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The Alliance of Races

Postby Hetros on Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:42 pm

In the coming years, we are going to run into some serious shit. We're going to need help. We're going to need allies. We can't trust other drow, there is established power structures there. We are going to have to call in the other races to help us, to forge a powerful new empire, a place where it doesn't matter what species you are, just a dedication to the Alliance the safety and peace it will bring.

We are Drow, Fae, magic wielders, long lived, planners, plotters, technologically and medically advanced. We can offer them actual REAL knowledge on how to fight others like us, as well as empath generated medical attention far beyond their own.

Dwarves have their smith work and industry, their alchemy and chemistry. They are so far beyond us in those areas because they are nearly our equals in power with them without any magic. Imagine if they can actually ADVANCE those sciences without fear? Imagine if they didn't have to scamper and hide in crevices but could support the additional population? They will have a safe fall back point, a haven, and allies, to retake their lands when the time comes.

The Ferals learn fast and are eager to help, if we can offer them security of life, food, shelter, things like that, they will begin to mimic us, learn from us, learn to act civilized to a degree even. Their speed and skill will make them excellent scouts, saboteurs, and hunters.

Humans control the surface now, and they greatly out number us, for protection and medical attention, they will be our primary diplomats to the rest of humanity, and able to tell us far more about the world than we already know. This is important, they'll also give us numbers we would not be able to generate, and with our help, they might even be able to even the odds against groups like the Black Suns.

Kotorcs are an unknown factor, except that they are brutally strong and tribal. If we can get these guys in on the alliance, it will help us no end I'm sure.

We know of no Light Elves as of yet, but we should welcome them to into the alliance should we meet a group and they wish to join. Their solid basis in law will easily help stabilize things.

Other races, races we have yet to meet but with civilizations and cultures, should be welcomed to. Alloys are stronger, the more we mix, the stronger we will be for it.

I move that we should form an alliance of races. Our core groups will form a powerful council above all the rest. The Tei'kaliath, as architects of the alliance, would also lead it as first amongst equals. We open our gates to those who wish to live by our laws, we open our gates to all who will live with us to secure our selves a realm in the world free of fear of other factions.

We can do this, and it could make us stronger than any Drow, any Fae, faction, we can use the collective might of the 5 leading groups to smash any single lesser group that comes to join us after. Houses of the Vals from Chel, human nobles, marauding Kotorc tribes, pompous Light Elf patriarchs, and even the Black Suns themselves when they come for us, and they will come for us.

By forming an alliance, despite the risks of bearing our weaknesses to other races and species, will prove to be for the best. By ourselves, we'll be crushed just as easily as we were back in Chel, by forming an alliance with all who choose to join, we will make a powerful Alloy, an unbreakable metal of will and diplomacy.
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Re: The Alliance of Races

Postby Jonarus_Drakus on Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:32 pm

To me, this is a matter of 'how' not 'if'... We need to maintain a position of power to a certain degree, make it clear that we are seeking these alliances by CHOICE, not some necessity born of either real or perceived weakness. If we look in ANY way weak, we will gain enemies, not friends. Keep in mind of course, acknowledging the strengths of others is NOT showing weakness, it's showing wisdom.

JD
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Re: The Alliance of Races

Postby James Rye on Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:01 pm

Espcially Halmes aka the humans might pose a problem if we don´t have enough power to make sure we can withstand their rise to power. I´m all for alliances, but first comes trading and building ourselves up stronger.
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Re: The Alliance of Races

Postby vitus on Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:37 pm

Hetros, when I was reading the first paragraph I thought you are aggitating in some Val'Sarghress political votes (a local sheriff maybe ?) B) . Then I thought you might be starting some Star Trek spin-off of sort (you know, you put capital "A" in start of the word of an alliance). ;)

But if seriously, my character´s origin is sort of a trader and in some ways he is cosmopolitan, but I am not sure if your suggestion goes too much beyond the reality of the world we are living in.

Starting with the simple fact - we are drow - we are the bad guys (as ussually seen by the others) - we should not be trusted -> so an alliance is bit too far. So a non-agression agreement or a a trade agreement or a safe passage with most of the races you are speaking about would be a breakthru. However only in case the others would agree. But as I am concerned from the other side a lot of our own folks are not supportive to these kind of ideas - or better say not yet supportive.

