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Re: Nobility

Postby 3Power on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:16 am

Well, guess what, people disagree with you and have made their cases why without resorting to personal insults. Also, don't think I didn't notice that you took down the poll when the numbers started showing that people disagreed with you.
They haven't made any cases. They said they don't care and I shouldn't either.

Well, it's an unfortunate circumstance for you, but obviously there's enough support for it and this is what the majority voted for.

But you can keep the abusive language up if it'll make you feel better. I for one find it amusing, since I'll have my features regardless of how much vitriol you spit at me.
Wrong. This is not what the majority voted for. I know. I was in the majority. This whole thing about the picture and the Action posting being related came up just now.

And grow up already. I'm really getting sick of you whining about how mean everyone is all the time, in the news section and otherwise.
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Re: Nobility

Postby Catriana on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:24 am

3Power wrote:
And grow up already. I'm really getting sick of you whining about how mean everyone is all the time, in the news section and otherwise.


Wrong member. That was someone else. I merely acknowledged people have issues with others and certain members here use abusive language to others, but I didn't complain, nor have I ever quit. In fact, I defended PtP. Up until this point, anything you've said negatively to me I've outright ignored.
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Re: Nobility

Postby Hfar on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:25 am

3Power wrote:
Well, guess what, people disagree with you and have made their cases why without resorting to personal insults. Also, don't think I didn't notice that you took down the poll when the numbers started showing that people disagreed with you.
They haven't made any cases. They said they don't care and I shouldn't either.

I'm sorry you feel that way but we just see a different way. The way I figure, making the portrait a prerequisite is a way to see if you're committed to becoming a responsible member of the nobility. You want to be a member of the big boys/girls club? Then you have to pay the full price now. It also seems to be a way to prevent people from just paying fifteen dollars for a month just to drop out or abuse their privileges, a method that I'm willing to try out.
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Re: Nobility

Postby 3Power on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:31 am

Wrong member. That was someone else.

Someone else with your screen name?
And once again, that’s not to say people should be allowed to say just anything to others. You’re right, there are people in the game who are excessively rude, to the point of annoyance. But not everyone is going to conduct themselves the way you’d like them to, and I’ve seen you take particular offense to people who sometimes weren’t being as rude as you assumed them to be.

I agree that the forums needed better moderation. In fact, I believe one of the biggest issues with PtP was that we had too much freedom, and it got out of hand. For a game with so many people actively involved, I think some extra hands(forum moderators) and maybe an extra GM or something along those lines wouldn’t hurt. That way, there would be less overall abuses.


Whine whine whine.

I'm sorry you feel that way but we just see a different way. The way I figure, making the portrait a prerequisite is a way to see if you're committed to becoming a responsible member of the nobility. You want to be a member of the big boys/girls club? Then you have to pay the full price now. It also seems to be a way to prevent people from just paying fifteen dollars for a month just to drop out or abuse their privileges, a method that I'm willing to try out.

So if you didn't have to pay it, would you pay it?
Last edited by 3Power on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nobility

Postby Hfar on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:32 am

3Power wrote:
I'm sorry you feel that way but we just see a different way. The way I figure, making the portrait a prerequisite is a way to see if you're committed to becoming a responsible member of the nobility. You want to be a member of the big boys/girls club? Then you have to pay the full price now. It also seems to be a way to prevent people from just paying fifteen dollars for a month just to drop out or abuse their privileges, a method that I'm willing to try out.

So if you didn't have to pay it would you pay it?

If I thought it would keep the game alive and support my favorite artists? Yes.
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Re: Nobility

Postby AthenAltena on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:32 am

Hfar wrote:If I thought it would keep the game alive and support my favorite artists? Yes.


Same here. And I believe I am on record saying that I would be willing to donate funds before the proposal was made.

And I fail to see how this isn't making a case. We've outlined why we've said what we've said.
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Re: Nobility

Postby Jonarus_Drakus on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:37 am

Again, what about the members of small familes who don't have the numbers to fill the 'slots' in the $120 asking price? (Not an issue for me personally, noted. But there are plenty of deserving would-be Nobles who WILL be effected: IE: Lau'nar, our one remaining MS).

