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Pick the wargolem you want to see get built and be used to kick some righteous ass.

Poll ended at Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:59 am

The Manticore. Designed by Eltharrion.
10
42%
The Clan Teikaliath Heavy Armor by Kearnaun
7
29%
The Reaper by Dycle.
5
21%
Tinkertoy Mk I designed by Fionn drawned by Kearnaun.
2
8%
 
Total votes : 24

Re: The wargolem melee design contest.

Postby Finn MacCool on Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:19 am

Eltharrion wrote:Plus, I was kinda under impression that we can store the unit quite easily in. (main body's measures are around 2,2m x 3,2m x 6m, if taking in head.)

that'd be 42.24m^3 or about 1.75 times the total storage (quarters included) i calculated for the ship with the information Suntiger gave here.
so even if one or both of us used rather low numbers, the golem would take a pretty big part of the room we have.
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Re: The wargolem melee design contest.

Postby Eltharrion on Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:57 am

Finn MacCool wrote:
Eltharrion wrote:Plus, I was kinda under impression that we can store the unit quite easily in. (main body's measures are around 2,2m x 3,2m x 6m, if taking in head.)

that'd be 42.24m^3 or about 1.75 times the total storage (quarters included) i calculated for the ship with the information Suntiger gave here.
so even if one or both of us used rather low numbers, the golem would take a pretty big part of the room we have.

Huh. Seems we have a slight problem then, as the main body itself can't be taken apart that much. Maybe reducing the length by meter or two by taking off the head and re-attaching it (we can't make it any smaller or the two pilots don't fit inside it.)

Though, you could also calculate that it takes around 13-18 drow's space in the ship in total, if everyone has to stand up (drows are around 1,8-2,2 meters, and you can put that many drow onto the 3,2 x 6 meter area without having to squeeze them up too much.)
If we can fit in 300 people with current room (not having any storage then though), using less than 20 people's worth for golem isn't that much in the end. :w

I just like spinning numbers around until the math seems to be on our side with the storage. ST and Kern and others have the final say on this.
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Re: The wargolem melee design contest.

Postby choby40k on Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:03 pm

lets just keelhaul the thing were ever we go XD
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Re: The wargolem melee design contest.

Postby Ash'arion on Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:18 pm

The large ballista has been more or less consistently shown to be roughly 16.5 meters long x ~5 meters tall x ~12-13 meters wide at the bow, 5 excluding the arms. I put up the numbers for the space it would occupy assembled [urlhttp://forums.drowtales.com/viewtopic.php?p=761407#p761407]here[/url]. Translated to cubic meters, the volume I posted would be just short of 1600m^3. Even broken down into the smallest segments that could be reassembled over the course of a day (body, separated arms, separated ammo), it would still take up more space than a squad of your golems, being around 451,5m^3. That said, it probably doesn't leave very much room for them, or anything else in cargo either. If we have any more room for anything, it's because either the airship is much bigger than ST insists it is, or because the ballista is much smaller than it's ever been shown to be.
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Re: The wargolem melee design contest.

Postby Dalvyserran on Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:36 pm

I don't know why you guys are fishing for hard data when there is none to begin with... *wutno* If it's too big, well... it's too big.

Eltharrion wrote: Even if we can't do that well, I don't see this thing being THAT big with the internal working parts and whatnot). Can't say anything 100% yet, as we haven't seen that much of golem interiors about anywhere.


The Kalyantra golems are more or less glorified, clunky body suits. What you're trying to build is the same type as this this this and this, which are all multi-pilot siege golems
Height Chart for various races
Cameo appearances catalog

Beldrobbaen San'dellora Dizen'ralith House
Kyorl'solenurn Shinhwa
Sullisin'rune Min'issya - Ash'mita
Sharen Daksha'yani - Chigusa
Illhar'dro Mersedeh - Sasarai
Sarghress Awdri
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Re: The wargolem melee design contest.

Postby Eltharrion on Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:42 pm

Dalvyserran wrote:I don't know why you guys are fishing for hard data when there is none to begin with... *wutno* If it's too big, well... it's too big.

