The heart of Ther'avare! Join in the conversations and make yourself known amongst your clan, and participate in its life, culture, and art!

Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby goblin6 on Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:15 am

Dalvyserran wrote:How fucking ironic that today's update is an exact copy of what I've been saying since this began.

But nah leys keep acting tough and making our captors even more suspicious of us. This wouldn't have happened if people's pride hadn't gotten in the way. First the dragons send one guy, next they send a company, now they guarantee bloodshed if you don't let them inspect the ship for shit that could hurt them.

How hard is it to say yes the first time? We to not have anything of value for them to take... If for some unfathomable reason you guys think we do, please share.


minalia wrote:Kinda why i did not wanted to even act. This was to damn easy to spot early on. Pride is a dangerous game, specially when you in someone's turf that is far..far more advanced then you and got over a thousand years worth of firepower at their disposal.

honestly im getting tired of this pointless grin at the other and try and look all tough and macho. I am gonna go and read some dragon books in a public library full of old dusty tomes. Love to have some scholars to tag along. Just sitting at a table with a few dozen books trying to understand should be more fun then this pointless pissing contest.

You want to end this game. go ahead and freaking piss them off already. I for one will do exactly what i was meant to do. Gather knowledge that might be of some use to us later on.

PS. anyone willing to attend the campaign tell me what hats and role you wanna play so i can send the note to ST.


It's not about pride, though some warriors will think it that way, it's about formality, respect of the rules, manners and doing things via the proper channels. The moment we landed, we knew the dragons are interested in our ship, what with one of their engineers going all gaga, so it was only a matter of time before they want to inspect it. I'm reluctant to do that, but it was inevitable. HAD THEY ASK BEFOREHAND, I would be fine with it, but they didn't. Instead, some random grunt just barges in unannounced and without permission. I don't know about everyone else, but dropping in out of the blue is considered rude unless you're some high rank official doing random inspection. Imagine in RL, if a foreign soldier just walk into another country's military base unannounced, what is the likely reaction? Not to mentioned there was language barrier between the grunts and us, which further increases the potential of a misunderstanding.

Had the role been reverse and one of our warriors just barges in without permission from either us or the other person, shit would hit the fan, we would have instigated a conflict on home soil and you guys would be chewing out the warriors. Again, I'm reluctant, but I'm willing to let the dragons inspect our ship under our supervision. Nobody likes bureaucracy, but like in RL, there are proper channels for situations like these.
PTP-Ze'carga D'rak & Van'deer
User avatar
goblin6
Vel'akar
 
Posts: 1483
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:32 am
Clan: Nal'sarkoth

Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby Durlyn Val'Sarghress on Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:47 am

James Rye wrote:
Durlyn Val'Sarghress wrote:
Elder+1 soldier can enter+look through the ship.Anji+2 Warriors are guides



That seems like a good option wording


Thanks, Dur. :)
How's the demon seed doing inside you btw?^^

If Daven makes right of his promise to give me that third membership spot he got to me, I either gonna advise
"What do you know about our ship?Do you have scrolls/books telling about it?"
or
"Why do you call our feral allies "pests"? They're annoying, but no trouble.". <3



Meh, it naws on my soul and tells me to spit pea soup every now and gain, but for the most part I'm holding up fine }:3

BTW, are you gonna add the option we were discussing earlier or should I or another warrior?

Those other two options sound like fine questions too, though the first option of action takes precedence
Image
User avatar
Durlyn Val'Sarghress
Dark Chibi Demon
 
Posts: 8875
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:20 pm
Location: To the right of Illharess Quain'tana's throne
Clan: Sarghress

Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby Tsukiko on Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:46 am

Okay, I usually don't speak up much, but here is one thing i wanted to say, before I regret not doing so.

Many players are getting worried, if not mad, at the Dragons wanting to enter our ship and see it.
I agree it is not okay for them to just enter like that, and wound our fellow clan members!

But that said, I think it is a REASONNABLE demand from them.
Here is my point.
Imagine the situation in reverse. We are home, in Ama'varde, thinking ourselves in security, with our family, childre, friends...
And then, suddenly, a large ship arrive, filled with unknown people from a race we don't know much about, inside our homeland.
We don't understand what they want. We don't even know how many of them is there in the ship.
Now, honestly, how would you react?
Won't you want to inspect them, to be sure you and your relatives are not in danger?

I think we would have done exactly the way the dragons are.
So please every one, calm down. Let's show them we don't have ill intentions. WE are the intruders here, and everything can be still worked out peacefully.
Letting them have a tour in our ship doesn't mean we surrender, or anything the like.
It is normal they want to know who they are facing.
And yes, we have ballistas, and a combat golem on the way. Then what? They don't expect us to be unharmed while exploring the world!

