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Re: PtP2: Children, a preliminary 'accouncement'

Postby Durlyn Val'Sarghress on Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:59 am

James Rye wrote:I´m okay with most of the rules expect:

The mother will input the details of the child into the system (name, hair color, etc).


Seriously? Why can´t i as the father put in the details if the mother is unavaible for example? Damm u, Drow society and your men must work in the kitchen mentality. D:



You said it brother! Boy power! ;) XD
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Re: PtP2: Children, a preliminary 'accouncement'

Postby kirio on Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:32 pm

Thalar wrote:Other, related information:
  • Male-male and Female-female couples, of characters in the same family, are also possible but cannot create a child.
  • Only 2 characters can be in a couple for system purposes.
  • It is possible to 'divorce' out of a couple.

So, what are the implications here?

First off, any tri-couples have a tough decision to make. Any constellations with only one male or one female, also have a decision ahead of them. Well, any constellation of 3+ have a decision or decisions to make.
There will also be no more than one child for the lucky couple at this point, though worldsetting-wise this would be explained by the very low fertility rate among drow.
The system will, from what I can tell, not allow adoptions, so the child will only ever 'belong' to its parents.


That is saying that Ves'xile who is mated with Ar'lien in the comic and Ar'lien and Hetros in the RPs would have to divorce Ar'lien and declare Hetros her mate in the system to even have a chance to have a child. The system (and thus the comic) will not allow Ves to be a couple with both Ar'lien and Hetros. So yes that is unrelievedly nasty and forcing the break up of a long established family group within the context of the comic. Linking the comic couple to a pregnancy/ child program is THE issue and it sucks.
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Re: PtP2: Children, a preliminary 'accouncement'

Postby Catriana on Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:33 pm

Oh, okay, I think I understand what you're saying.

The way I read it, the divorcing part I think was made available for same sex couples or if you fall out of the relationship, or one of the characters disappear, etc. I don't think Ves'xille could reproduce with Hetros, the two divorce and then Hetros reproduce with Ar'lien. It'd break the one child per character rule (I think, since it would make him a father of two children). It'd be an interesting way to circumvent the situation, but I agree, it wouldn't be fair. When Thalar said 3+ have a difficult decision, I think it was because it means one character will be unable to have a child in that pairing unless they mated with someone else in their family.

But at the same time, I could see how trying to do a multi-couple system would be difficult, especially when some folks have like, 5 people to their pairing.

I think the confusion was probably just a wording issue. Instead of calling the two parents a 'couple', call them "Parents" and then give us a fill in box where we can put "Mates". That way, there's a distinct difference between "Oh hey, these are the biological parents." and "Hey, these are the people I'm mated to in the family."

Did I make any sense at all? It's like, 2:30 am here, so I apologize if all of this sounds like jumbled crud.
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Re: PtP2: Children, a preliminary 'accouncement'

Postby 3Power on Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:57 pm

At the moment? None are officially registered. Two were shown in comic, but their identities were not revealed. I could give you my assumptions as to who they are, but I'd rather wait for some solid confirmation so as to not accidentally spread around the wrong word.
Its baby anji and thalar's child. Thalar confirmed on skype. (The clothes make it pretty obvious)
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Re: PtP2: Children, a preliminary 'accouncement'

Postby Valyn on Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:53 pm

^^; it's not a perfect system, no, but... if it's the best that can be done right now, why not do it? I mean... I know it'll leave a lot of people out and I find that kind of sad but... at least the part about only male/female couplings being able to produce a baby makes a lot of sense to me. and it also makes sense (even if it is annoying to players) to put a limit on how many children there are. Also, the idea of paying for a child slot would be a little unfair. That'd mean that people like me who barely have the money to subscribe to PtP each month wouldn't have the ability to have any at all. Unless, of course, Aery means buy additional child slots... but then there's the issue of people spending lots of money, making lots of children, and overwhelming the system and Rezza.

It isn't perfect but... we should probably try to at least come up with plausible solutions to fix the problem instead of demanding things that we don't even know if they could do. Wouldn't it make more sense that way?

I'm just glad we're at this point now... I mean, I've been looking forward to the whole child mechanism for a while, too. It makes me sad we can't all do exactly what we want, and most mates with three or more people won't have as easy a choice as I did with the two people who have characters that Valyn is mated with, but we have the ability to do what we've all been waiting for for a while now. So...we should probably try to make it work.
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Re: PtP2: Children, a preliminary 'accouncement'

Postby James Rye on Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:55 pm

Is it possible to divorce on your own or does that need both agreements? Cause in case if your mate is inactive and such, ya know. <.<
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Re: PtP2: Children, a preliminary 'accouncement'

Postby Hfar on Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:18 pm

Valyn wrote:^^; it's not a perfect system, no, but... if it's the best that can be done right now, why not do it?

Simple: because it's not the best that can be done right now.

