[Jonarus_Drakus]

A lot of people are getting very jaded and un-happy with the way things have been going here, as evidenced by the fact that we having been loosing members as quickly as we've been gaining them (we are still quite far off the clans 'best' numbers) And I know the feeling too, My family has lost a few members recently too, for no apparent reason (two case where there was never even a 'given reason') other than they got sick of waiting for PtP2 to start... The recent lack of... anything really, here on the forums has gotten to me too. This game is only as inclusive as we make it, and if we all just sit back and wait for things to happen, then nothing will... I've tried to do my part, keeping RPs going (Especially the 'community center' RP in the forum sub-section of the same name - I'm actually looking and creating a new thread for the same purpose but with the new settlement name... Who knows, maybe that'll help some... Would you lot be willing to help me kick it off if I do? - Just as soon as I get the 'ok' that is anyway...)

But this is just one part of the problem... I still relatively new to PtP (compared to some anyway - scary to think its been a good 18 months though...), but I can still see that the drive that existed when PtP1 first started has been lost... Things are going a little TOO well for us by 'coasting along', and as a result we have no 'direction' to take the clan in... No 'big goal' to aim for...

Thats why I'm starting this thread. To give us a place to 'spit ball' ideas for LONG TERM goals, goals that may seem obvious at a glance (to become a powerful overworld settlement - WELL DUH!), but without definition these vague goal won't amount to anything. So come on, don't be afraid of 'getting ahead of ourselves', of 'delusions of grandeur', aim for the moons themselves!

JD

[laserkid]

A massive construction protect to make a direct over-water path to the Underworld. The lock function simply enough the river's next to Amavarde usually just flows over the walls and breaks apart forming the clouds of the Mist Sea. By channeling some of the flow we can make a single lock system and to raise and lower ships to the underworld river system. This would make use the hub of mineral wealth coming up, and biological wealth going down. It would also make us a strategic target for anyone wanting to go up or down, but with so much wealth from the tons of cargo going up and down we could just buy the Sarg at that point. Fost likely it the tube itself you become a grand fortress extending all the way up into the Mist sea and a massive fortress to ptrotect it from surface armies.

Coupled with channeling out lake with the one to the south west to have ocean access would make us a world power.

[Nacht]

Hey Jonarus

I agree a mature discussion on long-term goals would be great. Especially to think about time scales. So far me are doing well on multiple day projects (multiple weeks in real time) and achieving construction of several buildings.

What could our longer-term goals be? I think for now we should come up with 3-4 long-terms goals that will take several months in gameplay (perhaps a year in real life). These goals could be divided into various steps or teams.

For example, the great engineering works pushed by timotheus, laserkid and others come to mind. Achieving the construction of a canal with waterlocks and a basic water-powered mill structure would be a huge boost to the clan. Getting all of this done, especially the canal, will take a lot of manpower and days of work. For me that huge project is already one long-term objective to aim for, that will be divided into many steps (starting with surveying area, planning construction, gathering materials and workforce - just as a start).

Other long-term goals could be:
- increase trade activity with Nals and other groups; we've shown we are productive as a colony, e.g. with woofcraft, but we are in dire need of things we cannot make or obtain ourselves, e.g. metal. Such a project would possibly cover things like increasing speed of travel, developping a long-term outpost closer to main trade route, diplomatic ties with neighbours, etc
- strenghthen our defense and military; we should study our ennemies better, be more prepared for attacks, and have a more developed plan instead of daily "guarding the illharess and Amavarde". We are already working on weapons innovation but large-scale production and cohesive defense strategy seems to be missing. The current action on improving the wall goes towards this but we remain vulnerable as a clan.
- farming and crafts: we are already doing well at this, keep going with current efforts

Oh, and one last thing: I think each "project" or "team" needs to be clearly defined and have precisely set goals and plans. One of the things I find most frustrating for newbies is lack of information on what is happening and what everyone is doing. Each team or projects hould have either a wiki page or a thread with a continually updated first post in order to make information easier to find.