Hope to be heard...
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest drow.
User avatar
Tsukiko
Vel'akar
 
Posts: 1144
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Frogs eaters country
Clan: Illhar'dro

Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby Dalvyserran on Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:23 pm

To them, we're acting like we're hiding illegal drugs in our ship.
Height Chart for various races
Cameo appearances catalog

Beldrobbaen San'dellora Dizen'ralith House
Kyorl'solenurn Shinhwa
Sullisin'rune Min'issya - Ash'mita
Sharen Daksha'yani - Chigusa
Illhar'dro Mersedeh - Sasarai
Sarghress Awdri
Nal'sarkoth Kane'ohe
User avatar
Dalvyserran
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 4714
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: You can't make me have fun!
Clan: Beldrobbaen

Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby Teron on Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:44 pm

Honestly? I agree with what Tsukiko said.
Last edited by Teron on Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gultyrr - Tei'kaliath Warrior
User avatar
Teron
Demon
 
Posts: 554
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:36 pm
Location: 'Body: Somewhere in the Ruhrpott.' 'Mind: At the edge of Insanity.'
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby goblin6 on Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:02 pm

Everything that Tsukiko said, I've already point out earlier. Again, while I'm reluctant to let the dragons into our ship, they make a good point. My beef is that some grunt just barges in unannounced, did he had orders from his superiors to inspect our ship? If so, why didn't they tell us ahead of time to avoid our current situation? A lot of conflict both in-game and RL could be avoided if both sides just communicated with each other clearly.

Tsukiko wrote:But that said, I think it is a REASONNABLE demand from them.
Here is my point.
Imagine the situation in reverse. We are home, in Ama'varde, thinking ourselves in security, with our family, childre, friends...
And then, suddenly, a large ship arrive, filled with unknown people from a race we don't know much about, inside our homeland.
We don't understand what they want. We don't even know how many of them is there in the ship.
Now, honestly, how would you react?
Won't you want to inspect them, to be sure you and your relatives are not in danger?


As I pointed out earlier, you also neglect to mention if one of our warriors just barges into the unknown group's ship without permission from either Anjhi or the group. Had the situation been reverse, we would be a little nervous too. But, said unknown group, while armed, have not shown any signs of hostilities. To provoke them would be to invite conflict on home soil. How do you avoid turning a neutral group into a enemy? You tell them ahead of time that we're going to check out their ship, and not send a random soldier to barge in like some uninvited frat boy crashing a part. The fact they didn't tell us ahead of time makes me suspicious of them and wary of their nature.
PTP-Ze'carga D'rak & Van'deer
User avatar
goblin6
Vel'akar
 
Posts: 1483
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:32 am
Clan: Nal'sarkoth

Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby Tsukiko on Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:11 pm

I do agree with you! Maybe you missed the sentence just before what you quoted?
That was not right that this grunt just tried to help himself on our ship.
But now the situation went so far, and it was asked (well, not in a much friendly way, but still asked), we should cooporate and be more comprehensive.
It's up to us now to calm things up.
Again, this is my point of view, nothing else.
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest drow.
User avatar
Tsukiko
Vel'akar
 
Posts: 1144
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Frogs eaters country
Clan: Illhar'dro

Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby Timotheus on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:57 pm

It IS important to establish certain boundaries in our relations with any new peoples. The ship is our home and represents our embassy, its interior is invitation only (as is the deck but let's not push it). If we can't do that then we're captives and might as well act the part.

In our current disadvantageous position we can't afford to be too stiff necked but certain lines must be drawn, and access to the interior of the ship is one. A formal request by a government authority to inspect the interior (especially one who can communicate with us) should be honored with an escorted tour. Wandering rubberneckers are to be politely denied access.

In real life a more formal command structure would have assigned warriors to guard positions at the entrance with orders as to how to block access without threat, which would have probably made a difference. But we operate on a rather anarchy based system of who's in charge and this is what you get.
If I knew what I was doing I'd be dangerous.
User avatar
Timotheus
Vel'akar
 
Posts: 1762
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:38 pm
Location: Either building something or kibitzing someone else's project. Mana, boats, and mills!
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby James Rye on Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:12 pm

Timotheus wrote:It IS But we operate on a rather anarchy based system of who's in charge and this is what you get.


Maybe it's time to pull out the ranked system again, just without any huge advantages or disadvantages compared to other players like
First Mate
Machinist Head Chief
Security Chief
Navigator
Ship Master (responsible for certain parts of the ship like ballon, deck, storage room ,etc, Maybe this one could be used as a general ranked description? Like a Ship master for the ktichen, the machine room, the security, etc.?)
Chef de Cuisine
Head Physician
Golem Engineer Chief
Mana specialists
Trade master
etc. etc.
Just random and not really serious meant posts. XD

Though there is quite some stuff that can be organized on the ship and its structure like crew stuff, clan stuff, outsider stuff, repair stuff, etc. We just don't really bother with that and so far the ship hasn't taken or shown any damage though it being in the air for days with wind and rain and cold should leave sooner or later some scars we need to take care of.
User avatar
James Rye
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 3329
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:02 pm
Clan: Kyorl'solenurn

Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby minalia on Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:12 am

No..just no.

