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Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

To battle effectively battle Drow humans would need...

Medieval Tech: Just Listen to Sun Tzu
13
17%
18-19th century Tech: gunpowder weaponry > swords, magic, and golems
16
21%
WWI Tech: Just let lose the machine guns and watch the bodies pail up.
24
31%
WWII Tech: Death from above can be a frightening thing...
12
16%
Modern Day Tech: one nuke is all it takes
12
16%
 
Total votes : 77

Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Junglefowl26 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:08 am

^Yes. Blocking stuff with mana is pretty tiring.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Raziel » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:58 pm

JohnGB0083 wrote:
Raziel wrote:Looks like machine guns are in the lead, though I can't agree with that. If a mana shield can stop projectiles and in this case a bullet then why would allot of bullets matter, they can just stand there with there shield up until the human is out of ammo. ^^;


Perhaps, but does the shield use up energy? Don't forget human machine guns are just one example of WWI tech you all so have long-range artillery. If the shield uses up energy every time it's hit than the elves holding it up would eventually collapse from exhaustion.

But wouldn't long range artillery go under the death from above category. Besides the Jaals were able to hold up there shields for days in that one Jaal story. *hmmm*
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Tsuris » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:06 pm

Raziel wrote:
JohnGB0083 wrote:
Raziel wrote:Looks like machine guns are in the lead, though I can't agree with that. If a mana shield can stop projectiles and in this case a bullet then why would allot of bullets matter, they can just stand there with there shield up until the human is out of ammo. ^^;


Perhaps, but does the shield use up energy? Don't forget human machine guns are just one example of WWI tech you all so have long-range artillery. If the shield uses up energy every time it's hit than the elves holding it up would eventually collapse from exhaustion.

But wouldn't long range artillery go under the death from above category. Besides the Jaals were able to hold up there shields for days in that one Jaal story. *hmmm*

but they were just keeping out a plague. Multiple shots from a heavy duty machine gun would tire out anyone, the mana shield would have to endure multiple rounds every second. So based on what I've seen from Relic Hunters using mana shields and the Black Sun in PtP, it's pretty tiring to keep up a shield that long. but let's not forget the heavy artillery and bi-planes. Red Baron and what not.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Raziel » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:35 pm

Tsuris wrote:
JohnGB0083 wrote:
Raziel wrote:Looks like machine guns are in the lead, though I can't agree with that. If a mana shield can stop projectiles and in this case a bullet then why would allot of bullets matter, they can just stand there with there shield up until the human is out of ammo. ^^;


Perhaps, but does the shield use up energy? Don't forget human machine guns are just one example of WWI tech you all so have long-range artillery. If the shield uses up energy every time it's hit than the elves holding it up would eventually collapse from exhaustion.

But wouldn't long range artillery go under the death from above category. Besides the Jaals were able to hold up there shields for days in that one Jaal story. *hmmm*

but they were just keeping out a plague. Multiple shots from a heavy duty machine gun would tire out anyone, the mana shield would have to endure multiple rounds every second. So based on what I've seen from Relic Hunters using mana shields and the Black Sun in PtP, it's pretty tiring to keep up a shield that long. but let's not forget the heavy artillery and bi-planes. Red Baron and what not.

I imagine that even if it's just a infectious spore that it still take allot to keep it up for as long as they did. Besides mana shields have defended ageist cannon shots and that's more powerful, and WW2 machine guns are more advanced. And still don't planes and artillery go to the death from above category? Still it's not like the drow are gust going to stand there, they are fast moving targets with mechs. ^^
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby JohnGB0083 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:23 pm

Raziel wrote:I imagine that even if it's just a infectious spore that it still take allot to keep it up for as long as they did. Besides mana shields have defended ageist cannon shots and that's more powerful, and WW2 machine guns are more advanced. And still don't planes and artillery go to the death from above category? Still it's not like the drow are gust going to stand there, they are fast moving targets with mechs. ^^


Planes and Artillery were used during WWI along with the first variants of the modern day machine gun. Planes at first were sent to scout out the enemy and later when they were mounted with machine guns of their own, were used to attack not one other plans, but also occasionally land forces from the air by diving down and shooting at the enemies in the trenches. Artillery become part of warfare since the introduction of cannons in the 17th century and were improved upon through the years. By the the time WWI came around artillery had gone from being a front loaded weapons with an iron ball as the main source of ammo, to breech loaded ones such as the British Mark I Howitzer that made use of explosive shells.

