Where the clan gathers to discuss the issues raised in the Leader and Event archives.
The Conference Room is for serious discussion only.
Everyone is encouraged to participate, but this forum has special rules! Make sure to read it before posting!

Nobility

Postby 3Power on Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:17 am

Ok, so when we voted option 2 in, it seemed as though the picture and the game-play were separate. This is beginning to seem like It isn't the case.

What I'm currently seeing is that in order to become a family you must first obtain a portrait for $120 for 3 people + 1 kid, and an additional $30 for additional members. After that is finished, a family, with seemingly permanent members is made. At that point, anyone who already shelled out $40 for the portrait can begin paying $15 a month in order to add options to the EA.

I hope I don't need to explain why connecting these two options as a bad idea. But I'll do it anyway. Imagine you're a BRAND NEW player to the game. You find out that in order to become a noble you have to pay $55 dollars up front, and then $15 a month after that. And that's if, IF you find two other people to jump in with you at the same time. Who would pay that for a web based game up front? I am fine with having the family portraits as a donation-like feature, but they should not be a prerequisite for being a noble.

Now, I need support on this. We cannot let this lie and have it cause problems down the line. I need to people to say that they support petitioning Kern on this if necessary.
Last edited by 3Power on Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:38 am, edited 8 times in total.
Trey'la in Path to Power.
We gotta go, We've got nothing to lose, now time has come for us to get out.
We gotta go, If we're going down, well let's go down in flames!
User avatar
3Power
Summoner
 
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:20 am
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Nobility

Postby AthenAltena on Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:25 am

I personally don't have a problem with it, since it's something like a finder's fee on an apartment, and it's a one-time expense that goes directly to the site to develop the game. It essentially seems to be a trade off for allowing free accounts. I know other people may not be in a situation where they can make that sort of commitment (hell, as of this Tuesday I'm unemployed and looking for a new job) but when I have the means I'm willing to do it.
User avatar
AthenAltena
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 3394
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: New England
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Nobility

Postby 3Power on Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:41 am

How can there alreadly be four votes to make this a prerequisite. I mean, it was practically rhetorical. Can you people give me a reason for why we should pay $55 plus $15 a month to do what we've alreadly been able to do for free. $15 a month is one thing, but TWICE that UP FRONT as well!? Come on guys!
Trey'la in Path to Power.
We gotta go, We've got nothing to lose, now time has come for us to get out.
We gotta go, If we're going down, well let's go down in flames!
User avatar
3Power
Summoner
 
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:20 am
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Nobility

Postby Catriana on Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:45 am

The money is to help fund PtP, that was explained from the beginning. No one has to pay the fee, just like no one has to pay extra money to input options for Daydream. It's a one time fee, and it's mostly to get the clan back on its feet. I honestly don't see an issue.

Besides, we cannot be sure this will forever remain set in stone. It might only be this way until PtP starts paying for itself again, and then prices will go down. It's unfortunate for new members now, but for us veterans, we're already discussing ways to make it work, because we understand the situation and want to see this succeed.

Let it stay as it is, for now.
“The most I can do for my friend is simply be his friend." -Henry David Thoreau
User avatar
Catriana
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 2947
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:04 am
Location: Washington

Re: Nobility

Postby AthenAltena on Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:48 am

Catriana wrote:It's unfortunate for new members now, but for us veterans, we're already discussing ways to make it work, because we understand the situation and want to see this succeed.


That's pretty much as I see it, that this will mostly be veterans who have been with the game for years making an investment. The trade off is free accounts that allow new people to see what the game's about before making a financial commitment. And though it hasn't been explained regular paying players still retain rights like being able to vote for projects and actually have more autonomy than they did under the ranked, since they can join any action.

I see it as a fair trade off.
User avatar
AthenAltena
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 3394
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: New England
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Nobility

Postby 3Power on Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:49 am

The money is to help fund PtP, that was explained from the beginning. No one has to pay the fee, just like no one has to pay extra money to input options for Daydream. It's a one time fee, and it's mostly to get the clan back on its feet. I honestly don't see an issue.
Everyone who wants to be a noble has to pay the fee. The issue is that we are essentially being forced to donate against our will for what we already have. I am willing to accept another $10 a month, I am able to accept the ability to donate. I do not accept being forced to donate.