That's cause we love to argue and desperately make points of non-existing that allows us to go around any loopholes we have. XD

Dalvyserran wrote:
Eltharrion wrote: Even if we can't do that well, I don't see this thing being THAT big with the internal working parts and whatnot). Can't say anything 100% yet, as we haven't seen that much of golem interiors about anywhere.


The Kalyantra golems are more or less glorified, clunky body suits. What you're trying to build is the same type as this this this and this, which are all multi-pilot siege golems

Only thing I can say: This golem we're making will have A LOT LESS space in the cockpit. Because having the room for holding three or four extra drow is useless.

But yeah, that's more of thing we are aiming here. Thanks for the reference images. *smallsmile*
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Re: The wargolem melee design contest.

Postby Dalvyserran on Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:04 pm

I'd wager a guess and say they're spacious because you need space to get out in case of emergency. A pilot can get entombed from either it becoming disabled, running into a building, earth/metal arts interfering with it (unless the golem was built with cavern shell crystals that disrupt arts thrown at it), or worse--demons. Golems are basically death traps XD
Height Chart for various races
Cameo appearances catalog

Beldrobbaen San'dellora Dizen'ralith House
Kyorl'solenurn Shinhwa
Sullisin'rune Min'issya - Ash'mita
Sharen Daksha'yani - Chigusa
Illhar'dro Mersedeh - Sasarai
Sarghress Awdri
Nal'sarkoth Kane'ohe
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Re: The wargolem melee design contest.

Postby Finn MacCool on Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:49 pm

so are tanks and still everyone has them.

Eltharrion wrote:
Dalvyserran wrote:I don't know why you guys are fishing for hard data when there is none to begin with... *wutno* If it's too big, well... it's too big.

That's cause we love to argue and desperately make points of non-existing that allows us to go around any loopholes we have. XD

also, if we know by how much it is too big, we know how drastic the redesign has to be.
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Re: The wargolem melee design contest.

Postby suntiger745 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:41 am

Too bad the airship doesn't use TARDIS tech - bigger on the inside. ;)

@Ash'arion
The huge ballista is supposed to be close to 2,5 meters high, 8 meters long and 6 meters wide (which is still huge by ballista standards). Roughly. It's been consistently drawn larger than it actually is. :)

The main issue with the measurements Eltharrion gave is the height. Having the legs (and tail for a more managable length) be detachable would make it considerably easier to store.
Having it laying down would be second best option but would still require more space.
Don't want to get too bogged down in numbers though, since this arc is supposed to be more about adventure and exploration. ;)
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Re: The wargolem melee design contest.

Postby Eltharrion on Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:48 am

suntiger745 wrote:The main issue with the measurements Eltharrion gave is the height. Having the legs (and tail for a more managable length) be detachable would make it considerably easier to store.
Having it laying down would be second best option but would still require more space.
Don't want to get too bogged down in numbers though, since this arc is supposed to be more about adventure and exploration. ;)

Hum, must've been my mistake. From the numbers, I meant that golem's body is 2,2 meters tall, 3,2 meters wide and about 6 meters long. Not the other way around. (pilots are not meant to be able to stand straight inside the golem)
I understand if this is still too tall, but as this airship is Dark Elf origin (who were pretty tall, around 2,5-2,75), I thought we'd have at least that much height in the room... *wutno*

But let's just say that Vir and others can actually measure their storage space and build the golem to fit in there, no? That way we ourselves don't have to start doing fifth-dimension math here 8P
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Re: The wargolem melee design contest.

Postby Finn MacCool on Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:15 am

suntiger745 wrote:The huge ballista is supposed to be close to 2,5 meters high, 8 meters long and 6 meters wide (which is still huge by ballista standards).

that would be 120m^3 (or maybe rather half of that since the ballista isn't a solid block). so you might want to correct the maximum number of people we can ferry around.
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Re: The wargolem melee design contest.

Postby Leonis on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:31 pm

suntiger745 wrote:Too bad the airship doesn't use TARDIS tech - bigger on the inside. ;)


I actually talked to someone who OPERATED the REAL TARDIS controls! Granted it was back in the late 60's but still. Apparently they were just pop caps nailed on.
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Re: The wargolem melee design contest.

