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Option 2: Downgrade to a simpler game.

Postby Sil'Thara on Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:05 pm

LA archive wrote:Or we can do as a few of my Tei'Kaliaths have advised. What does not work could be taken down. Simplify our work and politics. To replenish our coffers and help pay for restructuration, I could give greater spotlights to our important bloodlines. By paying to be raised to nobility, they would gain some renown. Yet, this comes at the danger of reviving old grudges. Because of this, I would have to become harsher with those who would disrupt our peace, perhaps even institute banishment.


Personally, I was reading during the EARLY days of PTP but I never designed a character. The whole forced RP aspect kind of...killed my interest but it was fun to see the clan grow, so I stuck around until I couldn't afford it for ages. So, I have no idea what "grudges and politics" are being talked about here. SO, this is a discussion I will follow but I doubt I will post in beyond the OP.
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Re: Option 2: Downgrade to a simpler game.

Postby Black Rabbit on Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:29 pm

Question I have on this:

Is there a limit to the number of noble families?
Is there a limit to the number of nobles present in the one family?
Is this is a return to PtP 1, PTP 1.5 or will the current interface be kept?
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Re: Option 2: Downgrade to a simpler game.

Postby Timotheus on Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:34 pm

For reference to the discussion.
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Re: Option 2: Downgrade to a simpler game.

Postby Hfar on Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:55 pm

Personally this is the option I'm leaning more towards, although I can see an issue already. From what I understand, people often leave the game because they simply can't afford it anymore and even those who stay are often scraping to get by. Thus if the price is raised even more, that may drive even more people away. However by the looks of things there are already a fair amount of people who support this option, so maybe my fears are baseless.

The other thing is that I'm wondering how much exactly are the one time and the recurring fees going to be? Will the latter be greater than, less than, or equal to the old Ranked fees?
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Re: Option 2: Downgrade to a simpler game.

Postby Dice Warwick on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:01 am

now I voted for option one, but if option two wins, it dose open up to making a new system that might work better. Now I'm going to be getting ahead of myself, but I think it is a good idea.

with PtP1 my main problem was that the ranked actions were a whatever for most people, as it was mostly controlled by a few people. Now if we go back to that, we could try something a bit different, something that involves the family as a hole, then just having them as extras for an RP. here it is:

--------------------------------

-First, take the idea of a separate shoutbox room that Relic hunters had, and apply it to families with a noble in charge. this way a family will be able to easily chat among themselves over the action the family sould take.

-Second, for the family room, have a voting system like it is in daydream, were normal users have one vote, ranked users have two votes and can make one Action, and the family leader has three votes, can make one Action, and can veto one action make by another ranked family member. - this sould help get everyone more active in the game, and help bonding a family.


----------------------------

this is what I have as an Idea, if it sounds stupid, just tell me, or tweak it to something better.
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Re: Option 2: Downgrade to a simpler game.

Postby ThatOldSaint on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:06 am

My major concern aside from all others regarding option 2 is the price...

I wasn't here when the game started and when the old rank system was in play, but from what I hear there was a lot of drama and egos clashing back in the day.
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Re: Option 2: Downgrade to a simpler game.

Postby Hfar on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:23 am

Dice Warwick wrote:-First, take the idea of a separate shoutbox room that Relic hunters had, and apply it to families with a noble in charge. this way a family will be able to easily chat among themselves over the action the family sould take.

-Second, for the family room, have a voting system like it is in daydream, were normal users have one vote, ranked users have two votes and can make one Action, and the family leader has three votes, can make one Action, and can veto one action make by another ranked family member. - this sould help get everyone more active in the game, and help bonding a family.

Well my question is, in particular in regard to the first idea, is how much more would we need to add in terms of programming? I'll freely admit that I know jack about such things, but it sounds like the DT team are trying to remove features rather than add them.

ThatOldSaint wrote:My major concern aside from all others regarding option 2 is the price...

I wasn't here when the game started and when the old rank system was in play, but from what I hear there was a lot of drama and egos clashing back in the day.

True, but then that's always been a problem. There have been ways to mitigate it, but it never goes away completely.
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Re: Option 2: Downgrade to a simpler game.

Postby Dice Warwick on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:43 am

Hfar wrote:
Dice Warwick wrote:-First, take the idea of a separate shoutbox room that Relic hunters had, and apply it to families with a noble in charge. this way a family will be able to easily chat among themselves over the action the family sould take.

-Second, for the family room, have a voting system like it is in daydream, were normal users have one vote, ranked users have two votes and can make one Action, and the family leader has three votes, can make one Action, and can veto one action make by another ranked family member. - this sould help get everyone more active in the game, and help bonding a family.

Well my question is, in particular in regard to the first idea, is how much more would we need to add in terms of programming? I'll freely admit that I know jack about such things, but it sounds like the DT team are trying to remove features rather than add them.


well it sould be more simple, they do already have the systems for it in place, the just need to import "daydream" and "Relic Hunter" system, and combine them. It sould be far easier then the grid map we have right now. I'm just suggesting a more interactive voting system among smaller groups. but as programing gose, I'm in the same boat, I I knew how to do it, I would be jumping in to make it for DT.
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Re: Option 2: Downgrade to a simpler game.