[vitus]

Oh, and one last thing: I think each "project" or "team" needs to be clearly defined and have precisely set goals and plans. One of the things I find most frustrating for newbies is lack of information on what is happening and what everyone is doing. Each team or projects hould have either a wiki page or a thread with a continually updated first post in order to make information easier to find.

I agree - in my early discussions and checking with the players/characters around I have been thinking with whom and also HOW to team up - even I like the Dragoneye activities, my gusto is less action, more long term building and so if there would be a Timmy team I would join up.

I think regarding the longer goals we should start a little bit more wider seeking our True North:
-> we want to be the best clan on the surface ?
Yes !
-> so we need to have power (military) to be protect oruselves physically, we need to have influence (relationships, politics) to protect ourselves socially, we need to have resources (trade, crafting, engineering, resources gathering) to be able to support both goals and we need to be still the same society (so different from other drows)
-> we can not support more the 1 projects in each major area - power, influence, improvement in availability and variability of natural resources, trade resources, engineering and crafting (trying to support too much "thins" our vote resources and focus)
-> paralelly we need to think about some basic marginalities (a big project is openning a new mine - a marginality is simple to mine the resource)

I know it might sound bit like a political declaration, but it should give us some basic direction .

[laserkid]

A simple path of progression. Used to go above the tree line and rough terrain and perhaps avoid roads all together. The only real all terrain vehicle does use terrain at all.

Floater Cart: the handler is external to the cart and may just wheel it around with bricks or something.
Floater Transport (personal): The handler now rides and pilots the floater.
Floater Transport (2 person or 1 w/ Cargo): The hander rides with a passenger or cargo of similar weight
Floater Transport (1 Person w/Cargo): The handler rides with a larger cargo payload for logistical needs.
Floater Merchantmen (Crew w/ Cargo): The handler or crew of handlers rides with a multi ton cargo.

Weaponized:
Floater Mobile Heavy Bolter position: Heavy Bolter riding on a Floater Cart to give mobility to an otherwise immobile system.
Floater Transport (personal): The handler now rides and pilots the floater use in a cavalry like manner or with light arms.
Floater Fighter (1 person w/ on board weapons) A handler riders with Heavy Bolter attached.
Floater Assault Transport (1 Pilot w/ Infantry Squad or small wargolem): Used to drop or pick up squads
Floater Tank (Crew and w/ on board Weapons): When heavy weapons are required.

[Tsuris]

and when the time to vote finnally comes along we need some kind of check list to decide who's voting for it so we can effeciantly put it though or something.

[Nacht]

-> so we need to have power (military) to be protect oruselves physically, we need to have influence (relationships, politics) to protect ourselves socially, we need to have resources (trade, crafting, engineering, resources gathering) to be able to support both goals and we need to be still the same society (so different from other drows)
-> we can not support more the 1 projects in each major area - power, influence, improvement in availability and variability of natural resources, trade resources, engineering and crafting (trying to support too much "thins" our vote resources and focus)

I think military and resources are the most important right now. We need to focus on both and develop them as much as we can.
Relationships and politics do not require as much workforce, I think a small team of experts could be put together to work with Anjhali directly on this.

Another point we could discuss, what kind of role do we want for Ajhali in our clan. So far we have left her out of the many projects we are doing. Since she's an NPC, if we want a strong leader it's up to us to make her become that.

So I propose developping Anji's leadership should be another major goal, as she will be our main tool for negotiations and developing relationships with other groups.

[Jonarus_Drakus]

I agree fully with you Vitus. You've said pretty much exactly the sort of thing I was hoping to inspire with this thread...

So, a new overworld nation is it? But what *is* that to us as a clan? Vitus touched on some factors, but there our others. One thing I wanted to add along those lines is a 'replacement' of the Clan's "Influence" rating, in order to give us a nice 'global' stat to go by for determining how far alone the path to our goal we are...

Start by replacing "Minor Clan" with "Minor Colony and work from there...

'Minor Colony' --> 'Estblished Colony' (implying small but -mostly- self sufficient) --> 'Major Colony' (Moving us from before, implying a larger population -both clan a commoners- and larger area of control) --> 'Minor Nation' (Implying sole 'command/ownership' over most of the region, with at least one sub-settlement and/or 'vassal' -the local minor race population- ) --> 'Major Nation' (END GOAL - Implying full control over and extended area with multiple sub-settlements and/or vassals - Basically, an indication that we have reached the level of the overworld nations of the previous Moons-age).