Postby suntiger745 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:07 pm

Eltharrion wrote:
suntiger745 wrote:The main issue with the measurements Eltharrion gave is the height. Having the legs (and tail for a more managable length) be detachable would make it considerably easier to store.
Having it laying down would be second best option but would still require more space.
Don't want to get too bogged down in numbers though, since this arc is supposed to be more about adventure and exploration. ;)

Hum, must've been my mistake. From the numbers, I meant that golem's body is 2,2 meters tall, 3,2 meters wide and about 6 meters long. Not the other way around. (pilots are not meant to be able to stand straight inside the golem)
I understand if this is still too tall, but as this airship is Dark Elf origin (who were pretty tall, around 2,5-2,75), I thought we'd have at least that much height in the room... *wutno*

But let's just say that Vir and others can actually measure their storage space and build the golem to fit in there, no? That way we ourselves don't have to start doing fifth-dimension math here 8P

Ah, I thought it was 3,2 meters high and 2,2 wide. The storage hold/s are not the greatest problem, it's getting the golem through the corrodors to it. (It's why the ballista had to be dismantled, and the two work golems.)
Good point about the roof height for the corridors though. They would be beuilt to dokkalfar scale so probably 3 meters or slightly higher. Not much margin for them, more for you.

Finn MacCool wrote:
suntiger745 wrote:The huge ballista is supposed to be close to 2,5 meters high, 8 meters long and 6 meters wide (which is still huge by ballista standards).

that would be 120m^3 (or maybe rather half of that since the ballista isn't a solid block). so you might want to correct the maximum number of people we can ferry around.

No, it's supposed to be able to carry around 300 people at maximum. If my math goes wrong it will be adjusted around 300 people, not reduce or increase the number of people the ship can carry.

The ship isn't a hollow core though. The people would eat/sleep in the crew quarters, cargo holds and cafeteria. Maybe some on shelters built on the deck.
However, things like the medbay, engine room, kitchen, the internal space taken up from the moon fragment floating core and toilets would not be places people eat and slept in, so they would be 'dead' space.
That is, the space exist in the total cubic meters of the ship but it's not useable as living quarters. Ergo, just going by how much space 300 people would take up would not get you the exact size of the ship.
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Re: The wargolem melee design contest.

Postby Finn MacCool on Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:44 pm

well, since you said 300 at the most (with no storage space left) i was thinking along the lines of a WW2 short distance refugee ship.
but okay, let's assume everyone can lie down. that'd mean we have about 2.5m x 0.5m x 300 = 375m^2 usable floor, 125m^2 of which are currently occupied (of course, the average height is probably a little less than 2.5m, but let's allow for some narrow aisles so people can get to their place and some unused space due to people not fitting exactly into the rooms).
assuming all rooms are 3m high, that would leave us with about 1,125m^3 of storage space, 375m^3 of which are currently unavailable - that already looks a lot better. :)
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Re: The wargolem melee design contest.

Postby Eltharrion on Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:25 pm

Okay, I know it's not really a place to nitpick, but there's something that really bugs me at the current point...

Here, in the panel three, we can see that golem's leg is square-formed. This is very clear there.

Now, here on other hand we can see that the original design is more... Fluent, round-shaped and natural.

I'd like to point that roundish shape allows:
-more protection, as there will always be wider area to take the impact compared to square's corners.
-no wasted space, as square's corners are almost impossible to use.
-better outlook. Fluent panther is way more intimidating that one made out of blocks.

Now, I understand perfectly that there are such things as artist's own vision/will to draw, time limits, materials and clan's own skill limits/ design factors.
But still, as the original poster of the design, I felt like pointing things out. Get them off my chest so I don't start sounding really angry AFTER we've built the whole thing.

If they are going to follow the original design (artist gonna draw final golem as more roundish) and this is just the mid-step of building, or if I'm rambling with no reason at all, I apologize in advance and thank for good and understanding work.
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