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A Matter of Trust

Postby Catriana on Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:37 am

Trust is not easily given. Will you come to us as I have come to you, alone?"

I think Anj'hali should take him up on the offer to meet with his people. I do not, however, believe any solid negotiations should be handled until after the bonds of trust have been established and discussion of trade/alliance agreements can be made. So my advice would be:

"Accompany the Dvergar to his people alone to open the possibility of meeting for future negotiations/alliance."

This seems to be a test of sorts, and one I think Anj'hali is capable of handling. The purpose should not be to go there to negotiate immediately, only to set up the idea for a later, more official meeting time. Both sides need time to cool off and prepare, but for now, we can at least show we're willing to meet them halfway.

Sound reasonable?
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Re: A Matter of Trust

Postby AthenAltena on Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:56 am

Sounds good to me, I'd support it as written.
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Re: A Matter of Trust

Postby Jonarus_Drakus on Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:17 am

I also agree with the point that this is a 'first step' to enable negotiations later... It's a pity that were limited in the size of the advice, as there might be some benefit to reminding An'jhali (and thus Thalar) of the 'summon gem'... You know, just in case...

Maybe something to that effect can be made as a supporting advice?

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Re: A Matter of Trust

Postby laserkid on Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:06 am

Hmm the thing we are forgetting is that Anji is a summoner and more powerful then her own clan at this point.
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Re: A Matter of Trust

Postby blackshade10 on Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:22 am

Note: Traditional Summoner. Powerful, but the summon isn't like "omg I kill 300 people" that's Demon Summoning which would kill us all without fail.

Though yeah, I think she should. What's the worse that could happen?
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Re: A Matter of Trust

Postby Pariel on Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:22 am

Well, I do support the idea of not starting negotiations until we see the whole stuff. This last week of "respect and trade" was a bit out of the way. The dwarf said so.

I'm keen on letting Anjhi go. On one side, it'd be a fair sign, like we sent the unarmored courier only. On the other hand the GM can screw us over...

Well, I need to ponder it a bit.
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Re: A Matter of Trust

Postby James Rye on Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:31 am

@Jonarus

She has the gem with her. 4th panel you see her summon gem on her left arm.

I also agree that we can trust Anji with what Cat has written as advise. The dvergar leader risked quite a bit coming alone (I thought for sure he would come with warriors or keep me as warrant for a safe return in case of a trap), plus our Anji is someone who had spend 10 years in Ortho, fighting with sword, martial arts, summoning and mana blast/shield and even dsirupting (which she won´t need for dvergars) as well as finishing diplomatic and politcal class. She will be able to save herself if the dvergar plans an attack. But seriously i doubt that, i mean why going alone to a meeting with the drow Val and then expect her to do the same just to lead her into a trap? No dvergar in DT would do so, they wouldn´t even come to negotiations like the dvergar in that mine in Chel did when we tried to do so.

So we should let em go. And now i´m kinda glad that some people known for posting advise too fast or being to paranoid to accpect any kind of risk to our Illhar are not allowed to vote or advise for this time. Might give this matter enough time to have a calm discussion to either let her go or not.

I also think we should ask our only drow who might have an idea who those dvergar are or what we should think of his offer, the Nal soldier.

*What do you think of his offer? Is he´s one of your associates?*

Something like that, though we might not need it we could ask anyway, maybe we´ll get some more infos Anji might need to go there alone.

Shall we also do a time limit advise aka if we don´t hear of you in 24 hours aka a day we´ll come for you to see what happend?

@Brorn

We just offered it, not more. We didn´t tried to trade aka one unit food for two stone units, we just said that it was an unaware mistake of us when we killed their beasts (looks like you did hit something after all :D ) and that we would rather have a peaceful and respectful relationship with them then one of war and death. So thats fine.
And i dunno, even Kern wouldn´t do something like that. She might get captured but that´s the worst i assume for this case, she won´t die. She has no worth as a dead Illharess after all. Same for us if we would kill their dvergar leader. Also it still seems like he does know that he needs us if he wants to survive on the surface, but he needs to convice his people for working together with glow eyes, the glow eyes which set of an avalanche on their home. Coming alone for negotition to show trust in us is just fair to ask/assume the same from us in that matter.
Thank Thalar though that the advise box isn´t reset yet or else it would be filled with half a dozen advises already XD XD XD

EDIT: Btw, YAY i´m not dead or a hostage! WOOT! *wee*

EDIT2:

I noticed Cat´s advise is way to long, 110 letters. We´re only allowed 75. We need to shorten this advise to fit it.

Accompany the Dvergar to his people alone to open the possibility of meeting for future negotiations/alliance.

My idea: Follow Dvergar alone to open possibility of meeting for future negotiations - 75 letters, maybe someone of you got a better worded one.^^

As for a insurance to clam down some of our clan people who are understandable worried about Anji going alone, we can advise this:

*If we don´t hear of you in 24h, we´ll come to get you, Illhar.*

That would make three advises, one to go alone, one to ask Nal about some infos now that he has seen green-bearded dvergar and one to give a timelimit/insurance:

*What do you think of his offer? Is he´s one of your associates?*

Follow Dvergar alone to open possibility of meeting for future negotiations

*If we don´t hear of you in 24h, we´ll come to get you, Illhar.*
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Re: A Matter of Trust

Postby minalia on Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:45 pm

This is my advice.

