Fight or Flight?

[Ash'arion]

Ok people, we've gotten ourselves WAY too worked up over this Nal outpost incident, and I think we should have a concrete indicator of where everybody's thoughts are regarding what we should do before we try to do anything. Why? Because whether we follow Queen Anjhali's advice or not, we need to commit ENTIRELY to one action or the other. We either stay and support this Nal base and everything that implies, or we leave after delivering the warning. Yes, that includes civilian evacuation, because we cannot hope to try to contribute to that without getting sucked into the battle. So I'm setting up a poll here. You only get 2 choices, because ultimately, that's all the clan has regarding this situation. Decisions must be made by the next LA. Preferably sooner.

[choby40k]

In it to Win it!

[goblin6]

You already know my stance on this matter, we stay and offer assistance.

[Ash'arion]

Yes, I do. However, it's easier to show solid data than to try to remember everybody's opinion. I know what your vote is. I can't vote for you. That's not how voting works.

[Ash'arion]

I wanted to stay impartial to this, but I've decided to vote in favor of leaving once the letter is delivered. It's in character. When the queen says "I propose we fly away." well, it's probably a hint that it's a good idea. Further, Kern indicated in the livestream this last Saturday that this venture will be a waste of our time, like a side quest with no rewards. I really don't like wasting time, so in character or out, I'm no longer supporting this fight.

[laserkid]

The GM needs to be careful about what is scripted from Anji. Having her say something like that, then say she is open to opinion intentionally or unintentionaly influenceing free accounts that don't come to the forum.

The Nal may have taken that district after he killed the Val's there, but we abandoned it for days and assumed it was ours. The big thing is after the Black Sun Siege. They offered us refuge from being dispersed into Chel or overran by the Sarghress. The provided us Information about and escort to the colony. The sent our Illharis to school posing as a Nal'sarkoth where she learned magic and became a Summoner. They guarded the colony as it was built and stayed there providing information about the surface. They continue to this day, pay for colonist to come. They continue to this day trade with us and provide information. We are jointly invested in a airship-yard which it the key to success in the age of the colonies to come. we also have one on board that will likely be reporting to someone whats up.

If we forsake them it will get back to them and we screw ourselves long term.

[Jonarus_Drakus]

Just 'abandoning' them is in bad taste, they have helped us many times in the past, with no guarantee of any real return on their 'investment' (a secure source of over-world good aside)... But then again we have so little information on just what is going on here... At this point, for all we know it *could* be some sort of betrayal/trap...

Ultimately, I'm leaning towards staying and helping (if needed). But that is not to say I am 'above' just ditching them either... Only the next update(s) will give me the level of certainty (one way or the other) I really need to commit to a course of action, rather than mere 'theoretical support'...

~JD

[Ash'arion]

Look. I understand how you guys feel about this, but as I keep telling goblin in Skype, the difference we'll be able to make here is insignificant in comparison to the contribution to the Nal's own garrison. We did help them -by sending out a feral scout with what little information we managed to obtain on the situation. The drow mindset is very different from that of humans, and that of corporate powerhouses is another thing entirely. Superiority is not a complex here, it's a way of life. I think there's as good a chance as not, if not better, that they'll take our attempts at helping them with this raid as an insult to their own hiring capabilities. Besides, if they were not able to stand up to this raid without more than the warning we're having sent now, then our actions here would only prolong the inevitable. We can't be there for them all the time, and judging by what you guys are saying about our lore history, it shows that we need them, not the other way around.

[laserkid]

I suppose we will see. The older players are like, hey the betrayed...not realizing we left a sizable chunk of Chel in chaos and anarchy While a lot of use played PtP: Farm-ville player did what they will ((commoner shit)). Not Machiavelli politics - like Kern wanted. The younger players see Anji say X...so they do Y.

[Catriana]

Some of the older players are in favor of leaving. A lot more than you think.

PtP2 required us to go above surface due to game mechanics. No matter what would have happened, the Black Sun would have conquered us and the Nal'sarkoth would have provided us with the business opportunity that we currently employ. We did not 'abandon' Chel, we had absolutely zero influence over anything in the grand scheme of things. Us staying or going would have had absolutely no impact on Chel'el'ssuloth. At all.

We are not Nal'sarkoth subordinates, we are not their friends, we are not their mercenaries. We are their business partners, a willing and minor investment on their part and it came with conditions (We had to accept Chelians and Mimians). They didn't 'give' us the colony, nor did they do it out of the kindness of their hearts. The reason I say this is because there seems to be this idea that we owe them fealty. We do not. They are business people first and foremost, they proved this when they snatched up the district that we were going to joint own with the Svart'elos(and thereby ruining our alliance with them as a result). We prove that we wish to stay on good business terms with them by honoring our agreements. We can stick our noses into their personal affairs, but we also could not and as long as we continued to fulfill our part of the deal we are not betraying them. We are not a sub-house, we are an independent faction, we do not pay them tribute.

