have sex with them in the first place ."dragging a nice person in bed" will result in a few children being sired by them eventually , even if not immediately . If you're saying that they don't like having children by close relatives , then their actions are illogical , and opposed to all species and human cultures strategies to avoid inbreeding . All of them as a general rule avoid bedding their relatives , if they're opposed to inbreeding . Those which don't (Roman Egypt , various royal clans . etc) , have children by their relatives . They don't do both at once .
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Re: Drow and the incest.

Postby H'K'Maly » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:02 am

MEK1724 wrote:
H'K'Maly wrote: Therefore, sex doesn't always result in children.

And so ... what does that have to do with anything ? In all of your examples any given copulation could result in children . Drow are an even worse example , as as far as I know they don't even know their fertile times . The only logical surefire approach for someone or a species , which didn't want children to be sired by close relatives would be to not have sex with them in the first place ."dragging a nice person in bed" will result in a few children being sired by them eventually , even if not immediately . If you're saying that they don't like having children by close relatives , then their actions are illogical , and opposed to all species and human cultures strategies to avoid inbreeding . All of them as a general rule avoid bedding their relatives , if they're opposed to inbreeding . Those which don't (Roman Egypt , various royal clans . etc) , have children by their relatives . They don't do both at once .


Did you READ what I wrote? You completely missed the logical surefire approach of having sex with person of same gender, which drows obviously does. (While there was a child of this pairing, it was only thanks to Jaal's bioengineering, no sex involved.)

Amberlight wrote:But Drow are (almost) immortal. Look at Ash'waren - she is both oldest AND sexiest woman in Chel! And she probably also has more sex than any other val. Not to mention the ammount of children she had - and some of them, or her grandchildredn, are surely handsome males. Will blood relation stop her (or any other drow) from dragging a nice person in bed?
Don't forget that the sex is a common part of drow life, and it is mostly an entertainment, rather than an act of reproduction.


... and to the original topic, Ash'waren can have sex with her great-grand childrens without any serious risk of inbreeding problems even if she WOULD have children from that.

( ... imagined Ash studying her genealogical tree: too much close, too much close, oh, this one I could have sex with ...)
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Re: Drow and the incest.

Postby Dice Warwick » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:14 am

from what I can logically assume, incest is looked down apon among the drow, but is also easily ignored. Do to the low birth rate among the drow, I would have not doubt that most females would not know who the father is, unless they keep to the same partner. So as incest goes among the Drow, it's probably uncommon, and children from it is less common, but happens. And I can attach to facts to it; one relatives then to be biologically unattractive to each other, and two, do to how long the Drow can live, they can find many willing partners over 200 years of living, making incest a sad option.

So personally I say incest probably happens among the Val more often then among the res of the drow, and that incest probably happens on accident as well.
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Re: Drow and the incest.

Postby MEK1724 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:59 pm

Dice Warwick wrote:So personally I say incest probably happens among the Val more often then among the res of the drow, and that incest probably happens on accident as well.

That's what stoned guy said , yes ..... I wonder what happened to him ?
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Re: Drow and the incest.

Postby H'K'Maly » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:19 pm

MEK1724 wrote:
Dice Warwick wrote:So personally I say incest probably happens among the Val more often then among the res of the drow, and that incest probably happens on accident as well.

That's what stoned guy said , yes ..... I wonder what happened to him ?


If Shinae met him, he's dead.


Dice Warwick wrote:Do to the low birth rate among the drow, I would have not doubt that most females would not know who the father is, unless they keep to the same partner.


Surprisingly, even Ash knew. I would therefore guess that they do keep the same partner long enough ... (like, month or two?).
Last edited by H'K'Maly on Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drow and the incest.

Postby Dice Warwick » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:50 am

H'K'Maly wrote:
Dice Warwick wrote:Do to the low birth rate among the drow, I would have not doubt that most females would not know who the father is, unless they keep to the same partner.


Surprisingly, even Ash knew. I would therefore guess that they do keep the same partner long enough ... (like, month or two?).

Ash is not a Drow, shes a Dark Elf, but it's still all the same. I probably should have added more to it, because of a female drow dose want a child, and want's a good quality partner for it, she would probably hold onto them until pregnant. Commoners, probably will pair up more often then the Val's, with the Val's not bound by most economic problems, would have many partners to choose from and could easily drop the male right after getting pregnant. on the incest side of this, Val's in clans like the Sullisin'rune, and Beldrobbaen would have higher rates of incest do to how closed off they are, and clans like Nal'sarkoth and Illhar'dro would have higher rate of unintentional incest do to how spread out they are, and well drugs.
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Re: Drow and the incest.

Postby Sionyx » Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:56 am

Suntiger answered some questions on this a few years back: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=14913&p=643605&hilit=parent#p643605
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Re: Drow and the incest.

Postby H'K'Maly » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:02 am

Dice Warwick wrote:
H'K'Maly wrote:
Dice Warwick wrote:Do to the low birth rate among the drow, I would have not doubt that most females would not know who the father is, unless they keep to the same partner.


Surprisingly, even Ash knew. I would therefore guess that they do keep the same partner long enough ... (like, month or two?).

Ash is not a Drow, shes a Dark Elf, but it's still all the same. I probably should have added more to it, because of a female drow dose want a child, and want's a good quality partner for it, she would probably hold onto them until pregnant. Commoners, probably will pair up more often then the Val's, with the Val's not bound by most economic problems, would have many partners to choose from and could easily drop the male right after getting pregnant. on the incest side of this, Val's in clans like the Sullisin'rune, and Beldrobbaen would have higher rates of incest do to how closed off they are, and clans like Nal'sarkoth and Illhar'dro would have higher rate of unintentional incest do to how spread out they are, and well drugs.


Sullisin'rune are not so closed up ... of course, they are going to have higher rates of incest due to parties and empaths, and well chocolate ... :)

Also, aren't Beldrobbaen turning all males into driders after conception?
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Re: Drow and the incest.

Postby Dalvyserran » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:54 pm

H'K'Maly wrote:Also, aren't Beldrobbaen turning all males into driders after conception?


No, that's only some people among the old school faction
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Re: Drow and the incest.

Postby Pitdragon » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:45 pm

Dalvyserran wrote:
H'K'Maly wrote:Also, aren't Beldrobbaen turning all males into driders after conception?


No, that's only some people among the old school faction


Yeah, they can't really afford to do it much now, and the males that managed to avoid it and the younger males are probably very resistant to continuing the tradition (they can probably use their population crisis as leverage against it too). And it originally was only a reward for siring a female, not conception.
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