Postby FSEffect on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:45 am

I have suggested this before but we should implement something similar to the Relic Hunter system, each squad of players will be the same profession and perform the voted action between them, this means better coordination, faster development and less need for family drama. I do NOT support charging more for privelage, I'd much rather everyone as a level payment with all options available. I recommend getting rid of map movements current bulshitty state and award XP if you still want it to whatever action is taken. Also make it so map movement increased so it's in time with the update although I'd accept removing the assinine map system altogether.
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Re: Option 2: Downgrade to a simpler game.

Postby Dice Warwick on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:56 am

FSEffect wrote:I have suggested this before but we should implement something similar to the Relic Hunter system, each squad of players will be the same profession and perform the voted action between them, this means better coordination, faster development and less need for family drama. I do NOT support charging more for privelage, I'd much rather everyone as a level payment with all options available. I recommend getting rid of map movements current bulshitty state and award XP if you still want it to whatever action is taken. Also make it so map movement increased so it's in time with the update although I'd accept removing the assinine map system altogether.

As a Relic Hunter squad leader, I do not think this would work very well. we would have too many groups doing to many things, RH only works as it dose because it's all about small actions in a small amount of time, doing things bit by bit. PtP is about large groups of people doing Large actions together, this is why it is such a pain in the neck for the DT crew.
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Re: Option 2: Downgrade to a simpler game.

Postby FSEffect on Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:21 am

Dice Warwick wrote:
FSEffect wrote:I have suggested this before but we should implement something similar to the Relic Hunter system, each squad of players will be the same profession and perform the voted action between them, this means better coordination, faster development and less need for family drama. I do NOT support charging more for privelage, I'd much rather everyone as a level payment with all options available. I recommend getting rid of map movements current bulshitty state and award XP if you still want it to whatever action is taken. Also make it so map movement increased so it's in time with the update although I'd accept removing the assinine map system altogether.

As a Relic Hunter squad leader, I do not think this would work very well. we would have too many groups doing to many things, RH only works as it dose because it's all about small actions in a small amount of time, doing things bit by bit. PtP is about large groups of people doing Large actions together, this is why it is such a pain in the neck for the DT crew.


The small action for small amount of time is not a problem since the designation of action size and time can be changed accordingly. And of course you would be able to support other squads obviously. If we also make the squads larger and number of squads smaller than it reduces the issue as well. It organizes the actions better and increases production time without the need to acquire 5 vote approval and without needing ranked subscription. All you have to do is adjust squad size according to the size of the population. Efficiency reduced if not all votes are in just like RH so it forces some form of compliance
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Re: Option 2: Downgrade to a simpler game.

Postby Dice Warwick on Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:36 am

The small action for small amount of time is not a problem since the designation of action size and time can be changed accordingly. And of course you would be able to support other squads obviously. If we also make the squads larger and number of squads smaller than it reduces the issue as well. It organizes the actions better and increases production time without the need to acquire 5 vote approval and without needing ranked subscription. All you have to do is adjust squad size according to the size of the population. Efficiency reduced if not all votes are in just like RH so it forces some form of compliance


True, true. I can see were your going, though the idea would need to be flushed out some more, but I can see this work later down the road. There is then the problem of who leads each group, or the voting system. If you can explain more, that would be nice.
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Re: Option 2: Downgrade to a simpler game.

Postby FSEffect on Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:58 am

Leaders are just agreed upon by the team. He/she then makes the team and people join via invitation. Voting is done similar to what we have for RH i.e. actions are interpreted by gm and success/speed etc based on number of votes.
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Re: Option 2: Downgrade to a simpler game.

Postby Tibanna Vilrath on Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:24 am

pls dont ......

the rh system sucks the same way ranked sucked here. because if the leader is gone nothing happends. If you disagree with the leader he will kick you (if he is an ass) or you dont get the action done.

Just keep it the way it is.... voting for everyone and maybe making advises for those who pay more, but dont give a again only a few all the might.
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Re: Option 2: Downgrade to a simpler game.

Postby Catriana on Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:43 am

I think people who are opposed to the old system aren't giving folks the benefit of the doubt.

There are a few bad eggs here, but there are a LOT of folks who play fairly, and who are good people who want to see the clan succeed. Yes, the old system was abused, but that really was because there wasn't a lot of moderation. Thalar has clearly stated if we downgrade there will be harsher restrictions, meaning the biggest factor concerning why things led up to the way they did will be removed.

The old system worked and we did well up until a certain point. If we are better moderated, so that these things don't happen again, I am perfectly fine with going back to a simpler system. But the fact of the matter is that PtP 2 simply isn't making enough money, so let's try and build the funds up a bit and go from there.

I will gladly pay more to see this game continue. I have no desire to lead, I don't have the time nor do I believe I have the skills necessary, but if it would help the game, I'll be more than happy to pay for a special account.

Edit: Also, when the votes come in, I'd REALLY like to switch over to the PTP2 forum. It'd be nice to start from scratch.
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