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Immigration plan

Postby Hetros on Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:09 am

I call this the "Fundamental International New Global Practicing Multiracial Premium Expanding Developement" Plan, or the FINGPIMPED Plan for short.

The idea is this. When the Nals come back, we ask them to seek out, specifically, the down caste and the down trodden like Driders, Naga, Sightless, abandoned Jaal morphs, and anything else that might be considered "vile and evil" and offer them a place on the surface. We offer them a better chance than any one else ever will. No slavery, equality with the rest of us, a place to work, a place to grow and live and be free, a better deal than they'll ever get in the underworld most of the time. Include with this Halmes, dvegar, and kotorcs. Former slaves, beings who might otherwise have to turn to becoming war meat for the Sargs in order to survive with any dignity.

Imagine, Driders providing their silk, Sightless their anti-magic and bouncer abilities, Naga their speed and strength, the sapient Jaal morphs their multiferous talents. We can use people like this on the surface, we need people like these, and unlike the Sargs, we don't demand that they become soliders. If a sightless wants to be a farmer? We're cool with that. If a dvegar wants to craft pots for us, also cool. Some kotorc wants to tend to the trideer? We can use people like that up on the surface.

If we ask the Nals to expand their net of hires for the surface we increase the people up here. Alloys are stronger my friends, and we can use ALL the help we can get. The regular drow of the underworld are frightened of the surface? Fine, we shall ask from those who are so downtrodden that even the dangers of the surface seem to be a better risk than the continual drudgery and loss of dignity that is to live in the underworld.

edit: PART TWO of said plan is inviting the Jaals to set up a ghetto of sorts within our colony. Privacy if they like, but they keep us updated regularly on their experiments. Why do we want them? Why, to Fae-Form the surface, to create a viable ecosystem that will continue to thrive and grow even as we eradicate the non-fae ecosystem that has cropped up in it's place!
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Re: Immigration plan

Postby Taruna on Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:45 pm

An interesting plan.
But I have a slight feeling that "tainted" will be an more or less unavoidable addition to this. Also, how do we feed them? Not all of them will be willing to work. And the former life as downtrodden will not disappear by sunlight. There will be a lot of tension. We may be willing to handle them on a even level, but among them this would be a quite different topic.

Also, the chance of being infiltrated and attacked from the "inside" is quite high there. They usually -are- "vile and evil", if not by nature, then by the society giving them a stamp on the forehead they can't shake of emotionally.
We would indeed need a system to differ those who want to start a life up here from those with ulterior motives.

This are only my first thoughts about this, and I would like to initiate a constructive debate about this. If someone have an idea how we can accomplish this please speak up.
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Re: Immigration plan

Postby Tsuris on Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:27 pm

Taruna wrote:An interesting plan.
But I have a slight feeling that "tainted" will be an more or less unavoidable addition to this. Also, how do we feed them? Not all of them will be willing to work. And the former life as downtrodden will not disappear by sunlight. There will be a lot of tension. We may be willing to handle them on a even level, but among them this would be a quite different topic.

Also, the chance of being infiltrated and attacked from the "inside" is quite high there. They usually -are- "vile and evil", if not by nature, then by the society giving them a stamp on the forehead they can't shake of emotionally.
We would indeed need a system to differ those who want to start a life up here from those with ulterior motives.

This are only my first thoughts about this, and I would like to initiate a constructive debate about this. If someone have an idea how we can accomplish this please speak up.

I'm in agreement with Taruna, asking the Nal to openly invite those that people call "Vile and evil" doesn't exactly sound like the best way to go about expanding our colony. Because, as mentioned, a good deal of them may actually be vile and evil

there is also the fact that anything on this magnitude would be an INCREDIBLY large undertaking. While I find all this to be an incredibly, noble and idealistic plan, that's really the problem. It's idealistic, and at the moment, we can barely take care of ourselves.

I'd love to see this implemented someday, but for now, let's focus on keeping ourselves alive/somewhat sane.
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Re: Immigration plan

Postby James Rye on Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:38 pm

I think, we should do it slowly. Maybe the Nals are better to know which common people are best fit for a living on the surface. I kinda doubt sightless even wants to leave their homes in the underworld.
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Re: Immigration plan

Postby Hetros on Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:05 pm

James Rye wrote:I think, we should do it slowly. Maybe the Nals are better to know which common people are best fit for a living on the surface. I kinda doubt sightless even wants to leave their homes in the underworld.


Most sightless live in caverns without anything but chitin for clothing and no ammenities what so ever >_>

I think that these guys, given the CHANCE at good honest work rather than forced into a life of crime and poverty and exileship will choose the honest work.

If they don't? We send them back where they came from. "Don't work, don't eat" could very well be our motto =P

As for tainted. We can still keep them out. The other cities have managed it so far with relative success. We just see about establishing our own order of demon hunters =P
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Re: Immigration plan

Postby Xalgoz on Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:31 pm

Kill all tainted, everyone else is ok.
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Re: Immigration plan

Postby Wy'shira on Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:03 pm

Agreed. Under no circumstances should we allow tainted to come. Kill all tainted - no keeping them around for any reason. It's not worth it. That said, about the immigration... if we do this, could we do it slowly? I'm not against it, but I have reservations about doing it too quickly. Maybe invite people who are extremely low risk, and then slowly, if it works out, start inviting the more "evil" and questionable people here. We want to avoid any possible issues that could come from bringing them up here.