I see it as a fair trade off.
It is not in any way fair.
Trey'la in Path to Power.
We gotta go, We've got nothing to lose, now time has come for us to get out.
We gotta go, If we're going down, well let's go down in flames!
User avatar
3Power
Summoner
 
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:20 am
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Nobility

Postby blackjack217 on Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:50 am

Okay a fix? At the time a family is ennobled Anji (aka Kern) gives the family a maximum authorized strength equal to its current membership. We are talking a simple int variable here folks. When someone tries to add a family member the system checks against the maximum strength to see if it goes through. If a family pays say five dollars the maximum size of the family increases by one. (this would be payed by the prospective entrant) There problem solved.
Anareth Nimaraidh
Ceterum autem censeo, Siyah-khorshed esse delendam!
User avatar
blackjack217
Demon
 
Posts: 695
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:48 pm
Location: Right behind you
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Nobility

Postby Hfar on Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:57 am

3Power wrote:How can there alreadly be four votes to make this a prerequisite. I mean, it was practically rhetorical. Can you people give me a reason for why we should pay $55 plus $15 a month to do what we've alreadly been able to do for free? $15 a month is one thing, but TWICE that UP FRONT as well!? Come on guys!

Because I enjoy Path to Power and am more than willing to pay the extra buck for a game that has provided me years of entertainment.

If players, new or old, can't afford the price of nobility then they I guess that's just that. You need to weigh whether or not access to the EA is worth the extra cost. If it is, it is. If it's not, it's not. And to me the portrait is like paying for a commission, and I can understand why you're not keen on this idea but I'm also not adverse to paying for good art.
We shall settle this in the ancient way. WITH A CHILDREN'S CARD GAME!
User avatar
Hfar
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 3952
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:27 am
Location: I'm...actually, where AM I?
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Nobility

Postby Catriana on Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:57 am

You are not being forced to do anything. Your family is still your family. Families weren't registered under the old system and won't be now. The Nobility system is new and exclusive. If you do not wish to pay the one time fee, don't pay it. No one is going to force the decision on you. You can still vote on actions and input advices to the LA. Most people who will fork over the money are people who will participate in the forums and want to listen to folks' inputs and advices. If you are upset because you will no longer be able to personally input advices to the EA if you do not pay the fee, that is an unfortunate circumstance of this agreement. With the Ranked, none of the members had the ability to post things to the EA. This is a much freer system, all it requires is a small investment on our part. Considering the alternatives, which was sit in stalemate or be shut down, this is a much more lucrative solution.

And pretty much what Hfar said. ♥
“The most I can do for my friend is simply be his friend." -Henry David Thoreau
User avatar
Catriana
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 2947
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:04 am
Location: Washington

Re: Nobility

Postby AthenAltena on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:01 am

Catriana wrote:You are not being forced to do anything. Your family is still your family. Families weren't registered under the old system and won't be now. The Nobility system is new and exclusive. If you do not wish to pay the one time fee, don't pay it. No one is going to force the decision on you. You can still vote on actions and input advices to the LA. Most people who will fork over the money are people who will participate in the forums and want to listen to folks' inputs and advices. If you are upset because you will no longer be able to personally input advices to the EA if you do not pay the fee, that is an unfortunate circumstance of this agreement. With the Ranked, none of the members had the ability to post things to the EA. This is a much freer system, all it requires is a small investment on our part. Considering the alternatives, which was sit in stalemate or be shut down, this is a much more lucrative solution.

And pretty much what Hfar said. ♥


I think Cat, Hfar and I are pretty much on the same page. ♥
User avatar
AthenAltena
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 3394
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: New England
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Nobility

Postby 3Power on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:05 am

Because I enjoy Path to Power and am more than willing to pay the extra buck for a game that has provided me years of entertainment.