(So from pure drow machiavellical point of view you have made a first grand mistake in your future plot revealing your real goal - you should start to intrigue and manipulate the others to this stage - that would be more drowish *bigsmile* ).

However there is a light on the end of the tunel:
Ferals are still loyal in some way to us - but if looking to the main DT comic, they should not be always trusted, so we need to look forward how to bound our relations on equal positions benefiting mutually from long term perspective (otherwise they might sell us in the next turn for something more shiny ;) )

Dvergars are honorable, but are our core enemy - despite the fact we have incidentally attacked them (or at least released an avalanche on them causing them pain and trouble) they too are willing to settle the bill and seems to start some mutually beneficial partnership - however from drow perespective that is really strange and I would be suspicious unless we know more about them and their backgrounds...

The other factions and/races are unclear - was it an ignorance or a fear dressed for ignorance that let us (the drow, remember, the bad guys ?) walk and act within the halmes and kotorc village ? Or is there something they fear more then us (and thus we should be also keep it on mind) ?

"More questions then answers we have" as Master Yoda would say...
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Re: The Alliance of Races

Postby Catriana on Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:21 pm

Drow aren't always the bad guys, or evil, exactly. There are some drow who have beneficial relationships with humans, but it cannot be something for nothing. I'm not sure if a simple thing like trading will be as feasible for the halmes. It also doesn't help that we don't know the language.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: You do NOT need implicit trust to have an alliance. If more drow clans come, there is nothing wrong with an alliance, save that we ensure it's on mutual terms. We have a head start newer clans moving to the surface don't, and we have somewhat of an alliance with the Nals.

I am very confused as to why you believe light elves would want to form a functioning alliance or join up with us. They should be just as equally mistrustful as halmes.

I don't believe we should just dismiss our brethen as allies, but I think first and foremost we should get ourselves functioning first. We have a pretty decent trade situation with the Nals, let's see if we can do something with the Dvergar we have neutral ties with.
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Re: The Alliance of Races

Postby Hetros on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:21 pm

I think that if we can build ties of trust with the Dvergar we can build them with the Halmes and MAYBE the light elves as well.

This is an issue of "how", exactly as Jona put it.

We are DIFFERENT from other drow, sure we're seen as "bad guys" by many of the races, but if we don't pull as many allies into this as possible, of all races, convince them we are NOT evil, convince them we can have good trade, can protect them, can be a lucrative immigration place for Drow, Halmes, Ferals, and Dvergar, we can become a force more powerful than ANYTHING currently on the surface PERIOD, and quite possibly stronger than anyone BELOW the surface as well.
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Re: The Alliance of Races

Postby Catriana on Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:46 am

I think trying to get the Dvergar to 'trust' us is an exercise in futility. Respect us enough to work with us, sure. But trust? I doubt that will ever happen, the current LA kind of proved that.

Are there even any light elven communities in our vicinity?

We have something good with the ferals, and I think we can have something functioning with the halmes and dvergar eventually. Bringing gifts to the halmes may help bridge the gap, perhaps we could take a feral as a translator to let them know we're interested in an alliance or trade. They value gold. If we have some, we could give it to them as a gesture of good will.
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Re: The Alliance of Races

Postby Tibanna Vilrath on Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:05 am

stop giving people things for free ... the only opinion they will get of us is that we are exploidable
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Re: The Alliance of Races

Postby Jonarus_Drakus on Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:12 am

This whole "Alliances" thing in general is a LONG TERM goal, we need to get our head out of the clouds and think about 'baby-steps' only. To many people are wanting to accelerate things, to 'get results right now' - But diplomacy doesn't work that way.

First and foremost, we need more information - determine what grounds/opportunities exist RIGHT NOW for interaction between the races, and act on THOSE things only. Anything else is speculation and as likely to harm relations as improve them. Again - ANY UN-PLANNED ACTION WITHOUT INFORMATION TO JUSTIFY IT IS DANGEROUS.

Don't mistake this for a desire to avoid risk... There is risk in everything, but the more we do to identify the risks (and minimize them), the better off we will be.

JD
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Re: The Alliance of Races

Postby Catriana on Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:05 am

Tibanna Vilrath wrote:stop giving people things for free ... the only opinion they will get of us is that we are exploidable


What I am suggesting is a diplomatic move to show the offering party means no ill will. This is typically used as an opening, or a hook, for whatever agenda the party has. In our case, we want to establish two things. One, that we mean no harm to them and two, that we would like to open up an alliance/trade. The gift can be something we can provide them, and it is not something large or significant. It's a lure, nothing more, nothing less.

