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Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

To battle effectively battle Drow humans would need...

Medieval Tech: Just Listen to Sun Tzu
13
17%
18-19th century Tech: gunpowder weaponry > swords, magic, and golems
16
21%
WWI Tech: Just let lose the machine guns and watch the bodies pail up.
24
31%
WWII Tech: Death from above can be a frightening thing...
12
16%
Modern Day Tech: one nuke is all it takes
12
16%
 
Total votes : 77

Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Junglefowl26 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:45 am

He is just going to take anything we say as just proof we're deluded fanboys or whatever negative stereotypes he has (ironically, I don't even like elves, much less drow. Dwarves all the way! Orcs and trolls are good too).

But to put it simply: kids triumphing against all odds is just part of the genre. Look at Avatar: the Last Airbender: four kids take down hundreds of palace guards. Or Star Wars: A bunch on untrained teenagers and an old man take an important prisoner right out of the most powerful fortress in the galaxy, killing dozens of elite soldiers on the way. Or read the webcomic Goblins, where an entire human anti-goblin unit is killed by the main characters, five low level goblins
Compared to that, Ariel's group didn't even do that well (Vealia was the only one who ever fought more than one person at a time, and despite having a weapon ill-suited for the circumstances, she did very well for herself. And let's not forget the time she beat up a =n armed and armored drow soldier while in shackles.)

And that's without even getting into how non-human races are treated in these type of stories.

But humans are on the villain end, then everyone gets all defensive. Why people are so sentimental about their own race, I never understand...I only get annoyed when it is some anti-materialist/capitalist/technology/etc message in some overly preachy package.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Pariel » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:48 am

Shrugh.

Well, I am sorry you feel like that, but there are better ways to channel your frustration than going on someone's board and trying to dismiss that someone. I don't think you'll ever get support for doing that. Most likely you'll be labelled as troll.

You're not going to solve anything like that.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Raziel » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:22 am

Junglefowl26 wrote:Bronze age humans are remarkably short on fighter planes.

There might be flying animals to use though.

Well they said "WW2 tech death from above can be a frightening thing." Aside from planes and ordinance what else is there for it to be? ^^;
P.S. Don't ruin the conversation guys. ^^;
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby MEK1724 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:14 pm

*hmmm*
Asclepion wrote:prove me wrong?

or
Raziel wrote:Don't ruin the conversation

*hmmm* .... whatever
Asclepion wrote:a bunch of teenagers steamrolled a fortress.

And why shouldn't they ? Is it because it's unrealistic? Why? I mean the wall is meaningless if the protagonist can fly. Although only 2 people manning the wall seems a bit silly , but still you don't necessarily need a full contingent of guys on the wall if you can see anyone coming with ladders or siege weapons from a kilometer or so away , and the people throughout the fort may have been getting ready still , given that the town was only being burnt for a few minutes.
Or do you mean the fight scenes lacked any tension or payoff? I'd agree with you there (though there is something to be said for watching people be outclassed , for me at least) , but there weren't really that many fights , and as you said some were cut out. If you like fights , and well matched ones I can see how this chapter might not do it for you.
Though I thought several of the other happenings in that chapter , like Diva's takeover , and Ariel finally finding her friend were good.
Asclepion wrote:That's all for negative consequences.

Yeah I'd agree , Ariel and crew could have quite easily been thrown into shit , if the 10 or 20 guys (I'm assuming that's all there were) who were left in the castle had swarmed them , and been able to get up close in the windy corridors . However they seemed to be separated from one another , and thrown out at them in manageable chunks.
Is that stupid of the castle guards? Maybe , but not so unbelievable (at least for me) that I'm confused as to what the hell the Nagyscedians are doing/thinking. Crappy staffing ,and people not knowing what the hell is going on when they get woken up in the middle of the night, does happen after all. And there armour should have taken a significant amount of time to put on. Like they're maybe just up by the time the protagonists arrive.
Asclepion wrote:Even stormtroopers fire their guns.

Well they were scared. It might not be interesting , from the point of view that the protagonists need to be challenged in fight scenes , but most medieval soldiers only needed to watch 1 in 4 of there buddies die on the battlefield before they got cold feet and rout.
I mean they should have been braver facing the protagonists if they were all together, but they weren't as far as I could see. I mean you might think they should have been together , and ideally a band of warriors would want to be , but it's not totally ridiculous that they just couldn't form up in that time frame and situation.
Asclepion wrote:everyone getting scared, dropping their weapons and running

Any bravery shown when facing the weird fae things would mean that the humans should think they have a reasonable chance of taking them when they're on their own or only outnumber them slightly . Although in order to think that you would think that they'd have some experience which tells that they can in fact kill them that way. If they can in fact not take them, their stories should just tell of people trying that dying. Then all of their battle tactics should just be "only attack them if you outnumber them 10 to 1" , and "if your on your own get to other people and fight them together" .