Do tell our story. Appeal to common factors such as being exiles.

Tired i don't feel like explaining.
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Re: A Matter of Trust

Postby James Rye on Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:55 pm

I´ll gonna advise:

@Nal *What do you think of his offer? Is he´s one of your associates?*

Covers the Nal part since Thalar put that guy there for a reason and he did said he can aid in the negotiation/knows something about green-bearded dvergars. :3
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Re: A Matter of Trust

Postby Catriana on Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:21 pm

For the Nal guy I suppose we could ask him how long we should wait for Anj'hali to come back, what would be a reasonable amount of time that both parties would acknowledge. We really shouldn't be seen as too indecisive or skittish. I understand not wanting to place Anj'hali in danger, but there's a fine line between protection and coddling. If she can't go and handle a simple meeting on her own, what CAN we feel like she can handle?

Also, I thought it was already covered the Dvergar in the area were Nal associates. Am I mistaken? o_O Anj'hali was already warned about being careful toward negotiations, but that's not what she's leaving to do. Actual negotiation will (hopefully) be discussed at a later time in a location agreeable to both parties.

And yeah, sorry about the length, I don't post advices often, if at all, so feel free to shorten it.
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Re: A Matter of Trust

Postby Pariel on Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:25 pm

Catriana wrote:For the Nal guy I suppose we could ask him how long we should wait for Anj'hali to come back, what would be a reasonable amount of time that both parties would acknowledge. We really shouldn't be seen as too indecisive or skittish. I understand not wanting to place Anj'hali in danger, but there's a fine line between protection and coddling. If she can't go and handle a simple meeting on her own, what CAN we feel like she can handle?

Also, I thought it was already covered the Dvergar in the area were Nal associates. Am I mistaken? o_O Anj'hali was already warned about being careful toward negotiations, but that's not what she's leaving to do. Actual negotiation will (hopefully) be discussed at a later time in a location agreeable to both parties.

And yeah, sorry about the length, I don't post advices often, if at all, so feel free to shorten it.


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Re: A Matter of Trust

Postby Catriana on Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:42 pm

Hmmm, mmmkay. Nonetheless, I still think we should establish a proper length of time to wait and allow Anj'hali to accompany the Dvergar alone. Feel free to ask the Nals if they're associates, but I don't think it should hinder her from going, regardless.
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Re: A Matter of Trust

Postby Catriana on Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:30 am

I understand that an advice similar to mine has already been posted, but to be honest it wasn't at all worded the way I would have liked, and ignored key elements of this discussion. I apologize for that coming off as harsh, because I don't want to insult anyone, but I think we needed something a bit more effective.

So my advice I have posted is:

"Accept offer. Set time limit to wait for you. Discuss future negotiations"

It addresses the concern of how long we should wait for her, as well as sticks with my original idea of her going only to set up a scenario for alliance/trade possibilities. If you haven't voted already and my advice sounds good to you, please feel free to vote for it.

I'm going to say it, because I see it very often in many advices concerning Anj'hali: When you tell her to 'Be careful, watch yourself, tread lightly, be wary, take care of yourself,' etctera, unless it's strictly necessary, I find it to be redundant. She's had way more diplomatic training and interaction than we have, telling her the obvious seems to be a waste of characters. I'm sure she KNOWS she should be careful, and I'm sure she KNOWS we will be there for her when she returns. We're her clan, we certainly aren't going to abandon her. Anj'hali might be a NPC, but she's not a child and she's not incompetent. We don't need to waste space telling her things she probably already knows, especially when she has shown absolutely no reckless streaks in her from the very beginning of the game. Anj'hali has always been fairly cautious, we've not allowed her to be any other way, so why do we need to keep telling her these things?

I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to pick on them, because I'm not at all. Mostly, I simply believe that with only 75 characters for our advices, they could be put to much better use, so that we're not spending nearly as long as we should on issues because something important was overlooked or dismissed the prior week that now needs to be addressed this week. To be honest, I wish they'd extend the character limit, at least for the LA, to 100 characters so we can actually give proper advices and not cut ourselves off and leave the situation up for misinterpretation.
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Re: A Matter of Trust

Postby Hetros on Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:53 am

I'm voting for the be prepaired just in case option but to go with them. That way if she IS ambushed she'll be able to defend herself and be ready to do so. We'll be waiting as well.

Also, throwing this out there, that we should offer to replace their animals =P
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Re: A Matter of Trust

Postby Catriana on Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:05 pm

Hetros wrote:I'm voting for the be prepaired just in case option but to go with them.


Why do we need to tell her something she already knows? That's the point I was trying to make: Why are we telling her things she should already know how to do like she's incapable of logical thought and reasoning? Remember, she's actually dealt with diplomatic situations, she's been trained for this, I think she should know to 'be prepared' and 'be ready for anything'. That's like telling a grown person "Hey, make sure you look both ways before crossing the street!" Every single time they cross traffic. Really? No, really?

I'd accept the argument if Anj'hali showed any real signs of being incompetent, but she's shown more than once that she is quite competent, and that she can give suggestions as well as take them, and that she can make decisions on her own. Yes, she's guided by what we would like for her to do, but she's shown competence beyond merely being a simple puppet, and we should kind of treat her as such. It's a given that if she's going into unfamiliar territory that she should be cautious and as I've said before we have not allowed her to be anything but cautious at all times. Our actions have influenced her at least that much, so let's show her a little trust.
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