If you want to simply it, think of it as the samples you take from a product stand. It's only a small bit, but being able to eat/smell/drink/whatever establishes that you can trust the product will be good, and that you can do business with that company by purchasing their product. Having a sample by no means makes the company exploitable, it makes them business-savvy. It's the same thing, different concept and motivations.
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Re: The Alliance of Races

Postby Jonarus_Drakus on Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:41 am

So rather than just giving them stuff, we put on a display - showing the range of things we can provide? THAT I can get behind, give *them* more reasons to open trade negotiations *us* rather than the other way around!

JD
> J'hon D'rak Tei'Kaliath. D'rak Patriarch, KIA on the 12th day of the 3rd Moon
> Eh'rin D'rak Tei'Kaliath. D'rak Dev'ess: viewtopic.php?f=74&t=14467&p=765500#p758482
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Re: The Alliance of Races

Postby vitus on Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:31 am

I always liked the hospitality in the older comic entries (eg. the first guests treatments in Chel area).

I think this sort of thing works always well - so treating guests in terms of specific hospitality makes its deal.

However giving away valuables (for example the gold to halmes) is a two bladed weapon, so this should really be after some time. Ussually the first contact gifts are nto valuables but things of interest that represents somehow the one whos is willing to introduce itself - the good gift should intriguing - not so valuable, representing the giver, yet showing the hidden potentials. Like food cooked in a special way with specific spices or an musical instrument that is both good-sounding and craft-masterpiece etc...

(Oh, BTW, JD - you do not neet to shout on us, we are just discussing this topic, not doing anything like sending out greeting telegramms to everyone ;))
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Re: The Alliance of Races

Postby Jonarus_Drakus on Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:03 pm

Text is so under-expressive... I only intended to draw attention. Not indicate 'shouting'... Unfortunately the medium means that it looks much the same regardless...

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> Eh'rin D'rak Tei'Kaliath. D'rak Dev'ess: viewtopic.php?f=74&t=14467&p=765500#p758482
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Re: The Alliance of Races

Postby Catriana on Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:22 am

He wasn't shouting, I got he was trying to emphasize his points. I personally like to use italics to emphasize my points. I could suggest folks maybe trying using italics or bolding their words if they want to get a point across to prevent confusion. Bolding is just as effective as all caps, IMO. Bolding and underlining work too.

Although I'd like to point out Vitus that the halmes are not our guests and we shouldn't be trying to treat them as such. We're going to them, therefore, we're the guests, and should present them with something useful and relevant to trade. It doesn't have to be gold, I only pointed it out because while it is not valuable to us, it is so to them, and that's important. Certain things the halmes don't see as valuable we do, so trading what we believe to be a useless item with what they believe to be an useless item but is highly valuable to the other side is profitable.

We're going to them on a business endeavor. Were we hosting the event then by all means, provide a good meal and entertainment. However, since that is not the case, we need to get to the heart of the matter and not waste these people's time. Salesmen do not go to a person's house without the product or a sample of the product, they'd get thrown out within seconds. That is not to say we can't give them what you're saying, there are salesmen who will be like "Here, have a free 2 liter soda!" as an introduction, but all the same, they also have their product ready to present.

This is a diplomatic mission, but I strongly feel it should be treated as a business transaction, because that's exactly what it is.
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Re: The Alliance of Races

Postby vitus on Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:00 am

Catriana wrote:Although I'd like to point out Vitus that the halmes are not our guests and we shouldn't be trying to treat them as such. We're going to them, therefore, we're the guests, and should present them with something useful and relevant to trade. It doesn't have to be gold, I only pointed it out because while it is not valuable to us, it is so to them, and that's important. Certain things the halmes don't see as valuable we do, so trading what we believe to be a useless item with what they believe to be an useless item but is highly valuable to the other side is profitable.


I am sorry I have not expressed myself clearly - when I was writing about the guest treatment II ment it generally. Of course the attention you pay to the guest ussually equals to the fact hom much you value him, so I do agree that if (for example) any halmes delegation would come to Ame they would get still a warm treatment, but much more modest in comparisson to the treatment of dvergars.

Regarding the value - to do so we would need to know much more about our potential partners, so I support any research / exploration (or even stalking) in this field, so we will know whaty they really do value and what they really can offer.
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