It's a great concept, but there will be many issues we'll have to deal with. It's idealistic to think that the downtrodden will be happy here and immediately become good citizens if we give them equality - but that's not how it usually works. I agree with Taruna that it would open problems of being attacked from the "inside". These people will have no loyalty to us initially. While we may offer them a better life up here, their old lives won't go away... It's logical to assume that they might betray us in times of war if they see a good reason for doing so, and we will most likely create class tensions. That is why I recommend doing this extremely slowly at first so that we can observe the effects over the long-term before fully committing ourselves.

In summary, I think this is a great idea, but only if we go about it in a slow, extremely cautious way. Otherwise, at this point, it's not worth the potential risks.
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Re: Immigration plan

Postby Loniar on Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:49 pm

I'm pretty wary of inviting the Jaals up here. The last thing we want to do is attract their attention with what's going on in the main archive. Even if we could avoid any potential disasters (like displeasing them and getting the flower treatment - or being used as a 'tester site' for flower deployment), it looks like they could be gaining quite a few enemies in the near future. The more we stay out of the brewing disaster of Chel politics, the safer we will be.

Otherwise, I agree with what everyone else said. It would be great to take advantage of the proposed exodus of Chel to get us more manpower and resources come the timeskip, but we would need to do it carefully. We have a good thing going on. It's okay to absorb immigrants into our colony. But we really don't need them forming factions or separate communities inside our borders. That could cause infighting (if people come from opposing clans), heightened class tensions, or possible conspiracies against us. Like Wy said - invite people who are decidedly 'low risk' first, then escalate if things go well. I would totally be on board with getting some driders in this place though.
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Re: Immigration plan

Postby James Rye on Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:58 am

Well, looks like we gonna have quite some competion of where the people of chel will immigrate to. Free colony of Ys...
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Re: Immigration plan

Postby BlackFulcrum on Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:33 pm

I wonder where Ys is located, not too close, tho not to far either, good trade opportunities with the Illhar'dro to be had for sure.

As for the taking in the downtrodden, eehh...that's a hard one, I mean the driders from that independent drider town, I have no problem with inviting those up, they seem like a great bunch, judging from the one person belonging to that place we've seen in Moonless Age.
Tho I don't know if they're willing to come, I mean they got their own place there, and their bodies are more adapted to living in such a place then on the surface, this group would be a really "up to them" question.
Same goes really for true naga, but once again, we've only seen one character belonging to that group.

As for the escaped/free slaves, I'd probably think most orcs, humans, and light elves would prefer to go back to own lands once they get to the surface, Dvergar slaves we'd probably be better of dropping them off with our new allies.
Drow slaves maybe, but remember we still have our own slaves, what will they say about our slaves, what will our slaves say about us accepting former slaves as clan members in large numbers.

Sightless, I dunno, I do believe a few might be good, but most we saw, and the ones heard about in the audiobook Feast of the Blind were pretty feral, and very viscous.
Even if they seem friendly at first but I think they''ll take any opportunity to get ahead, including killing the open arms that welcomed them.

The abandoned Jaal morphs, what I always wonder, why were they abandoned? Were they damaged, our faulty, aggressive, unpredictable, etc.
Not just something you invite without a very very very good background check, and even then, who says the Jaal won't hunt it down to "correct" their mistake?

Of your part 2, absolutely NO.
Very bad idea, the Jaal a major player in Chel, we weren't, we even lost the status of minor player, even if they are the smallest of the major clans, they are still much larger then we are, and we had no diplomatic relations with them.
Judging by the current goings on in Moonless Age (ya ya metaknowledge) some of their upper echelons are involved in some really dangerous and shady experiments, and probably are part of the Nidraa'chaal, tho they still might not be tainted yet.
Inviting such a large clan will also inevitably want them to play a major part in the goings on of Ama'varde and our future nation of Shifaye'sindil (I take it you like your manly bits)
Also their biotech is very much desired by the other major clans of Chel, having them move in with us, means those clans come knocking on our door as well, since I doubt demand for that stuff will go down once the great clans move to the surface as well.
Seriously, let the Jaal be where they are or go to Ys, but not with us.

Honestly, I think the initial main influx of people should be our allies, the Nal'Sarkoth, they are a stable factor and seem to be keeping out of the wars seen in Moonless Age, I dunno if they have their own colony set up or planned some where, or if their plan is just to move in with us, but I find them a safe and secure bet.
Sure the Nal are a huge clan, larger then the Jaal, and also a major player in Chel, but we've worked with them before, and they are our sponsor in this colony, they also don't have anything super desirable like the Jaal's bioteck, Nal are traders.

An other desirable candidate might be the Kal’yantra, tho like the Jaal they have some attention grabbing tech, in their case, their Golem tech, that so far has given them a position of independence, so again some of the greater Chellian clans might come knocking on our door, do we want that, no not really.
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