If you want to stay and aid the Nal'sarkoth, do so because you feel it is the right thing, or because you think that maybe they'll reward us for aiding them in a venture that saved them money and resources. But please do not do it with the fear that if you do not you are somehow betraying the Nals. Giving them a warning is more than enough concerning support, as they have not directly intervened in our affairs in the past. They guided, offered advice, but they did not spare us warriors. And yes, Kern did say that this was a side quest, and that it was nothing to stress over. We either do it or we don't, but it is 100% optional, which once again goes back to my point that by leaving we are not betraying the Nals. If that were the case, it would not be a minor mission, nor would it be something to shrug off.

[laserkid]

Because we lost...to the same foreigners that slaughtered our ancestors....yet wierdly enough they didn't rout and kill us all. They held back and moved on.

The sarg would have did that. There is no damned honor in Chel clans. Especially for imperial lovers like ourselves.

I understate that you're character is honor-less as Chel migrant...TK are not the same.

If this doesn't happen like I wish i would I plan to do so, because that is what my char would do...

Honorless dogs have no meaning in my char's life, except to beat down and prove honor is right.

[Jaibyrd]

Because we lost...to the same foreigners that slaughtered our ancestors....yet wierdly enough they didn't rout and kill us all. They held back and moved on.

The sarg would have did that. There is no damned honor in Chel clans. Especially for imperial lovers like ourselves.

I understate that you're character is honor-less as Chel migrant...TK are not the same.

If this doesn't happen like I wish i would I plan to do so, because that is what my char would do...

Honorless dogs have no meaning in my char's life, except to beat down and prove honor is right.

Wow. Just wow.

Someone's the pot calling the kettle black. How is it honorable to tell another player - a player who might I add who has been playing PtP far longer than you and has a TK character - that their character is not honorable simply because she is giving her opinion on a game? Cat is not her character! She is a real person with feelings, just like all of us who play Path to Power!

THIS IS A GAME - JUST A GAME. I know we're all very attached to our characters, as I too do not want my character to die or the like, but damn. Laser, you should be ashamed of yourself for such insulting and rude behavior over A GAME. You are not your character, and if you are, that's just sad - BUT! It still does not excuse you from being so horrible to another player. Player, NOT character!

With that said, I say leave. Kern said this was 'a side quest' and its fully in our power to leave and come back later - he's even practically told us through Anji to get out of there. Allies are not, if this incident is leading to nonsense like this being spouted between players, then this crap isn't worth it.

[Ash'arion]

Ok... This has officially gotten way out of hand. And Laserkid, you might want to put a lid on that Chel immigrant = honorless bullshit. Because the former applies to a larger number of characters than it used to. And honestly? Honor really has no bearing on this situation. At all. It is a minor, insignificant side quest that Kern tossed at us to see how we would react. And the result would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic. The fact that the GM said that whether we participate in this battle is meaningless to the clan should drive home the point that the Nals can probably win without us. If they couldn't, then this fight would have meaning, because that outpost is comparatively speaking, very close to our home city. There is no reason for us to get more involved than sending this message, other than for the sake of doing so. And there is no justification for scattershot insults like the one you just sent.

[goblin6]

How about we all calm down for a moment here and let's all agree to disagree. We should all realize by now that nothing we say will change the minds of others on this issue. The advices to stay or leave have been posted days ago and nothing can change that. It is up to the clan as a whole to decide, but majority rule will dictate our next course of action. For good or ill, we commit to it even if half of us don't like it. I still stick by to my position to stay, but I also would like to apologize for my behavior these last few days to everyone, especially to Ash.

Our current situation maybe a sidequest, but as others have said, it is a game and I'm a bit of a completionist when it comes to RPG games. This being a game, I like to do sidequest for fun, not for profit although a reward in the end would be nice. Although some operate on a different mentality and prefer to go straight to the goal and they have a right to do so. But I think that's the problem here; it is a game where we can do almost whatever we want, but we do it as a group. So it is inevitable that players will have different ideas that will conflict with one another which eventually leads to inflammatory insults and people getting banned. Before Trey'la, it's been a very long time since anyone got banned and I hate to see anyone getting the boot just cause we can't agree on something. Although I may not agree with everyone's views, I value all of you guys as teammates and friends. So I've come to terms with this, if the clan chooses to leave, I'll comply and won't raise a stink over it (although for RP in-game purposes, my character will be all sad about it. My guy is a former Nal and mimian after all). Though I would at least like us to return to the Nal outpost at a later date to check up if anything major changed, just so we can all have something else to pointlessly argue over. Can't have us all holding hands, getting along and sing Kumbaya. That last bit was sarcasm.

[Catriana]

Though I would at least like us to return to the Nal outpost at a later date to check up if anything major changed

I think regardless of the outcome, it wouldn't be a bad idea to stop by on the way back home, as someone did point out (I think it was Ash?) that the outpost is fairly close to our settlement.