Clearing up Common Misconceptions

Re: Clearing up Common Misconceptions

Postby Delta Green » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:46 pm

No, it isn't a human society. But in terms of defining them as we are currently able to as readers, they are. It's the same as morality and suchwhat. We define them as we are currently capable as human beings. Ergo, while the Drow would not define themselves as bastards, or have any concept of bastardization and legitimacy, they are still bastards in the eyes of the reader and the actual description of the term.
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Re: Clearing up Common Misconceptions

Postby blackshade10 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:47 pm

Delta Green wrote:No, it isn't a human society. But in terms of defining them as we are currently able to as readers, they are. It's the same as morality and suchwhat. We define them as we are currently capable as human beings. Ergo, while the Drow would not define themselves as bastards, or have any concept of bastardization and legitimacy, they are still bastards in the eyes of the reader and the actual description of the term.


No, as we expect all backgrounds written for the DTRPG to be written as a drow background, the use of the term Bastard is inaccurate. We really don't care what it is in the eyes of the reader, in the eyes of the drow there are no bastards.
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Re: Clearing up Common Misconceptions

Postby Delta Green » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:00 pm

blackshade10 wrote:No, as we expect all backgrounds written for the DTRPG to be written as a drow background, the use of the term Bastard is inaccurate. We really don't care what it is in the eyes of the reader, in the eyes of the drow there are no bastards.


But the term still applies, regardless of the point of view. Even if a Drow character couldn't define the term correctly, it's still possible to label the Drow as such. Just not from an in universe perspective.

As a sidenote, what would their concept of legitimacy be? Would it follow matrilineal lines as their society does? Seeing as they don't have marriage in a traditional sense, how would their inheritances and similar issues be handled?
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Re: Clearing up Common Misconceptions

Postby blackshade10 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:05 pm

Delta Green wrote:
blackshade10 wrote:No, as we expect all backgrounds written for the DTRPG to be written as a drow background, the use of the term Bastard is inaccurate. We really don't care what it is in the eyes of the reader, in the eyes of the drow there are no bastards.


But the term still applies, regardless of the point of view. Even if a Drow character couldn't define the term correctly, it's still possible to label the Drow as such. Just not from an in universe perspective.

As a sidenote, what would their concept of legitimacy be? Would it follow matrilineal lines as their society does? Seeing as they don't have marriage in a traditional sense, how would their inheritances and similar issues be handled?


That is why the bastard term doesn't apply. It only follows the female, and seeing as legitimacy, where the bastard term originates, lies in Law, in which the Drow are lacking in legitimacy laws, it follows who the drow says. If the Illharess says "She is my heir." Then that drow is the heir; deal with it. If she wants to give all her belongings to someone who isn't her child, then so be it. Inheritance laws mean nothing, as there ARE no inheritance laws. If you want to take your mothers stuff after she dies even if she left it to someone else, you can certainly try. Drow society largely revolves around who has a bigger stick/who's better at manipulating the sticks.
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Re: Clearing up Common Misconceptions

Postby Delta Green » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:10 pm

I understand the legal part of the term, but it's also a societal aspect. I'm just saying that I can describe them as such, but my character cannot.

It's disappointing about the lack of inheritance laws. Could make for some good roleplaying if one has to fight the laws and whatnot surrounding the death of a powerful relative. Was hoping for something more than just a free for all.
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Re: Clearing up Common Misconceptions

Postby blackshade10 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:12 pm

Delta Green wrote:I understand the legal part of the term, but it's also a societal aspect. I'm just saying that I can describe them as such, but my character cannot.

It's disappointing about the lack of inheritance laws. Could make for some good roleplaying if one has to fight the laws and whatnot surrounding the death of a powerful relative. Was hoping for something more than just a free for all.


Well, you, as a person, can call them that all you want, but putting it in a written background will be marked as inaccurate. Just something to remember.

And sorry, but Drow aren't exactly big on laws, what with them lacking much of a central government.
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Re: Clearing up Common Misconceptions

Postby Paladin Tim » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:14 pm

Delta Green wrote:I understand the legal part of the term, but it's also a societal aspect. I'm just saying that I can describe them as such, but my character cannot.

It's disappointing about the lack of inheritance laws. Could make for some good roleplaying if one has to fight the laws and whatnot surrounding the death of a powerful relative. Was hoping for something more than just a free for all.


How could it be a societal aspect when drow society doesn't have bastards? Forgive the comparison, but it's like calling...say...dolphins bastards, or cats. Marriage, and thus bastardry, has importance in our society because we gave it importance. Referring to non-humans who don't marry as "bastards" is just silly. It's like calling snails bisexual because of their hermaphroditism or something.

edit: Or saying dolphins are cripples because they can't walk.

edit2: Or, regarding the latter part of your post, you'd still need to fight and struggle in the event of a powerful relative with no clear heir dying.
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Re: Clearing up Common Misconceptions

Postby Hetros » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:25 pm

Look, bastard is a term that's only applicable when it's considered a BAD thing not to know who your father is. When it's just a matter of course, there's no term for it. When something is common, there's no need to make a name for it that specifies it as different.