When 'Nobility' is determined solely by wealth and not loyalty, wisdom, etc... Then only disaster will follow. I can see it now, a bunch of over-inflated types who are only there because they are well off sending the clan down a path that the majority do not agree with and justifying it with "Hey, we PAID for this, so we can do as we please"

*shudders*

Don't let it happen people, please!

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Re: Nobility

Postby 3Power on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:38 am

And I fail to see how this isn't making a case. We've outlined why we've said what we've said.
You haven't made a case for why donating extra money for a portrait should be mandatory instead of voluntary. Like I said, most of your argument deals with personal indifference.
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Re: Nobility

Postby AthenAltena on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:41 am

Jonarus_Drakus wrote:Again, what about the members of small familes who don't have the numbers to fill the 'slots' in the $120 asking price? (Not an issue for me personally, noted. But there are plenty of deserving would-be Nobles who WILL be effected: IE: Lau'nar, our one remaining MS).

When 'Nobility' is determined solely by wealth and not loyalty, wisdom, etc... Then only disaster will follow. I can see it now, a bunch of over-inflated types who are only there because they are well off sending the clan down a path that the majority do not agree with and justifying it with "Hey, we PAID for this, so we can do as we please"

*shudders*

Don't let it happen people, please!

JD


I think that's a valid concern, but they're also proposing actions to prevent that, such as banishment and tighter forum moderation. The smaller families do have potential issues, but I imagine they can be worked out.

3Power wrote:You haven't made a case for why donating extra money for a portrait should be mandatory instead of voluntary. Like I said, most of your argument deals with personal indifference.


I think I did outline why it should be mandatory, mainly, it's a down payment to keep the site alive and offset the costs of free members. And it's not "indifference" it's saying that I don't mind having to do something, and I never claimed to speak for anyone but myself. That's tolerance and flexibility. Indifference would be not having an opinion at all.
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Re: Nobility

Postby Hfar on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:44 am

Jonarus_Drakus wrote:Again, what about the members of small familes who don't have the numbers to fill the 'slots' in the $120 asking price? (Not an issue for me personally, noted. But there are plenty of deserving would-be Nobles who WILL be effected: IE: Lau'nar, our one remaining MS).

When 'Nobility' is determined solely by wealth and not loyalty, wisdom, etc... Then only disaster will follow. I can see it now, a bunch of over-inflated types who are only there because they are well off sending the clan down a path that the majority do not agree with and justifying it with "Hey, we PAID for this, so we can do as we please"

*shudders*

Don't let it happen people, please!

JD

True, but then again it sounds like there's no limit as to when you can become a noble so it is possible for people to save up their money to pay the onetime fee. And really if you're committed enough to pay fifteen dollars a month anyway, you can save ten dollars a month plus your regular account until you're ready.
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Re: Nobility

Postby 3Power on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:49 am

I think I did outline why it should be mandatory, mainly, it's a down payment to keep the site alive and offset the costs of free members.
Keep the site alive... huh. See, the way I figure it.... lots of people paying $15 a month.... plus volunteer donations... gets you a lot of money.... While only a couple of people paying $15 a month plus their forced donations.... Doesn't get quite as much.

And it's not "indifference" it's saying that I don't mind having to do something, and I never claimed to speak for anyone but myself. That's tolerance and flexibility. Indifference would be not having an opinion at all.
No, that's apathy. You are displaying indifference. Whether it was a prerequisite or not wouldn't matter for you, thus you default to way it currently seems to be set up, regardless of how it would affect anyone else, such as new members.

You are indifferent to their plight.
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Re: Nobility

Postby blackjack217 on Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:00 am

3Power wrote:
I think I did outline why it should be mandatory, mainly, it's a down payment to keep the site alive and offset the costs of free members.
Keep the site alive... huh. See, the way I figure it.... lots of people paying $15 a month.... plus volunteer donations... gets you a lot of money.... While only a couple of people paying $15 a month plus their forced donations.... Doesn't get quite as much.