So yeah , if I cared about similar things as you , like protagonists should be challenged, and credible built up enemies shouldn't suck , then yes I can understand how this would be among the least favourite story chapter. As it happens though I can enjoy/tolerate an unbalanced fight , and some plausible incompetence in mooks , and I liked the Diva rebirth stuff , and Ariel reacquiring Faen.
Though I'm not sure I'm able to understand disliking the chapter so much as to call people names over it a year and half after it was published , but I guess that's just me. :P XD
Now let me be struck dead if ever speak of this again . ^^;
Last edited by MEK1724 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Lady Se'rune » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:49 pm

http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.ph ... rs&id=1316 the sharen's Aerial unit they seem to be autonomous attacking anything they see as a threat

plus you seem to think the halm would advance if Space Age is any indication while not canon I admit the halm are dooomed to not advance they are basically a protectorate of the Drow Civilization

granted the basis of SA is that Earth Also exist and they are our real life counter part only more advanced :P
but their getting there asses kicked by their own Colonists
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Junglefowl26 » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:02 pm

Something else that I thought of and want to bring up: What happened with Ariel and the Halme castle, was, in the end a storytelling decision, not a world building one. The staff just thought the "rescue Faen" storyline was going on too long and they wanted to wrap it up as quickly as possible. So several chapters worth of stuff was smashed into a few chapters, and entire sub-plots were dropped (most notably the introduction of the Hermoine and the Prince who was going to be the main villain of the arc) Kern recognized that the end result felt rushed and anti-climatic, but ultimately feels it was worth it to get the focus back on the politics that was the main draw of the series.

I would also like to point out that the creators have considered continuing the drowtales world after Moonless Age with stories about other races. A Feral centered story has been mentioned fairly often as a potential future product, and the cut Hermoine prince has also been mentioned as possibly getting his own story. Plus the sadly on hiatus Mistfolk story is mostly about fairies.
Plus, the existing stories of High Treason, Fen's Journal and the first Relic Hunters 2 story all have non-drow main characters (though treason does not make the least bit of sense in the modern version of the setting).

Not to mention when Kite, Kern, and some of their friends got together and roleplayed a story in the Drowtales world...they played as a bunch of humans (the basic premise was, as far as I understand it since we only got some art, that the kingdoms of Nagyescsed and Niwacer were having border disputes, and the city of Hermunbe was on that border. The prince of Hermunbe was to marry the princess of Niwacer, but something went wrong and Niwacer attacked. The main characters are the bodyguards of the prince, and their objective was to get him to safety. Apparently it was a really good story and Kite mentioned possibly drawing it out someday, but the team is very busy trying to keep up with all the promises they already have.)
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby JohnGB0083 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:24 pm

I'm glad people replied to my post, though I think I wasn't clear on what I was looking for in the discussion, as some have just said humans are doom no matter what and support the elves superiority, with the events of chapter 22 when Ariel and her friends successfully broke into and out of the Nayescsed's Castle and killing their king the process as well as rescuing the elven prisnors along with Feane.

I agree that Ariel and her friends did an impress job and all pawned the human guards. the kingdom had an incompetent King obsessed with getting immortality which, if you look at history, such with China's first Emperor, such obsession do not make an effective government. Also at the same time the Ariel and her group entered the castle, the Highland Raiders lunched a small attack to distract the Nayescsed Halms to become confused and disorganized long enough for Ariel to complete her task. However, the humans eventually regrouped, as can seen here ready to retake their castle. However, Ariel and her group had already fled the castle. The Humans of that kingdom were also unaware of the Drow and their magic and some believed it to be mere child tales.

There was never any full conflict between the Raiders and the regrouped Nayescsed professional military, nor did the human military seem to have any real knowledge on the Drow and their magic. So I've edited my first post to better clarify what I meant. I look forward to hearing people's opinions.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby KitAlda » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:06 pm

I'm going to say ww1 technology. I say this because, not only do the drow have magic, they also have the advantage of greater skill. Why do I say this? Because a drow warrior can concentrate on learning the art of warfare for much longer than a human could even live. Add that to magic and low light vision (face it, the drow attack at night, when they know they have that advantage), and I believe the humans (who cannot draw the numbers card for real, since they may be many, but only a select few will be trained warriors) would loose to the drow even if the humans had non-automatic guns.

The drow would come silently under cover of the night, and they would be pretty close before the humans could get any kind of shot on them.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Raziel » Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:44 pm

Nukes I think would be too much overkill, while ww1 tech should be enough for a fare battle. Besides even though I doubt mana shields could defend ageist a nuke using too many of them would just make the over world inhabitable again. Then we'd have to go underground with the drow anyway. ^^;
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Devour the cabbage » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:39 am

I'm going to go out on a limb and say medieval tech but only under certain circumstances because I don't know how the humans are really based in this apart from the brief glimpse we've had of them so far. One lightly guarded fort vs story progression. They seem to have the same cultural differences as us at that age so maybe they have unified groups up there too, but its only speculation. And believing the drow to be demons doesn't always help them, in some countries they believed they fought such things and met force with more force. They may be more likely to try other ways of fighting with don't take skill into hand as much, ambush with boulder rolling and storming out the trees in a fungi fueled berserk rage?

Do mana shields only stop spells or steel as well? Though at the same time a counter attack by the humans would likely be impossible, lets see them try navigate the pitch black tunnels and get caught between all the factions and beasties in there.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Raziel » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:44 pm

Devour the cabbage wrote:I'm going to go out on a limb and say medieval tech but only under certain circumstances because I don't know how the humans are really based in this apart from the brief glimpse we've had of them so far. One lightly guarded fort vs story progression. They seem to have the same cultural differences as us at that age so maybe they have unified groups up there too, but its only speculation. And believing the drow to be demons doesn't always help them, in some countries they believed they fought such things and met force with more force. They may be more likely to try other ways of fighting with don't take skill into hand as much, ambush with boulder rolling and storming out the trees in a fungi fueled berserk rage?

Do mana shields only stop spells or steel as well? Though at the same time a counter attack by the humans would likely be impossible, lets see them try navigate the pitch black tunnels and get caught between all the factions and beasties in there.

Since they live in the underworld they already have done that. ^^;
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:05 pm

Assuming a medieval level of technology, what about this?:
• A young healthy human civilian, assuming good morale (not shitscared) can fight an untrained drow civilian.
• Three drafted/levied human soldiers, once trained, and assuming good health and morale can fight two Vlozz´Ress mercenaries (the shittiest of Chel).
• Two professional human soldiers or mercenaries, assuming good health, morale and training can fight one average chelian mercenary or one kyorl crusader.
• Five veteran professional human soldiers, assuming good health, morale and excelent training can fight one rank and file Sarghess soldier or a young Kyorl templar (close combat, tight spaces).
• Ten veteran professional human soldiers, assuming good health, morale and excelent training can fight one rank and file Sarghess soldier or a young Kyorl templar (close combat, open spaces).
• Twenty veteran professional human soldiers, assuming good health, morale and excelent training can fight one Sarghess soldier from one of the elite corps (Highland Raiders, Wolf Riders...etc.) or a veteran Kyorl templar.
• Fifty veteran professional human soldiers, assuming good health, morale and excelent training can fight one Sarghess officer or an elite veteran Kyorl templar.
• Hundred veteran professional human soldiers, assuming good health, morale and excelent training can fight one Sharen dragonknigh or a Berdrobbaern Dryderknight.
• Five hundred veteran professional human soldiers, assuming good health, morale and excelent training can fight one val warrior two or more centuries old.
• One Thousand veteran professional human soldiers, assuming good health, morale and excelent training can fight one val warrior four or more centuries old.
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby moonwalker » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:18 pm

That reminds me of "Deadliest Warrior"...
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby Raziel » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:49 am

Looks like machine guns are in the lead, though I can't agree with that. If a mana shield can stop projectiles and in this case a bullet then why would allot of bullets matter, they can just stand there with there shield up until the human is out of ammo. ^^;
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Re: Drowtales world Elves vs. Humans with...

Postby JohnGB0083 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:03 am

Raziel wrote:Looks like machine guns are in the lead, though I can't agree with that. If a mana shield can stop projectiles and in this case a bullet then why would allot of bullets matter, they can just stand there with there shield up until the human is out of ammo. ^^;


Perhaps, but does the shield use up energy? Don't forget human machine guns are just one example of WWI tech you all so have long-range artillery. If the shield uses up energy every time it's hit than the elves holding it up would eventually collapse from exhaustion.
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