Up until now, people have been keeping track of personal role play info and inner family character details just fine on their own. And now we are expected to limit ourselves in that regard in order to accommodate an automated system for reasons that have not been made entirely clear by Thalar, Kern, Reza, or the programmers. And if you notice we are trying to come up with solutions and alternatives, since the alternative is to rant and be unpleasant. But the fact of the matter is that many of us feel confused and betrayed by this turn of events. And unless a solution or compromise is reached that feeling is unlikely to change.
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Re: PtP2: Children, a preliminary 'accouncement'

Postby Catriana on Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:21 am

Valyn wrote:^^; it's not a perfect system, no, but... if it's the best that can be done right now, why not do it? I mean... I know it'll leave a lot of people out and I find that kind of sad but... at least the part about only male/female couplings being able to produce a baby makes a lot of sense to me. and it also makes sense (even if it is annoying to players) to put a limit on how many children there are. Also, the idea of paying for a child slot would be a little unfair. That'd mean that people like me who barely have the money to subscribe to PtP each month wouldn't have the ability to have any at all. Unless, of course, Aery means buy additional child slots... but then there's the issue of people spending lots of money, making lots of children, and overwhelming the system and Rezza.

It isn't perfect but... we should probably try to at least come up with plausible solutions to fix the problem instead of demanding things that we don't even know if they could do. Wouldn't it make more sense that way?

I'm just glad we're at this point now... I mean, I've been looking forward to the whole child mechanism for a while, too. It makes me sad we can't all do exactly what we want, and most mates with three or more people won't have as easy a choice as I did with the two people who have characters that Valyn is mated with, but we have the ability to do what we've all been waiting for for a while now. So...we should probably try to make it work.



We have been coming up with plausible solutions. I've offered up some, as did Aerisa. You might not agree with those solutions, which is fine, but valid attempts have been made. At this time, I've seen no one else really step forward with other possible compromises.

In any case, there is nothing wrong with members professing their displeasure over a system, especially when we are paying for the service. While the final decision rests with the powers that be, we should still have somewhat of a say as customers and active players. And I agree with Hfar, it is not the best that can be done, more like a mixture between the simplest and culturally logical. Limiting child claims to only females, while it makes sense for the DT world, makes things difficult for those in a group with more males than females. The better idea, then, would be to release that limit, so anyone can claim a child, with family members maintaining the proper numbers.

The initial registration would be a little hectic, but as long as none of the families cheat it should be fine. I would propose a number limit either per family based on the amount of members, or a number limit based on the pairing. If there are three people in a relationship, only two children could be produced. It puts the management of children more in the family's control, which is how it should be.


Edit: I understand my proposal would also release the one child per character limit. To that end, I would suggest limiting mating to official couples only. If two single individuals in a family mate, that's it for them, even if they find a mate later(so as not to have abuses in the system). Females already listed as being mated to someone cannot have a child with someone outside of their relationship, they would need to divorce their mate, then. If a female has already reproduced with her mates, she could not then divorce, mate again, and reproduce with them.

So, in a nutshell:

    * One possible option: Give a set number of children allowed based on family size.
    * Another option: Give a set number of children allowed based on mating size
    * Single members, in a family, may reproduce with each other, but may NOT reproduce again. Ever.
    * A member cannot reproduce, divorce their mates, find another mate and reproduce again.
    * Release the registration limit to allow males to claim a child(specifically for 3+ couples). This will keep the 'one child per character' registration going for the system.
    * Have one slot for child registration (Who the mother and father are) and have another text slot for listing of mates.
    * Couples must be listed in the Official Couples List to allow for characters to have more than one child. This would be the only exception to the rule.
    * Families would need to maintain a roster of couples and children.

Let me know if I missed anything or if there are any conflicts. I feel like I'm missing something...


Teh sex. Just for Odd. ♥
Last edited by Catriana on Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PtP2: Children, a preliminary 'accouncement'

Postby Hellsion on Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:53 am

Catriana wrote:
Let me know if I missed anything or if there are any conflicts. I feel like I'm missing something...


you are missing teh sex.
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Re: PtP2: Children, a preliminary 'accouncement'

Postby Jonarus_Drakus on Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:54 pm

There are two main issues with the system as it has currently been described (as I see it)

1) The lack of separation between 'relationships' and 'couples for mating' - If we can have it adjusted/confirmed that the creation of a couple for the purposes of producing a child can/will be separate from 'general' relationships. IE: the 'parents' details of the child being made separate from the 'mates' of those adult characters, allowing for more/different names to appear on one that the other.

2) That characters of couples made for the purposes of producing children prior to the system being put in place, can still produce said child if one of the characters has since dis-continued playing PtP since the coupling was announced (I'll readily admit, this one is of great personal concern to me, as not only does it affect my character directly, but also other members of my family).

If we can resolve these two issues, then I think we'll be (mostly) happy with the system then (If anybody else has any other concerns that I haven't covered, go ahead and post them!)

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Re: PtP2: Children, a preliminary 'accouncement'

Postby Catriana on Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:05 pm

Hellsion wrote:
Catriana wrote:
Let me know if I missed anything or if there are any conflicts. I feel like I'm missing something...


you are missing teh sex.