I played that game and it sucked balls.
A survivalist should not be a pessimist, he should always be positive, happy and enjoying life more than anyone else because he understands that each minute of peace we have is precious and unique, and he never takes it for granted.
User avatar
minalia
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 2753
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:45 pm
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby James Rye on Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:35 am

minalia wrote:No..just no.

I played that game and it sucked balls.


I know that, have been there at its end.
And what if we organizes ourselves in such groups like with the surface colonization with builders, warriors, farmers, gatherers, etc? Aka make three groups where people can join to work on the ship like ship crew who handls everything ship manners like reparing, handling machine, doing check-ups, a security team aka warriors and scouts with an actual plan and training on what to do /how to fight on a flying ship and a group which is for the rest of the stuff the other two groups don't handle much. Cause we are pretty chaotic and unorganized at this moment and normally such huge ships have a hierarchy and crews and specialist teams to handle different matters cause if anything goes broken on such a big ship for 300+ persons then we could fall outta the sky. And that could hurt alot even if we hit water.
User avatar
James Rye
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 3329
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:02 pm
Clan: Kyorl'solenurn

Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby Frost on Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:46 pm

James Rye wrote:
minalia wrote:No..just no.

I played that game and it sucked balls.


I know that, have been there at its end.
And what if we organizes ourselves in such groups like with the surface colonization with builders, warriors, farmers, gatherers, etc? Aka make three groups where people can join to work on the ship like ship crew who handls everything ship manners like reparing, handling machine, doing check-ups, a security team aka warriors and scouts with an actual plan and training on what to do /how to fight on a flying ship and a group which is for the rest of the stuff the other two groups don't handle much. Cause we are pretty chaotic and unorganized at this moment and normally such huge ships have a hierarchy and crews and specialist teams to handle different matters cause if anything goes broken on such a big ship for 300+ persons then we could fall outta the sky. And that could hurt alot even if we hit water.


I wasn't around when these kind of systems were in place, so I won't claim to know whether implementing it again would work or not and whether other players would even like it. Personally though I too would like to have more organized crew structure and maybe it would even help some newer players to sort of "find a place in the clan".

Maybe make a poll on the topic?
Frost
Nether Spawn
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:47 pm
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby Eltharrion on Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:55 pm

Such "grouping" wouldn't even have to be that broad, maybe have even five or six groups around?
Also, no forced need to join anyone. You can still be "helper handyman" to anyone and do whatever, but such grouping would allow organized talking on what people could/should/would do.
Also? It'd maybe drop the advice count down slightly in times like this where we have more than 30 advices divided between LA and EA...
Elhvir - Ex-mercenary from Chel, PtP
User avatar
Eltharrion
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 4178
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:47 pm
Location: Body: Finland - Mind: The cracks between universe
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby Dalvyserran on Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:23 pm

An organized group of people looks good on paper, but any one of them can grow large and force an agenda (aldun family)

Measurements need to be in place to prevent that first, otherwise a structured arrangement is better than what we have now
Height Chart for various races
Cameo appearances catalog

Beldrobbaen San'dellora Dizen'ralith House
Kyorl'solenurn Shinhwa
Sullisin'rune Min'issya - Ash'mita
Sharen Daksha'yani - Chigusa
Illhar'dro Mersedeh - Sasarai
Sarghress Awdri
Nal'sarkoth Kane'ohe
User avatar
Dalvyserran
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 4714
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: You can't make me have fun!
Clan: Beldrobbaen

Re: Dragon diplomacy.

Postby goblin6 on Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:59 pm

Okay, we're not dead, awesome. I'll assume everyone have already read the LA update, so where do we want to go on the island? So far, the areas posted in the LA as of this post are:

Library/Archive: Me
Golem Workshop: Tohya
Trade Shop/Bazaar: Minalia
Museum/Art Gallery: Az'zael

The advices that gets five or more votes are the ones that passes, this is the first time since before PTP3 where requirements are placed on us now. This might be a good thing, since now we have to be frugal of posting advices and spreading our votes evenly as possible to pass as many advices.
PTP-Ze'carga D'rak & Van'deer
User avatar
goblin6
Vel'akar
 
Posts: 1483
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:32 am
Clan: Nal'sarkoth

PreviousNext

Return to Community Centre

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests