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Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby goblin6 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:04 pm

Well, diplomacy is on the verge of breaking down. And I for one, am beginning to like these dragons less by the minute. They still refuse to tell us why they want to know the location of our home. The words "Tongue is failing" does not bold well to me, and I don't think they meant the language barrier between us. And now the dragon called his buddies to the ship. What a headache this is.

We stand our ground and risk escalating this further, we stand down and the dragons will think they have free reign to do whatever on our ship. Worse it seems like most of the warriors are off board protecting Anjhi. I hope they've been exercising, cause we need to regroup fast. A fight is the last thing we need right now. As of this post, someone already post an LA advice to ask the elders to call off their soldiers on our ship. We need to figure out what else we can do to diffuse the situation.
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Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby Eltharrion on Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:42 pm

Draw a visible, existing line (even burn the top of the deck a bit if needed) on our feet and back up just behind that so that weapons reach the line. Make it clear that "crossing this line will end in battle". Still, we shouldn't be attackers here in any case. Until they draw a weapon and use it against us, most logical thing is to hold the line.

Naturally, the moment at this point even one of them strikes, we must retaliate with all the force against this whole group on our deck. Not just the one guy that does something stupid. We strike one of them down, they'll just create more hate to us when glaring us down. We force them all off (either walking or feet first), they understand that stepping back on is not allowed on our part.

...But yeah, I see this going downhill spiral from here on. Even if we would avoid using lethal force on them, they'd still probably try to kill us in combat. And we don't really know what kind of morale/sense of honor they have (are they "They killed Za-re-qa! We must avenge him in blood" or "Meh, captain kicked the bucket. So, who's in charge now?")
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Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby Pelinore on Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:22 pm

Quoting the SB to expose my point of view:

17:05 Pelinore (Pelinore): And we don't really know what want the mentionned dragon.
17:05 Pelinore (Pelinore): It doesn't change the global situation.
17:04 Ze'carga (goblin6): Then it proceed to the scenario you pointed out.
17:04 Pelinore (Pelinore): How can we make them not willing to attack us? by proving them we are NOT ennemies.
17:04 Ze'carga (goblin6): Technically for this immediate situation, it started when one jarhead thinks he can lord over the jarhead of the other side.
17:03 Pelinore (Pelinore): The idea like "We must not step back!" "don't show weaknesses!" and "we have our pride" had been really often at the origin of many war and failed peace negotiations.
17:02 Pelinore (Pelinore): For the first factor, this is without any call: They can.
So, as we can't influence on this factor, we must influence on the second.
17:01 Ze'carga (goblin6): But we need to at least find a way to diffuse the situation without resorting to violence if we could and maintain our dignity.
17:01 Pelinore (Pelinore): 1-"Their capacity to take over the ship and kill us
2-Their capacity to take over the ship and kill us
17:00 Pelinore (Pelinore): I'm pragmatic. There is two factors influencing the possibily they take over our ship and kill us all (after extracting informaitons by force)
16:58 Ze'carga (goblin6): If worst comes to worst, we should at least put up a valiant effort to fight our way out.
16:58 Pelinore (Pelinore): I see it more like this: we either start on a good point and slowly start building good relations, or we find our game over here.
16:57 Pelinore (Pelinore): We are on a floating island, outnumbered with dragons with spears. The only exit is our airship. Airship's Balloon-->pointy spears-->screwed.
16:57 Ze'carga (goblin6): I rather not take this lying down. We either salvage this and walk out as allies. Or we fight our way out.
16:55 Pelinore (Pelinore): Let's face it: If they are really hostile, we're screwed anyway.
16:51 Ze'carga (goblin6): And we're separated, if I was a Lannister, I would either take Anjhi or the remaining crew back on the ship hostage. Use one to force the other into submission.
16:48 Pelinore (Pelinore): yeah. This is the most important part: they could easily take over our ship.
16:47 Ze'carga (goblin6): We got wounded on board and most of our warriors are off board. They could easily take over the ship if they choose too.
16:45 Ze'carga (goblin6): The first part I can understand. But barging into our ship without our permission is where I draw the line.
16:44 Ze'carga (goblin6): Yeah, we intrude their air space, swarm around us with spears. We prevent them from entering the inner halls of our ship, they swarm with spears.
16:43 Pelinore (Pelinore): Do not forget language barrier and cultural differences, too.
16:43 Ze'carga (goblin6): I'm still hesitant to giving the location of our home since they're underlings strut around our ship like they own it.
16:42 Pelinore (Pelinore): Fighting here against them is not an option. Except if you think "rather die than telling them where is ama'varde"
16:41 Ze'carga (goblin6): So far, they're do a good job trying to make us a threat to them.
16:40 Pelinore (Pelinore): And we have no choice: if decide "ok, we don't like you, we depart", the more careful choice for them would be to prevent us to spread their existence at this potential danger
16:39 Pelinore (Pelinore): If we want to have real relations, we need to prove them before than no, it's not the case.
16:38 Pelinore (Pelinore): It's totally understandable than they want to know where we live. We are potentially the vanguard of an army of drow on airship.
16:37 Pelinore (Pelinore): And we are not on an equal ground for informations: we know were they live, they don't.
16:36 Pelinore (Pelinore): The fact is: we are not on an equal ground for negociations. We are outnumbered, and cannot flee.
16:34 Elhvir (Eltharrion): Remember how in the PtP 1 there was the big combat that decided our future? I have a feel this will be similar situation...
16:33 Laerei (Laerei): No I think the language is failing, not the "peace talks" as there are no peace talks
16:30 Ze'carga (goblin6): It's hard to trust someone if all they do is make demands but offer no explanation.
16:29 Ze'carga (goblin6): In our defense, they try to barge into our ship like they own it. Their leaders refuse to tell us why they demand the location of our home. Info
16:25 Pelinore (Pelinore): well, here comes the worst enemies of pacifist discussions: distrust, fear and panic.