No I'm not. Go back and look.

And no, I totally didn't go and edit my post just to write 'teh sex' in there. You're imagining things. ♥
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Re: PtP2: Children, a preliminary 'accouncement'

Postby Tsuris on Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:40 am

I'm suddenly afraid of what will happen when we have kids.... that become Teenagers.... *hides in his corner again*...
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Re: PtP2: Children, a preliminary 'accouncement'

Postby kirio on Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:28 pm

Catriana wrote:Oh, okay, I think I understand what you're saying.

The way I read it, the divorcing part I think was made available for same sex couples or if you fall out of the relationship, or one of the characters disappear, etc. I don't think Ves'xille could reproduce with Hetros, the two divorce and then Hetros reproduce with Ar'lien. It'd break the one child per character rule (I think, since it would make him a father of two children). It'd be an interesting way to circumvent the situation, but I agree, it wouldn't be fair. When Thalar said 3+ have a difficult decision, I think it was because it means one character will be unable to have a child in that pairing unless they mated with someone else in their family.

But at the same time, I could see how trying to do a multi-couple system would be difficult, especially when some folks have like, 5 people to their pairing.

I think the confusion was probably just a wording issue. Instead of calling the two parents a 'couple', call them "Parents" and then give us a fill in box where we can put "Mates". That way, there's a distinct difference between "Oh hey, these are the biological parents." and "Hey, these are the people I'm mated to in the family."

Did I make any sense at all? It's like, 2:30 am here, so I apologize if all of this sounds like jumbled crud.


I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Ves'xilé and Ar'lien became mates first and then they both jointly declared themselves mated with Hetros as well. The threesome has been mated since day 12 of PtP1. As I understand the rules Ves and Het would have to divorce Ar'lien to have a child together (neither of them would be willing to do that).

I would indeed prefer that the term be changed from 'mates' to 'biological parents' and the whole process clearly stated as having NOTHING to do with who is mated with whom in the comic. The requirements for only one child per two players are fair enough, but that should NOT have any bearing on who the child's caretakers are. The child is the child of the Family of the mother as per the world setting. All of the adults of the family would be 'parents'. I also feel that (as the number of children will be limited) either the GM should decide on the appearance of the kid based on the appearance of the biological parents or that the players of both parents have to agree on the child's appearance. Giving the player of the drowess full control is unfair if the player of the drow is limited to that single child.
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Re: PtP2: Children, a preliminary 'accouncement'

Postby James Rye on Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:37 pm

kirio wrote:
Catriana wrote:Oh, okay, I think I understand what you're saying.

The way I read it, the divorcing part I think was made available for same sex couples or if you fall out of the relationship, or one of the characters disappear, etc. I don't think Ves'xille could reproduce with Hetros, the two divorce and then Hetros reproduce with Ar'lien. It'd break the one child per character rule (I think, since it would make him a father of two children). It'd be an interesting way to circumvent the situation, but I agree, it wouldn't be fair. When Thalar said 3+ have a difficult decision, I think it was because it means one character will be unable to have a child in that pairing unless they mated with someone else in their family.

But at the same time, I could see how trying to do a multi-couple system would be difficult, especially when some folks have like, 5 people to their pairing.

I think the confusion was probably just a wording issue. Instead of calling the two parents a 'couple', call them "Parents" and then give us a fill in box where we can put "Mates". That way, there's a distinct difference between "Oh hey, these are the biological parents." and "Hey, these are the people I'm mated to in the family."

Did I make any sense at all? It's like, 2:30 am here, so I apologize if all of this sounds like jumbled crud.


I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Ves'xilé and Ar'lien became mates first and then they both jointly declared themselves mated with Hetros as well. The threesome has been mated since day 12 of PtP1. As I understand the rules Ves and Het would have to divorce Ar'lien to have a child together (neither of them would be willing to do that).

I would indeed prefer that the term be changed from 'mates' to 'biological parents' and the whole process clearly stated as having NOTHING to do with who is mated with whom in the comic. The requirements for only one child per two players are fair enough, but that should NOT have any bearing on who the child's caretakers are. The child is the child of the Family of the mother as per the world setting. All of the adults of the family would be 'parents'. I also feel that (as the number of children will be limited) either the GM should decide on the appearance of the kid based on the appearance of the biological parents or that the players of both parents have to agree on the child's appearance. Giving the player of the drowess full control is unfair if the player of the drow is limited to that single child.


It didn´t read to me that you´ve got to divorce in a more than 2 relationship to get a kiddo.
You three would still be together, it´s just that Hetros is only allowed to make with one of u two a child. You don´t have to divorce to get the kiddo. At least that´s what i got outta the text.

And my mate still isn´t on. For weeks. Gaaawwwwd! >.<
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Re: PtP2: Children, a preliminary 'accouncement'

Postby James Rye on Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:13 pm

Will it be possible for the male of the couple to enter the childs name, gender and look? Or can only female do so? If so, what if you´re together with an inactive female who cannot/doesn´t enter the important stuff to achieve a child?
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