And while the Drow may not stand around and let themselves be rained upon with bullets and explosive artillery shells, their speed would be hampered by the land break breakage caused by human artillery's constant bombing of the terrain. That breakage and the bombing would break up their formations and make more valuable to human gun and sniper fire. Their best chance would to try and close the gap between them and their human counterparts and run quickly in a zigzag pattern and use earth mover to create places for to take cover, and they wouldn't be able to stay in one spot for than a few seconds, because it would take long for human soldiers to redirect and concentrate their fire on the newly risen slab of earth. The earth-movers would be critical in such attack, because if they fall victim to human bullet than that's it the attack. If the others aren't within close enough distance to the human's line to start using magic they're as good as dead. And any long distance magic attacks would have to be well timed and precise because when trying to get through a WWI storm of human bullet fire, the chance for death is pretty high. "No Man's Land," wasn't called that for nothing.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Raziel » Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:21 am

JohnGB0083 wrote:
Raziel wrote:I imagine that even if it's just a infectious spore that it still take allot to keep it up for as long as they did. Besides mana shields have defended ageist cannon shots and that's more powerful, and WW2 machine guns are more advanced. And still don't planes and artillery go to the death from above category? Still it's not like the drow are gust going to stand there, they are fast moving targets with mechs. ^^


Planes and Artillery were used during WWI along with the first variants of the modern day machine gun. Planes at first were sent to scout out the enemy and later when they were mounted with machine guns of their own, were used to attack not one other plans, but also occasionally land forces from the air by diving down and shooting at the enemies in the trenches. Artillery become part of warfare since the introduction of cannons in the 17th century and were improved upon through the years. By the the time WWI came around artillery had gone from being a front loaded weapons with an iron ball as the main source of ammo, to breech loaded ones such as the British Mark I Howitzer that made use of explosive shells.

And while the Drow may not stand around and let themselves be rained upon with bullets and explosive artillery shells, their speed would be hampered by the land break breakage caused by human artillery's constant bombing of the terrain. That breakage and the bombing would break up their formations and make more valuable to human gun and sniper fire. Their best chance would to try and close the gap between them and their human counterparts and run quickly in a zigzag pattern and use earth mover to create places for to take cover, and they wouldn't be able to stay in one spot for than a few seconds, because it would take long for human soldiers to redirect and concentrate their fire on the newly risen slab of earth. The earth-movers would be critical in such attack, because if they fall victim to human bullet than that's it the attack. If the others aren't within close enough distance to the human's line to start using magic they're as good as dead. And any long distance magic attacks would have to be well timed and precise because when trying to get through a WWI storm of human bullet fire, the chance for death is pretty high. "No Man's Land," wasn't called that for nothing.

Even so WW2 had more advanced weapons than WW1 did, and having the best weapons is critical if you want to win a battle. Granted the drow also have advanced weapons in there own right. ^^
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby blackshade10 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:42 am

I say WW1 tech, where stuff begins to pierce armor and they have heavy stuff.

Inaccurate firearms, cannons, and bayonets wouldn't do much compared to, say, a giant moving golem or defensive magic. You get one or two shots off before you get squished.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Raziel » Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:58 pm

blackshade10 wrote:I say WW1 tech, where stuff begins to pierce armor and they have heavy stuff.

Inaccurate firearms, cannons, and bayonets wouldn't do much compared to, say, a giant moving golem or defensive magic. You get one or two shots off before you get squished.

But why were it only begins to pierce armor instead of were it's advanced beyond that? ^^;
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby blackshade10 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:38 pm

Raziel wrote:
blackshade10 wrote:I say WW1 tech, where stuff begins to pierce armor and they have heavy stuff.

Inaccurate firearms, cannons, and bayonets wouldn't do much compared to, say, a giant moving golem or defensive magic. You get one or two shots off before you get squished.

But why were it only begins to pierce armor instead of were it's advanced beyond that? ^^;


Mainly because if you can pierce armor with high caliber weaponry, at the current level of Drow technology, you can hold your own, and probably win. The Drow would probably give em a run for their money(like the giant golems).

WW2 and modern technology would just wipe out drow tech so long as the humans knew what to use(a pistol wouldn't pierce their armor, for example).
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Yulnaggoth » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:59 pm

Anything past the Penninsular War and the drow get slaughtered like animals. After that it's just different degrees of ridiculous overkill.

No wait, the story will be cut for time, so LOL everyone dies offscreen, including the guys with semiautomatic and automatic guns and a machine that attacks from 70 miles away, moves 4 times the speed of sound, and is armed with 1000 lb bombs and a 20 mm autocannon.

