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Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

To battle effectively battle Drow humans would need...

Medieval Tech: Just Listen to Sun Tzu
13
17%
18-19th century Tech: gunpowder weaponry > swords, magic, and golems
16
21%
WWI Tech: Just let lose the machine guns and watch the bodies pail up.
24
31%
WWII Tech: Death from above can be a frightening thing...
12
16%
Modern Day Tech: one nuke is all it takes
12
16%
 
Total votes : 77

Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Yulnaggoth » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:20 pm

Fair enough. The world went crazy in the past 100 years.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Raziel » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:15 am

blackshade10 wrote:
Raziel wrote:
blackshade10 wrote:I say WW1 tech, where stuff begins to pierce armor and they have heavy stuff.

Inaccurate firearms, cannons, and bayonets wouldn't do much compared to, say, a giant moving golem or defensive magic. You get one or two shots off before you get squished.

But why were it only begins to pierce armor instead of were it's advanced beyond that? ^^;


Mainly because if you can pierce armor with high caliber weaponry, at the current level of Drow technology, you can hold your own, and probably win. The Drow would probably give em a run for their money(like the giant golems).

WW2 and modern technology would just wipe out drow tech so long as the humans knew what to use(a pistol wouldn't pierce their armor, for example).

So you're saying that WW1 tech would put humans on even footing with the drow while WW2 would give the humans too much of an advantage? *hmmm*
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby blackshade10 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:50 am

No, I'm saying WW2 and above is when the advantage becomes incredibly OVERWHELMING. WW1 is when they have a distinct, but not overwhelming, advantage, ala, the Drow would be on the defensive pretty much all the time. It'd probably be a "we can't leave the underworld" scenario. Hit Modern and if the humans are especially violent, then even that scenario becomes kind of difficult to do.



DISCLAIMER: If anything here doesn't make sense in English, I warn that I am high on painkillers from having a molar removed.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Junglefowl26 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:46 pm

Something I think worth bringing up is warbeasts. In the story, Sarghress wolves and Sharen dragons are very power additions to their armies in spite of not being able to use mana. I mean, in relic hunters a single dragon was a threat to multiple Sarghress and Nal'sarkoth squads. We have also seen other, unnamed war beasts used to great effect at Matchike, and the Black Sun siege in Ptp.
Additionally, Ptp and Relic Hunters have introduced more than one animal capable of taking on multiple fae at once.

With this in mind, a potential equalizer between elves and humans would be what kind of animals they can tame. In particular, if the humans could tame aerial creatures like the Flying Horror from Ptp, that could be a big upperhand.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:12 pm

Junglefowl26 wrote:Something I think worth bringing up is warbeasts. In the story, Sarghress wolves and Sharen dragons are very power additions to their armies in spite of not being able to use mana. I mean, in relic hunters a single dragon was a threat to multiple Sarghress and Nal'sarkoth squads. We have also seen other, unnamed war beasts used to great effect at Matchike, and the Black Sun siege in Ptp.
Additionally, Ptp and Relic Hunters have introduced more than one animal capable of taking on multiple fae at once.

With this in mind, a potential equalizer between elves and humans would be what kind of animals they can tame. In particular, if the humans could tame aerial creatures like the Flying Horror from Ptp, that could be a big upperhand.


Vaelia needs to tame a Flying Horror...that will teach those jerks who look down on her.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Raziel » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:05 am

blackshade10 wrote:No, I'm saying WW2 and above is when the advantage becomes incredibly OVERWHELMING. WW1 is when they have a distinct, but not overwhelming, advantage, ala, the Drow would be on the defensive pretty much all the time. It'd probably be a "we can't leave the underworld" scenario. Hit Modern and if the humans are especially violent, then even that scenario becomes kind of difficult to do.



DISCLAIMER: If anything here doesn't make sense in English, I warn that I am high on painkillers from having a molar removed.

That's what I was saying... ^^;
Junglefowl26 wrote:Something I think worth bringing up is warbeasts. In the story, Sarghress wolves and Sharen dragons are very power additions to their armies in spite of not being able to use mana. I mean, in relic hunters a single dragon was a threat to multiple Sarghress and Nal'sarkoth squads. We have also seen other, unnamed war beasts used to great effect at Matchike, and the Black Sun siege in Ptp.
Additionally, Ptp and Relic Hunters have introduced more than one animal capable of taking on multiple fae at once.

With this in mind, a potential equalizer between elves and humans would be what kind of animals they can tame. In particular, if the humans could tame aerial creatures like the Flying Horror from Ptp, that could be a big upperhand.

War beasts are good, but don't forget about golums, and there mana arts. A single empath could cause chaos for a squad causing them to kill themselves, then there are summons too. Such things would be a problem even for humans with modern tech. *hmmm*
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Max_black0 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:37 am

It's importnat to remember that Fae technologies are based on Mana. This means that humans are totally unable to capture or reproduce enemy weapons and technologies. BUT on the other hand drow proably could use all non-magical human weapons.

In the event that humans found weapons that gave them an advantage, it's still quite likely that fae could even the odds eventually.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby blackshade10 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:42 am

Max_black0 wrote:It's importnat to remember that Fae technologies are based on Mana. This means that humans are totally unable to capture or reproduce enemy weapons and technologies. BUT on the other hand drow proably could use all non-magical human weapons.

In the event that humans found weapons that gave them an advantage, it's still quite likely that fae could even the odds eventually.


The real question is less of them, say, picking up and grabbing a rifle, but more of them eventually finding a way to reproduce it with fae technology since they have an overwhelming sense of superiority that usually makes them rather unwilling to use non-fae technology. It comes from their current status of being on top of the food chain, makes them think that anything that a lower species could produce is inherently inferior. Depending on how you view it and how well they can make an equal version with mana-tech, they might be right.

Really, mostly bored musing, since I doubt the world setting will ever really facilitate that(except for Daydream Space Age, which is kind of awesome actually, where Fae are portrayed as being fast and agile, but fragile, and earth-human tech portrayed as slow and clunky, but with tons of firepower).
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Junglefowl26 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:22 am

War beasts are good, but don't forget about golums, and there mana arts. A single empath could cause chaos for a squad causing them to kill themselves, then there are summons too. Such things would be a problem even for humans with modern tech.

Golems are definitely the biggest advantage the drow have, especially at the time of the story itself. Even discounting magical defense, the only human weapons that could hurt golems are catapults, and they are too inaccurate to hit such a slow and moving target.

Now, I think a modern tank could be a golem depicted in the comic, but golems improve as well. Particularly as Quain mentions that they are planning on mass producing golems...

Empaths are also powerful, but drow armies have ways of countering them, so I assuming they can be overcome somehow.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Raziel » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:33 am

Junglefowl26 wrote:
War beasts are good, but don't forget about golums, and there mana arts. A single empath could cause chaos for a squad causing them to kill themselves, then there are summons too. Such things would be a problem even for humans with modern tech.

Golems are definitely the biggest advantage the drow have, especially at the time of the story itself. Even discounting magical defense, the only human weapons that could hurt golems are catapults, and they are too inaccurate to hit such a slow and moving target.

Now, I think a modern tank could be a golem depicted in the comic, but golems improve as well. Particularly as Quain mentions that they are planning on mass producing golems...

Empaths are also powerful, but drow armies have ways of countering them, so I assuming they can be overcome somehow.

Drow armies, not human. We already saw that humans can be susceptible in the earth age daydream. ^^
Last edited by Raziel on Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Harbinger of Cookies » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:05 pm

Junglefowl26 wrote:Golems are definitely the biggest advantage the drow have, especially at the time of the story itself. Even discounting magical defense, the only human weapons that could hurt golems are catapults, and they are too inaccurate to hit such a slow and moving target.

Now, I think a modern tank could be a golem depicted in the comic, but golems improve as well. Particularly as Quain mentions that they are planning on mass producing golems...

The golems we've seen so far are totally wrong design against any kind of artillery, they'd fall down way too easily against exploding shells, or be crippled by hits on joints. Even with mana shields, I doubt shape of the golem is irrelevant, more front area to protect is more front area to protect, wether it's protected by matter or by mana.