And it's not "indifference" it's saying that I don't mind having to do something, and I never claimed to speak for anyone but myself. That's tolerance and flexibility. Indifference would be not having an opinion at all.
No, that's apathy. You are displaying indifference. Whether it was a prerequisite or not wouldn't matter for you, thus you default to way it currently seems to be set up, regardless of how it would affect anyone else, such as new members.

You are indifferent to their plight.

Guys? can we at least wait until Kern says whether or not we can add new members to existing noble families before we get into a huge fight? Thanks.
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Re: Nobility

Postby Hfar on Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:03 am

3Power wrote:
I think I did outline why it should be mandatory, mainly, it's a down payment to keep the site alive and offset the costs of free members.
Keep the site alive... huh. See, the way I figure it.... lots of people paying $15 a month.... plus volunteer donations... gets you a lot of money.... While only a couple of people paying $15 a month plus their forced donations.... Doesn't get quite as much.

Ah, on the volunteer donation part, let me ask you a question: if you didn't have to pay for it would you pay it?

While it is true that some people might donate, there's quite frankly no guarantee that they would, especially considering the fuss some people are raising over the price tag now. This method, while somewhat heavy handed, will guarantee that people who are serious will make that commitment.

3Power wrote:
And it's not "indifference" it's saying that I don't mind having to do something, and I never claimed to speak for anyone but myself. That's tolerance and flexibility. Indifference would be not having an opinion at all.
No, that's apathy. You are displaying indifference. Whether it was a prerequisite or not wouldn't matter for you, thus you default to way it currently seems to be set up, regardless of how it would affect anyone else, such as new members.

You are indifferent to their plight.

Not so much indifferent as we see the validity of both points of view. The reason why we support the current option is because we believe that it will be beneficial to the site both in the short and long term.
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Re: Nobility

Postby AthenAltena on Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:08 am

Hfar wrote:Not so much indifferent as we see the validity of both points of view. The reason why we support the current option is because we believe that it will be beneficial to the site both in the short and long term.


*nod nod* And for the record I voted for Option 1, but said I could live with 2. And that's what I'm doing. Living with it. Because I accept that I sometimes (hell, often times) cannot get my way. And if it keeps the game going I'm willing to adjust to something I may not necessarily agree with, as is the case here. I don't have enough money to commit to it now, but I still support it because of the long term effects. And if that qualifies me as indifferent to you, fine. But no amount of name calling will change my position that what I will support is what's best for the site.
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Re: Nobility

Postby 3Power on Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:48 am

Guys? can we at least wait until Kern says whether or not we can add new members to existing noble families before we get into a huge fight? Thanks.
Think about what you just said. 3 people pay for a portrait. Then person number 4 comes along and joins the family. In that case, either he has to pay money for no portrait or he gets to avoid paying what the rest of his family paid to start up.

Ah, on the volunteer donation part, let me ask you a question: if you didn't have to pay for it would you pay it?
Me personally? Yep. Would I expect everyone to, including new players? nnnnnnope.

While it is true that some people might donate, there's quite frankly no guarantee that they would, especially considering the fuss some people are raising over the price tag now. This method, while somewhat heavy handed, will guarantee that people who are serious will make that commitment.

It also guarantees that not many commitments will be made. Which means less money for kern. This isn't a difficult concept, but you seem to be struggling with it.

Not so much indifferent as we see the validity of both points of view. The reason why we support the current option is because we believe that it will be beneficial to the site both in the short and long term.
You believe, I have shown. This will not be beneficial to the site short or long term.

*nod nod* And for the record I voted for Option 1, but said I could live with 2. And that's what I'm doing. Living with it. Because I accept that I sometimes (hell, often times) cannot get my way.
Sometimes you can though. But only if people work together. You aren't. You are running interference, you are not keeping your indifference to yourself, you are encouraging others to be indifferent. You're like someone who vocally tells people not to vote.
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