Far more likely, there would be a word for Drow who grow up knowing who their father WAS, since that's actually a far less common thing than not knowing who your father was.

It's kinda like we don't have a word for "A person who can speak", that's a matter of course, the vast majority of people can speak, and it's very rare when we run into somebody who is physically incapable of speaking. We don't NEED a word for it. We DO, however, need a word for "A person who cannot speak" (the term is "Mute"), because that's very rare.

In the same way, we, as westerners, don't NEED a single word/term for someone who is born knowing both their parents. "A legitimate child" uses a couple of words that are not specific to that situation, legitimate being able to be used in many instances not related to knowing who your parents are/your parents being married when you're born. We have the word "Bastard" to distinguish the group that is outside of the norm, if it were the norm for one's parents not to have a life bond / not to know who one of your parents was, then obviously we would not have such a word to distinguish the group.
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Re: Clearing up Common Misconceptions

Postby Svelt Rho'Vannion » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:36 pm

A more appropriate insult would be "daddy's boy/girl" or a more sophisticated insult "Fatherchild" to indicate a child that was so unimportant or terribly unfortunate enough to be raised by a father instead of a mother.

I do understand that Delta Green means that we as humans could refer to a 'bastard' child among drow by our own standards. But, by our standards, a bastard is a child out of marriage. Therefore all drow are 'bastards'. Which makes calling one a bastard extremely moot.
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Re: Clearing up Common Misconceptions

Postby DarkenVice » Tue May 25, 2010 6:53 pm

Matriarchal does not mean Matrilineal. I want to state that first because as we have seen the Drow are both.

Matrilineal meaning that they trace descent through the mother, and Matriarchal because woman rule.

The reason why children of a male are not considered members of his house is because by matrilineal descent THEY ARE NOT members of his family. The same applies to Patrilineal cultures like the Bedu, who do not consider the relatives of the mother as relatives of her children.

Via inheritance standards the child of a male could never inherit his property because in fact it has no relation outside him to his family.
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Re: Clearing up Common Misconceptions

Postby DeadPigeonGolem » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:17 pm

An interesting conundrum:

Take a clan.
Kill off all the viable heiresses, leaving only a male individual of sufficient maturity and ability to take over a clan.
What happens? Does a puppet female get chosen or something?
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Re: Clearing up Common Misconceptions

Postby blackshade10 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:38 pm

DeadPigeonGolem wrote:An interesting conundrum:

Take a clan.
Kill off all the viable heiresses, leaving only a male individual of sufficient maturity and ability to take over a clan.
What happens? Does a puppet female get chosen or something?



99.9999% of the time?

Clan dies.


If the male is extraordinarily clever and secretive? Yeah, choses a female and if he can, puppets her. Technically not the leader, at least to everyone's knowledge.
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Re: Clearing up Common Misconceptions

Postby DeadPigeonGolem » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:46 pm

So none of that epic Chinese Empress badassery? Well, inversed, but you know what I mean.
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Re: Clearing up Common Misconceptions

Postby blackshade10 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:55 pm

DeadPigeonGolem wrote:So none of that epic Chinese Empress badassery? Well, inversed, but you know what I mean.


Yeah, fairly unlikely.
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Re: Clearing up Common Misconceptions

Postby DeadPigeonGolem » Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:22 pm

Armor, Weaponry, and Other Military Considerations

Right, so it turns out that heavy armor capable of deflecting most large swords (bastard swords, claymores, etc.) is prohibitively expensive but does NOT turn you into a lumbering tank. Battle Armor, distinct from Tournament Armor, allowed you almost complete freedom of motion, allowing you to do everything you could normally due outside of going to the bathroom, and even then most models probably came with detachable crotch/buttock panels. It should NOT BE ASSUMED that an individual wearing heavy armor in their profile is unagile. This seems to be common misconception among anybody who hasn't spent an inordinate amount of time researching non-ballistic body armor (ballistic body armor is designed to protect against high-power rifle rounds, which don't exist in Drowtales).

Secondly, swords are NOT heavy as all hell. Two handed swords are NOT that heavy (many examples don't weigh much more than ten pounds) and can still be used with a lot of finesse. Now, a rapier (that weighs like 12 ounces (exaggeration)) is much easier to use with finesse, but that is only in comparison to a sword's finessing ability. A good example is like trying to paint the Mona Lisa's eyelashes with a 1/4 inch wide brush versus a 3/4 inch brush head. You can do it with both, but it's much easier with the 1/4 inch.



Source:
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/aams/hd_aams.htm


The source also details many more misconceptions about military affairs.
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