Now tank-looking low-profile golems would be a different matter, they'd be tanks, and their numbers and actual level of technology compared to human tanks and/or anti-tank guns would be a decisive factors. A modern MBT (2+ kilometre effective range for the main gun while moving and buttoned up) would obviously be overkill against any golem thingy we've seen so far in the comic (good luck with that mana shield against a DU sabot round heading towards your golem at mach 5). Going back in time, I think late WW2 tanks were already superior to any "believable" mana tech golems tanks. The main archive golems would fall against even WW1 tanks, because of their design (clearly bad against exploding gun shells)

But golems are a rarity. We don't need to look further than at the Conquest of Machike side story. First see how that fire sorceress got turned into a pin cushion by simple arrows/bolts. Then imagine what would have happened to Quain's army, if there was a single primitive gatling machine gun with well-trained crew on the wall of Machike... Ouchie.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby waffleferret » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:32 pm

We'll all find out when kern desides it's time to show us a battle between both sides :)
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Raziel » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:09 pm

Harbinger of Cookies wrote:
Junglefowl26 wrote:Golems are definitely the biggest advantage the drow have, especially at the time of the story itself. Even discounting magical defense, the only human weapons that could hurt golems are catapults, and they are too inaccurate to hit such a slow and moving target.

Now, I think a modern tank could be a golem depicted in the comic, but golems improve as well. Particularly as Quain mentions that they are planning on mass producing golems...

The golems we've seen so far are totally wrong design against any kind of artillery, they'd fall down way too easily against exploding shells, or be crippled by hits on joints. Even with mana shields, I doubt shape of the golem is irrelevant, more front area to protect is more front area to protect, wether it's protected by matter or by mana.

Now tank-looking low-profile golems would be a different matter, they'd be tanks, and their numbers and actual level of technology compared to human tanks and/or anti-tank guns would be a decisive factors. A modern MBT (2+ kilometre effective range for the main gun while moving and buttoned up) would obviously be overkill against any golem thingy we've seen so far in the comic (good luck with that mana shield against a DU sabot round heading towards your golem at mach 5). Going back in time, I think late WW2 tanks were already superior to any "believable" mana tech golems tanks. The main archive golems would fall against even WW1 tanks, because of their design (clearly bad against exploding gun shells)

But golems are a rarity. We don't need to look further than at the Conquest of Machike side story. First see how that fire sorceress got turned into a pin cushion by simple arrows/bolts. Then imagine what would have happened to Quain's army, if there was a single primitive gatling machine gun with well-trained crew on the wall of Machike... Ouchie.

There are more smaller and quicker golums though like the one that attacked the demon messenger in the Sharen fortress, there are also summons and nether summons that could decimate the enemy line. ^^
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Torrin » Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:29 am

The problem with crossovers (e.g., Real Life vs. Chel) is that there are no set "rules" or framework for establishing the parameters. Where would the fight take place? How do any differences in the laws of physics between the universes affect the combatants?

So it depends on who is D.M.

If Kern is the D.M., then you might need at least Babylon 5 Centauri - level tech. Than just mass - drive Chel back to the stone age

If I am DM, and the human player can take anything from anywhere in history, may I suggest:

Tsun Tsu as supreme general. Archimedes as science advisor. Julius Caesar commands the human infantry. Alexander the Great commands the human cavalry.

Throw in multiple arrow launchers and trebuchets as well as some samurai and knight templar special forces, and I think the medievals might have a real chance of pulling it off.

Perhaps as a reasonable compromise, I'd go with WWII tech. Imagine the top 100 magic users in Chel. Now put them against the "V3 project" and 1000 heavy tanks or just one "little boy". Also relevant (Zero no Tsukaima spoiler alert!).
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Harbinger of Cookies » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:17 am

Raziel wrote:
Harbinger of Cookies wrote:But golems are a rarity. We don't need to look further than at the Conquest of Machike side story. First see how that fire sorceress got turned into a pin cushion by simple arrows/bolts. Then imagine what would have happened to Quain's army, if there was a single primitive gatling machine gun with well-trained crew on the wall of Machike... Ouchie.

There are more smaller and quicker golums though like the one that attacked the demon messenger in the Sharen fortress, there are also summons and nether summons that could decimate the enemy line. ^^

Hmm, I think any summon would be really weak against firearms. They aren't particularily damageproof, they're just reasonably strong, obey without hesitation, are kinda expendable, and especially the ones in the soul gems are very easy to transport. Sort of like the stream of bullets from an automatic firearm, really XD

Also the "lighter, quicker" new generation golems would also be vulnerable to smaller caliber guns and smaller explosives. Since invention of practical firearms, this hasn't really worked out for humans, we've needed to go down to the grunt + max 20-30 kilograms combat load, able to crouch and crawl, or alternatively up the armour until it can withstand anything grunts can throw at it at least from the front (from the first dedicated long-barreled large-caliber AT-rifles with AP rounds, to the current state of the art (which does not necessarily mean the best) guided fire-and-forget tandem HEAT warhead AT missiles).
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