If players, new or old, can't afford the price of nobility then they I guess that's just that. You need to weigh whether or not access to the EA is worth the extra cost. If it is, it is. If it's not, it's not. And to me the portrait is like paying for a commission, and I can understand why you're not keen on this idea but I'm also not adverse to paying for good art.
I don't think you're actually listening. I am fine paying an extra 10 bucks for the same game-play. I am not fine with being FORCED to commission a piece of art as a prerequisite to that first.

You are not being forced to do anything. Your family is still your family. Families weren't registered under the old system and won't be now. The Nobility system is new and exclusive. If you do not wish to pay the one time fee, don't pay it. No one is going to force the decision on you. You can still vote on actions and input advices to the LA. Most people who will fork over the money are people who will participate in the forums and want to listen to folks' inputs and advices. If you are upset because you will no longer be able to personally input advices to the EA if you do not pay the fee, that is an unfortunate circumstance of this agreement. With the Ranked, none of the members had the ability to post things to the EA. This is a much freer system, all it requires is a small investment on our part. Considering the alternatives, which was sit in stalemate or be shut down, this is a much more lucrative solution.

And pretty much what Hfar said. ♥
Wrong. I am being forced to pay $40 for a portrait before I can pay $15 a month to add EA advices. You want to tell me "Just don't pay at all then?" Bite me.
Trey'la in Path to Power.
We gotta go, We've got nothing to lose, now time has come for us to get out.
We gotta go, If we're going down, well let's go down in flames!
User avatar
3Power
Summoner
 
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:20 am
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Nobility

Postby Hfar on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:08 am

3Power wrote:
Because I enjoy Path to Power and am more than willing to pay the extra buck for a game that has provided me years of entertainment.

If players, new or old, can't afford the price of nobility then they I guess that's just that. You need to weigh whether or not access to the EA is worth the extra cost. If it is, it is. If it's not, it's not. And to me the portrait is like paying for a commission, and I can understand why you're not keen on this idea but I'm also not adverse to paying for good art.
I don't think you're actually listening. I am fine paying an extra 10 bucks for the same game-play. I am not fine with being FORCED to commission a piece of art as a prerequisite to that first.

Then don't pay for it. Although I hope you don't mind if I forgo the biting. I just had dinner and couldn't possibly have another.
We shall settle this in the ancient way. WITH A CHILDREN'S CARD GAME!
User avatar
Hfar
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 3952
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:27 am
Location: I'm...actually, where AM I?
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Nobility

Postby AthenAltena on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:10 am

Well, guess what, people disagree with you and have made their cases why without resorting to personal insults. Also, don't think I didn't notice that you took down the poll when the numbers started showing that people disagreed with you.

I've pretty much said all I have to say on this.
User avatar
AthenAltena
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 3394
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: New England
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Nobility

Postby Catriana on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:13 am

Well, it's an unfortunate circumstance for you, but obviously there's enough support for it and this is what the majority voted for.

But you can keep the abusive language up if it'll make you feel better. I for one find it amusing, since I'll have my features regardless of how much vitriol you spit at me.
“The most I can do for my friend is simply be his friend." -Henry David Thoreau
User avatar
Catriana
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 2947
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:04 am
Location: Washington

Re: Nobility

Postby Jonarus_Drakus on Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:15 am

I agree that making the $120 family portrait (which is especially harsh on smaller families who don't have the numbers to fill even the limited number of slots available at that price) a PREREQUISITE to being able to pay the extra monthly fee is rather stupid (Trey is only wanting to skip the portrait cost, nothing more)...

That said, I am glad to see that that 'prerequisite' doesn't go both ways, and being a 'noble' doesn't automatically force you to pay the increased on-going amount too...

JD
> J'hon D'rak Tei'Kaliath. D'rak Patriarch, KIA on the 12th day of the 3rd Moon
> Eh'rin D'rak Tei'Kaliath. D'rak Dev'ess: viewtopic.php?f=74&t=14467&p=765500#p758482
http://jonarus-drakus.deviantart.com/
User avatar
Jonarus_Drakus
Vel'akar
 
Posts: 1434
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:59 am
Location: Watching you from behind the Blue eye...
Clan: Beldrobbaen

Next

Return to Conference Hall

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron