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Re: Tei'kaliath Warrior Thread

Postby Whizzard on Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:33 am

As far as I know training has always entailed physical and combat abilities. If you look at our battles, our warriors are nigh always fighting one on one.

What I'd like to train warriors to do is to naturally form squads and apply basic tactics to formations such as flanking and surrounding without someone having to bark the orders.

As for when I first suggested it, it was months ago and almost happened but was interrupted by the golden tower exploration and subsequent discovery of dragons.
Last edited by Whizzard on Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tei'kaliath Warrior Thread

Postby Ash'arion on Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:35 am

Whizzard wrote:As far as I know training has always entailed physical and combat abilities. If you look at our battles, our warriors are nigh always fighting one on one.

What I'd like to train warriors to do is to naturally form squads and apply basic tactics to formations such as flanking and surrounding without someone having to bark the orders.


Ok then. Unless you feel any kind of urgency toward this goal, I'll help out when I either finish or hit a wall with my new project.
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Re: Tei'kaliath Warrior Thread

Postby Whizzard on Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:37 am

Well, it's not urgent, we have so far managed without em, but it's still something I want to advance the general combat capabilities with.
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Re: Tei'kaliath Warrior Thread

Postby Ash'arion on Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:52 am

Whizzard wrote:Well, it's not urgent, we have so far managed without em, but it's still something I want to advance the general combat capabilities with.


Fair enough. Well, you have my support of will, even if I can't spare the more traditional means to aid you for now.
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Re: Tei'kaliath Warrior Thread

Postby H'K'Maly on Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:00 pm

H'K'Maly wrote:
James Rye wrote:
H'K'Maly wrote:Ok. So crisis is averted, Illhardro envoy played plausible denial card and seems we didn't unloaded the ballista yet ...


Hey, I and somebody else tried what we could do, but that thing was just too big for only two people. XD


Only one person is listed. And I actually tried to unload it in the other archive, so we will see ... perhaps there would be more people unloading it there.


... and with a probability of 50%, I just've been drawn in comics for the first time. :)

(sorry for offtopic)

Ash'arion wrote:I'd like to know too. You guys kind of do that every other turn or so, so I don't see what's 'finally' being started. Do you guys want me to drop an engineering project and hang out with you all some more?


(Looking at current options) What project?
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Re: Tei'kaliath Warrior Thread

Postby Durlyn Val'Sarghress on Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:52 pm

Whizzard wrote:As far as I know training has always entailed physical and combat abilities. If you look at our battles, our warriors are nigh always fighting one on one.

What I'd like to train warriors to do is to naturally form squads and apply basic tactics to formations such as flanking and surrounding without someone having to bark the orders.

As for when I first suggested it, it was months ago and almost happened but was interrupted by the golden tower exploration and subsequent discovery of dragons.



Training will certainly give us something to do during the trip, so ya can add it to the EA this week or the next if ya like
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Re: Tei'kaliath Warrior Thread

Postby Whizzard on Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:37 pm

I'll add it next week if possible.

Now, I must conjure a sentence that fits in the action and is understandable in a single way and entails everything needed... or I'll conjure a tinyurl to a post that explains the "plan"...

Else GM thinks we want to form permanent squads again...
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Re: Tei'kaliath Warrior Thread

Postby Ash'arion on Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:03 pm

H'K'Maly wrote:
Ash'arion wrote:I'd like to know too. You guys kind of do that every other turn or so, so I don't see what's 'finally' being started. Do you guys want me to drop an engineering project and hang out with you all some more?


(Looking at current options) What project?


Developing a system and tools for quantifying mana. Hence my advice in the EA for developing a unit of measurement for it.
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Re: Tei'kaliath Warrior Thread

Postby H'K'Maly on Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:53 am

Ash'arion wrote:
H'K'Maly wrote:
Ash'arion wrote:I'd like to know too. You guys kind of do that every other turn or so, so I don't see what's 'finally' being started. Do you guys want me to drop an engineering project and hang out with you all some more?


(Looking at current options) What project?


Developing a system and tools for quantifying mana. Hence my advice in the EA for developing a unit of measurement for it.


Hmmmm ... yes, we need to find the smallest indivisible unit of mana. And then break it apart. :)

I would assume drows already HAVE some way to measure mana - and if they won't, it means there are some difficulties with it we wouldn't be able to overcame so easily.
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Re: Tei'kaliath Warrior Thread

Postby Ash'arion on Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:53 am

H'K'Maly wrote:I would assume drows already HAVE some way to measure mana - and if they won't, it means there are some difficulties with it we wouldn't be able to overcame so easily.


With current available means, they can determine its presence or absence, or its quantity but only in vague terms. When it comes to things like engineering with mana cores, the terms 'a little', 'a lot', and 'too much' are not suitable. Especially when dealing with things that require critical or near-critical levels of charge in a given core, considering that crossing the line leads to a grievously injuring or fatal explosion. Things with a risk like that are NOT suited to guesswork. Therefore, I want to start the process that will lead to our community, if not the drow one overall, being able to actually see where the line is.

It's been mentioned that Tim has already developed an instrument that can detect the presence or absence of mana. What I intend is to add the small detail of measuring exactly how much is present, like the degrees on a thermometer. Without them, the tool can still serve its general intended purpose: if it's mostly full, it's warm or even hot; and when it's mostly empty, it's cool or cold. However, that is clearly not enough information for tasks that actually require a specific application of heat, such as cooking or forging. Taking that into consideration, and the fact that fae do almost everything not powered by brute force with mana, then it only makes sense that in order to advance our technology which is powered by it, we need a reliable and detailed means of measuring it.

Further borrowing from the temperature thing, we might also find various thresholds in mana that were previously noted but never explained, let alone taken advantage of. The thermo equivalent of this would be the temperatures at which water freezes/melts, or vaporizes/condenses, for example.
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Re: Tei'kaliath Warrior Thread

Postby H'K'Maly on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:21 pm

Ash'arion wrote:
H'K'Maly wrote:I would assume drows already HAVE some way to measure mana - and if they won't, it means there are some difficulties with it we wouldn't be able to overcame so easily.


With current available means, they can determine its presence or absence, or its quantity but only in vague terms. When it comes to things like engineering with mana cores, the terms 'a little', 'a lot', and 'too much' are not suitable. Especially when dealing with things that require critical or near-critical levels of charge in a given core, considering that crossing the line leads to a grievously injuring or fatal explosion. Things with a risk like that are NOT suited to guesswork. Therefore, I want to start the process that will lead to our community, if not the drow one overall, being able to actually see where the line is.

It's been mentioned that Tim has already developed an instrument that can detect the presence or absence of mana. What I intend is to add the small detail of measuring exactly how much is present, like the degrees on a thermometer. Without them, the tool can still serve its general intended purpose: if it's mostly full, it's warm or even hot; and when it's mostly empty, it's cool or cold. However, that is clearly not enough information for tasks that actually require a specific application of heat, such as cooking or forging. Taking that into consideration, and the fact that fae do almost everything not powered by brute force with mana, then it only makes sense that in order to advance our technology which is powered by it, we need a reliable and detailed means of measuring it.

Further borrowing from the temperature thing, we might also find various thresholds in mana that were previously noted but never explained, let alone taken advantage of. The thermo equivalent of this would be the temperatures at which water freezes/melts, or vaporizes/condenses, for example.


I meant that perhaps it would be more useful to simply ask the envoy how Balvhakara calibrate their instruments. Because otherwise we end up with something like imperial units or Fahrenheits against SI.

Alternatively, study the ship. There may be something calibrated onboard :).
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Re: Tei'kaliath Warrior Thread

Postby Ash'arion on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:32 pm

H'K'Maly wrote:I meant that perhaps it would be more useful to simply ask the envoy how Balvhakara calibrate their instruments. Because otherwise we end up with something like imperial units or Fahrenheits against SI.


That was a possibility that occurred to me after my advice had been voted for.

H'K'Maly wrote:Alternatively, study the ship. There may be something calibrated onboard :).


I doubt it. Ancient technology is cool and all, but the few times it's cropped up in canon and out, it's all been 'brute force' mechanics. Like how the golem guarding the knowledge of the soul transfer that Diva took didn't even have joints. Its limbs and head were moved by raw mana power.

Although, I was planning to study the ship too, albeit for a different purpose: to find out how it works. Conversations with the other engineer players indicated that we as a clan don't even know how our airship works, and that's why we can only repair them instead of building new ones. That's another minor problem that would make a major difference in our society once solved. One of the things I would like to do in that direction is build working scale models to see if the principles of the airship's flight would be revealed that way. But the airship technology is something I wanted to leave in Min's hands, if she would just get her mind off the war projects and stick with it.
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Re: Tei'kaliath Warrior Thread

Postby H'K'Maly on Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:32 am

Ash'arion wrote:
H'K'Maly wrote:Alternatively, study the ship. There may be something calibrated onboard :).


I doubt it. Ancient technology is cool and all, but the few times it's cropped up in canon and out, it's all been 'brute force' mechanics. Like how the golem guarding the knowledge of the soul transfer that Diva took didn't even have joints. Its limbs and head were moved by raw mana power.


That golem was ancient even when Diva found it. I think the airship is newer.

Ash'arion wrote:Although, I was planning to study the ship too, albeit for a different purpose: to find out how it works. Conversations with the other engineer players indicated that we as a clan don't even know how our airship works, and that's why we can only repair them instead of building new ones. That's another minor problem that would make a major difference in our society once solved. One of the things I would like to do in that direction is build working scale models to see if the principles of the airship's flight would be revealed that way. But the airship technology is something I wanted to leave in Min's hands, if she would just get her mind off the war projects and stick with it.


If we don't know how they work, we can't even repair them - I mean, we won't be able to fix every problem which may happen. Still ... are we really big enough clan to get this kind of technology knowledge?

... on the other hand, maybe it helps that we don't spend resources on wars.
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Re: Tei'kaliath Warrior Thread

Postby Ash'arion on Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:00 am

That golem was ancient even when Diva found it. I think the airship is newer.


My point stands. I'm certain the airship has plenty of room for improvement, especially in terms of mana efficiency.

H'K'Maly wrote:If we don't know how they work, we can't even repair them - I mean, we won't be able to fix every problem which may happen.


That's... not necessarily the case. Aircraft, even the magical steampunk kind, fall into the field of complexity so great that it's possible to repair any number of systems that mean the difference between flight capability and lack thereof without knowing more than that specific small portion of how it works. Trust me on this one. You won't believe the number of morons I've worked with in that field that couldn't possibly understand how all the moving parts, components and systems work together to make a flying machine. Even I forget sometimes. But you don't have to know everything there is to know about the greater body of what you're working with and all of its systems in order to keep it functional. It's ideal to do so, certainly, and that's why I want to make a couple nudges in that direction.

But it's not necessary. For example, there are even highly skilled surgeons and systemic specialists that don't know all there is to know about the human body. They do know a great deal more than the average person, and a ton about their area of expertise, and that's important. But to expect every doctor to know all there is to know about anatomic biology, and likewise every engineer about a similarly complex mechanical device's operation, is patently ridiculous. That's just too much information for any one person. That's why there are specialists, teams, manuals, and the like for just about everything.

What matters is that we, as a clan, collectively know enough about any golems we're going to trademark to manufacture, repair, and improve them as proves necessary or desired.
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Re: Tei'kaliath Warrior Thread

Postby H'K'Maly on Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:48 pm

Ash'arion wrote:
That golem was ancient even when Diva found it. I think the airship is newer.


My point stands. I'm certain the airship has plenty of room for improvement, especially in terms of mana efficiency.

H'K'Maly wrote:If we don't know how they work, we can't even repair them - I mean, we won't be able to fix every problem which may happen.


That's... not necessarily the case. Aircraft, even the magical steampunk kind, fall into the field of complexity so great that it's possible to repair any number of systems that mean the difference between flight capability and lack thereof without knowing more than that specific small portion of how it works. Trust me on this one. You won't believe the number of morons I've worked with in that field that couldn't possibly understand how all the moving parts, components and systems work together to make a flying machine. Even I forget sometimes. But you don't have to know everything there is to know about the greater body of what you're working with and all of its systems in order to keep it functional. It's ideal to do so, certainly, and that's why I want to make a couple nudges in that direction.


I see you have problems with quantifiers. (Or, more probably, didn't readed mu post whole.)

Ash'arion wrote:But it's not necessary. For example, there are even highly skilled surgeons and systemic specialists that don't know all there is to know about the human body. They do know a great deal more than the average person, and a ton about their area of expertise, and that's important.


Note that many people die directly on operating theatre, with multiple highly skilled surgeons around. Not speaking about people who don't even get there because everyone knows the problem they have wouldn't be solvable by operation.

Of course, aircraft is much simpler that human body.
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