Seriously, I think you didn't understood the situation we are in, here. If we start a conflict, we not going to engage a war who will not be worth it. We're going to die here. An'jhali and the crew. Game over. Because we are facing an entire city with some dozens of warriors, we cannot take them down, whatever the plan. And because we are in a flying island above the clouds and than our only way to flee can be punctured and send crashing by the dragons, we cannot flee. If we engage, we loose.

So, if we want to survive, we must avoid the conflict at all cost, and not becoming angry on questions of pride ("Hey! who are they taking them for, lording us like this and going where they want?" "we must preserve our dignity! show no weakness!").
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Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby Whizzard on Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:58 pm

And a battle will not yield any benefits either. All in all, it's best to try a friendly outcome from all this crap.

People don't seem to understand that if we don't get anything but strife from this trip, it was all for nothing. While establishing a friendly relationship with the dragons will give us a huge amount of possibilities from trade to new technology to possible alliances. As much as you itch to fight, it's a stupid idea even if dragons tend to be arrogant and sticking their nose where they shouldn't. We'll lose so much more in battle than from giving in to them a little for the sake of trust.

The biggest issue here is that we can't communicate with the dragons on board the ship, so we need to get the authority there ASAP to sort out the situation.
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Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby Eltharrion on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:15 pm

So we kinda agree that no fighting, absolutely NO FIGHTING, unless dragons try to exterminate us (if someone tries to kill you, you don't just open your arms wide and invite them to do that).

Hold the line, be firm but use threatening postures ("threatening" as in "Ima goin' to kill ya biatsh!") and shaking weapons at them only if nothing else works.

At the same time though, we should kinda prepare to EXPLAIN certain things to them. If we get some of the dragons who actually understand to make orders to stand down, or anything.

At this point, this whole situation is just another Balkan Powder Keg, ready to blow from slightest spark. Better just try to keep situation where it is, and not add more variables to it...
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Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby goblin6 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:25 pm

Eltharrion wrote:So we kinda agree that no fighting, absolutely NO FIGHTING, unless dragons try to exterminate us (if someone tries to kill you, you don't just open your arms wide and invite them to do that).

Hold the line, be firm but use threatening postures ("threatening" as in "Ima goin' to kill ya biatsh!") and shaking weapons at them only if nothing else works.

At the same time though, we should kinda prepare to EXPLAIN certain things to them. If we get some of the dragons who actually understand to make orders to stand down, or anything.

At this point, this whole situation is just another Balkan Powder Keg, ready to blow from slightest spark. Better just try to keep situation where it is, and not add more variables to it...


Elhvir, you character possess light affinity. Try to replicate what Altimi did and use your affinity to create images to explain to the dragons we meant no harm and our guards were only doing their job. We need to exhaust every peaceful solution to diffuse the situation.
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Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby The_Blank on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:35 pm

so in the end we're likely to die because someone threw panties at a dragon

not how I saw Visal dieing

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Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby Dalvyserran on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:39 pm

guys

chill

It's NOT the panties that brought alarm, it's people denying 1 dragon from inspecting the ship innards. If the situation were reversed, we would be calling guards for backup too.
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Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby goblin6 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:45 pm

Our guards were doing their job, which is to prevent unlawful intrusion into the ship's inner hull, you can't blame them for doing what their job. If they had ask us if they can inspect our ship, then it might turn out differently. No matter who is in which role, barging into a secured area without the permission of the owner is unlawful intrusion. Anjhi gave no orders to let the dragons waltz into our ship, so the general assumption is to guard the ship.
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Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby Dalvyserran on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:51 pm

She also gave orders not to provoke them. Telling that single guard to shove off is causing more guards to appear.
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Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby Eltharrion on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:57 pm

goblin6 wrote:Elhvir, you character possess light affinity. Try to replicate what Altimi did and use your affinity to create images to explain to the dragons we meant no harm and our guards were only doing their job. We need to exhaust every peaceful solution to diffuse the situation.

Good idea, but it requires me to be subscribing member, which I'm not at the moment (had some problem with my bank system past few weeks and had to temporarily stop every monthly pay I'm doing. Thus, currently I'm not subscribed member. hopefully get it fixed in time.)
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Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby goblin6 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:58 pm

Last week's LA said otherwise. That one dragon soldier bumped into one of us, trying to enter into the ship's interior, the guard the dragon bump into told him he's not allow to go there. All and all, the dragon grunt initiated the conflict and we respond by upping security.
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Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby Kami-Kahzy on Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:24 am

Hey, I don't usually butt into debates like this, but I had a semi-brilliant idea to diffuse the situation.

What if we tried to explain that the panty throwing is just a friendly game with us? If we start a panty fight, it would show the dragons we just wanted to be friendly with them and share some of our culture.

Best case scenario they actually join in and have some fun with us. Worst case they get disgusted that a bunch of adults are throwing their underwear at each other and leave of their own volition.

Thoughts?
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Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby goblin6 on Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:29 am

There's a language barrier between us and the common dragon, only their elder have some understanding of our language. And unfortunately, they're busy having peace talk with Anjhi.
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Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby Kami-Kahzy on Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:39 am

It wouldn't be terribly difficult to just start a panty fight to get the idea across.
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