Sure, the higher end ones may never happen, but the point to them is having something to aim for...

JD

[laserkid]

We are slightly better off then Hanen right now.

[vitus]

In the Shoutbox there is a good point about the newbies, that they might be confused by the way the game runs (I confirm it too - I am still sometimes confused) and using some simple structure we could make it a bit easier for them, something like:

Long term goals (a list of) -> actual long term projects (a list of) -> "leaders of the projects" (maybe with a link to a thread -> like Timmy´s sawmill superproject or Dycle war machinery projects), it means showing who are the architects of the project, eg. with whom the project can be discussed and to whom even a newbie can revert to if not sre what does it mean.

Then there could be some short time goals / actual problems to be solved quickly

And probably each section should contain an "idea list" (next projects to run) with indicative order

This setup with some entry word for newbies could be helpful also for all others as well...

(I am always wondering id someone is stockpilling somewhere all these wondrous ideas I have seen in different threads, Shoutbox and the unoficial skype discussion ?)

(Oh, maybe there is some sort of this self-management, but I have not stepped on it yet)

EDIT:

'Minor Colony' --> 'Estblished Colony' (implying small but -mostly- self sufficient) --> 'Major Colony' (Moving us from before, implying a larger population -both clan a commoners- and larger area of control) --> 'Minor Nation' (Implying sole 'command/ownership' over most of the region, with at least one sub-settlement and/or 'vassal' -the local minor race population- ) --> 'Major Nation' (END GOAL - Implying full control over and extended area with multiple sub-settlements and/or vassals - Basically, an indication that we have reached the level of the overworld nations of the previous Moons-age).

Actually each stage would need to be "linked" with some proper projects, that would support it (or prevent some risks) - I like this growth thinking

[Jonarus_Drakus]

Well, reverting back to my whole "Clan status" thing. It is only the long-term outline, with something like that in place, we can then move on to determining exactly what needs to be achieved in order to 'level up'. Once we have those requirements figured out, we can then determine the various items/stages need to meet each of those requirements and so on and so forth down through specific projects (and teams to work on them) to the individual players.

I also agree that EVERYONE (not just 'new' players) would benefit from having an obvious reference location to go to in order to figure out where they need to go (and who they should talk to) in order to participate in whatever field they want.

JD

[vitus]

I also agree that EVERYONE (not just 'new' players) would benefit from having an obvious reference location to go to in order to figure out where they need to go (and who they should talk to) in order to participate in whatever field they want.

I suppose it should be here in the forum - I am not good in the phpBB, but I know the threads can have "headline" main location, that can be edited and where can be put such things.

Technically a Goal / Plan / Status thread do the work (OK, we should name it differently) in a proper place (not "backsliping" in the list etc), that could be the main overview, connecting the links to each individual projects / problems thread

I know - now I am bit to details and technicalities, I will try to think about it more (if I would do it "naturally" I would start an Excel table ).

[Jonarus_Drakus]

All we have right now are these threads: viewtopic.php?f=62&t=13571 - viewtopic.php?f=62&t=14489 - viewtopic.php?f=62&t=15462 - viewtopic.php?f=76&t=15499
But all of them are out of date, some of them severely so... We will need to completely re-do them to suit the new systems/mechanics once they arrive... Of course, they'll be new to most everyone (aside from the beta-testers, whoever they were). But it's definitely a Priority. I myself Full intend to update/replace the old FaQ thread I was running with a new one (weather under my management or someone elses is for Thalar to decide). I would definitely make a point of combing the the content of the other threads as well, so that the 'new' FaQ thread includes a 'starting point' for all new players in an easy to find (and publicly accessible to read at least) place.

JD

[Tibanna Vilrath]

Whats with killing all black sun? or returning to the underworld? Since we were more or less exiled?

[laserkid]

viewtopic.php?f=76&t=15947 Comprehensive mission set plan to put mana plant fields/gardens in all sectors w/ TK involvement