Because no one can be better than an elf at anything ever. Isn't that right, blackshade?

blackshade10 wrote:Humans fates are sealed NO MATTER WHAT. What would win in a battle? A bear, or a trout? The bear obviously. The drow are the bear and the human are the trout. They are simply farther down the food chain, end of story. Most of their civilization, as Madea has said, is built upon drow technology, which is incompatible with their species. While yes, Drow tend to be quite backstabbing and murderous at times, they still understand the concept of survival and profit, and Drow won't kill someone if they have nothing to gain from it: Which is more common than stabbing your neighbor. And seeing as the time time it takes for a drow to reach adult hood is equal to about 1-1/2 to 2 generations of humans, the Drow can just plain outlive them, keeping all their experience that would take lifetimes for humans to learn.


This was after you said berserking is useless (so it's easy to fight people on drugs, because there's no advantage to someone ripping their arm muscles to throw a fridge at you.)
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby blackshade10 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:13 pm

Yeah, and my opinion on that still stands in this setting. Technically speaking, they aren't even humans in this setting they are halmes, which I think that Kern actually has said is different from a human, though I can't remember how.

I've learned not to take stupid shit on the internet as SRS BIZNIZ, so if you want to start an argument with me over something, do yourself a favor and go do something more productive.

If on the other hand you just want to chat like a normal person, I'm cool with that.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby JohnGB0083 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:13 pm

Raziel wrote:Even so WW2 had more advanced weapons than WW1 did, and having the best weapons is critical if you want to win a battle. Granted the drow also have advanced weapons in there own right. ^^


Truth, Golms, would provide a problem for WWI tech powered a human, or Halm, military. There size however would make them an easy target for human artillery, and how they last would depend of make they were made of.

Clay=bad, metal=good.

I will also point out one other thing that I didn't before, WWI tech would also include the of Biological warfare, such poisonous gases.

blackshade10 wrote:Yeah, and my opinion on that still stands in this setting. Technically speaking, they aren't even humans in this setting they are halmes, which I think that Kern actually has said is different from a human, though I can't remember how.

I've learned not to take stupid shit on the internet as SRS BIZNIZ, so if you want to start an argument with me over something, do yourself a favor and go do something more productive.

If on the other hand you just want to chat like a normal person, I'm cool with that.


I can understand your point, however, also keep in mind that the story is being told from Drow point of view and so naturally humans, in their eyes, are an inferior species. However, I'm asking you to look at the Drow from the point of of a human, as I did in the first post, and am asking what minimum level of technology, from our own world, would the humans of DT need to be able to stand toe to toe against the Drow. As the greatest different between humans and Drow of DT, that I can see outside of magic, is knowledge.

On a quick side note: The Drow have referred to humans with a number a names: goblins, Emberi, halmes, and human. In chapter 12 Valeria, was twice referred to as a human, and in chapter 5 Ariel referred to her as an Emberi. Halme, I think, is just the Drow's most common term for human.

and no, I'm not trying to start an argument.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby blackshade10 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:19 pm

Hm, you might be right, like I said, I really can't remember what Kern said, I think it was in the News last year.

Now, what technology would DT humans need? I missed that part of the question, skimmed it admittedly.

This is assuming that they know and have at least a modicum of training and experience operating it I imagine as well.


For one, I'm not fond of these kinds of questions as they seem to imply that technology can only ever develop in a linear one-of-a-kind fashion. I mean, it's totally possible for technology to just develop in a completely different manner.

But all that aside, I still think WW1 technology. My primary reasoning of this is that I don't think that 18-19th(pre WW1 I assume) would have the technology to counter-act Fae superweapons. Cannons mean fuck-all when they're bouncing off metal plating. Makes me think of the armored ships used in the civil war, which rarely sunk, and when two met at sea, would spend the entire battle shooting harmless cannonballs off each others plating.


All of this is speculative to a big part: Physics in DT work differently than Earth, at least in some fashion(We sure as hell don't have giant pieces of earth floating high in the sky!)

That's my thoughts at least.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Yulnaggoth » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:04 pm

totally possible for technology to just develop in a completely different manner.

This.

As for your question:

1760- double barreled shotgun.
1784- Shrapnel shell is invented.
1853- Rifles replace muskets entirely.
1880- First Boer War. Soldiers no longer shoot in lines. Snipers kill 10 times their number at Majuba hill.

Colonial tech takes this. WW1 would be stupidly overpowered.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby blackshade10 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:19 pm

Hrm, I personally would separate 17th and 18th, maybe even early and late 18th, since on Earth, the advancements were very significant. Rifling alone changed much of the battlefield.
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