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Re: the view from the sidelines

Postby Catriana on Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:21 am

thealbinobutterfly wrote:i don't think it quite matters, clearly Thalar is taking the defensive route on this argument. I'm pretty sure all she sees is us talking against her or trying to get above ourselves as players.

"i will not tolerate" words like that, etc- say that she is trying to draw a line of where we are and where she is, so i'm stung by it- but we're obviously meant to remember our little places in this online world.

looking good already, eh guys? *hmmm*


Okay, what? Seriously Xenon, maybe you're the one being defensive here. I know there are folks here who tend to attack you, but that's not the entire forum and certainly not Thalar.

1) She's the GM and she's clearly stating that yes, when it comes to helpers, she's going to run it the way she wants. She is entitled to this right. If she also wants to say "I don't want any interference nor will any be tolerated," that is also her right. Just as it was Kern's right to have ranked in the first place. If she doesn't want it, she doesn't have to have it. It's her call and being resentful of that is unnecessary. She wanted no room for argument, and really, that's what you pretty much have to do here in order to get the point across to folks.

2) She knows more about the upcoming game than we do. All we can make are assumptions, but from what she's saying, the new system will be so radically different that it will eliminate the need for the bickering and bitching we did. If that's the case, all well and good. I have no complaints. Personally, I'd much rather it be her call when it comes to helpers, as I've said before.

I'm sorry your idea didn't go off the way you intended when you started this thread, but that's how it works sometimes. You win some, you lose some, but acting well...bitter isn't the way to go about it.


Timotheus: Kirio has been keeping track of things for a while now. If he does not, I'm sure others will have no qualms stepping up to the plate. Being a bookkeeper doesn't need a ranked status, Kirio isn't even a moderator from what I know. Usually someone comes out of the woodwork to tackle issues like these, so I wouldn't worry overmuch.
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Re: the view from the sidelines

Postby Catriana on Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:24 am

Hellsion wrote:Snakes are kickass pets.


They are also delicious AND they make awesome boots.


....what are we talking about?



Snakes and trolls, apparently.
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Re: the view from the sidelines

Postby thealbinobutterfly on Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:11 pm

whoa, whoa whoa:

first off, aerisa, i am not harshing against thalar or trying to make personal attacks- i thought i made that pretty clear- so thanks for jumping down my throat on that one.

catriana, what i was saying is how this entire discussion about things we'd like to see about having a system in place to support her- has been thrown back at us with an attitude. the words "tolerate" and "not allow" aren't neutral at all- i am very accurate in saying that thalar has likely read this conversation and is seeing it as nothing but negativity towards her. As for it being her right to not want help, etc- obviously this is the case, i thought it went without saying, but thank you very much for pointing it out.

so really, with the above, my worries about us having any input or, you know, personally, me feeling like we actually had a say in anything, went out the window. it's basically we show up, we pay, and endure the rest.

as the last post i'd like to put here, i wanted to see a chain-of-command system or something similar/as good as put in place to support thalar, and therein make sure this game doesn't implode from drama. clearly, this logic is only appreciated in theory and won't ever get off the drawing board- so i see no further point discussing anything until the need arises.
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Re: the view from the sidelines

Postby Taruna on Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:05 pm

thealbinobutterfly wrote:as the last post i'd like to put here, i wanted to see a chain-of-command system or something similar/as good as put in place to support thalar, and therein make sure this game doesn't implode from drama. clearly, this logic is only appreciated in theory and won't ever get off the drawing board- so i see no further point discussing anything until the need arises.


Thinks like a "Chain of command" will not exist, Xenon. That's why the rankded are history and PtP2 will be "focusing on the individual player". Yes, the reason I see why that happen is the said "Dagger and Cloak" behaviour, the utter desire to get "Screen time" above all and the overwhelming lack of teamwork, born by the desire of "become a ranked".

So all that will be history, making a "chain of command" will only work on a mutual agreement between small groups of players and therefore we should look forward and wait how PtP2 will look like instead of declaring things "bad" or "too much for Thalar" before you even know what exactly awaits us.

I don't like to say it, but declaring Thalar not being fit to the task without knowing how PtP2 will work once it's done pretty much makes it an personal attack, no matter how you put it. I was about to address this issue myself, wondering what made you do a post like this since that is all but like yourself.
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Re: the view from the sidelines

Postby BlackFulcrum on Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:21 pm

All this is speculating about things that might or might not happen, things might or might not be good for us, ifs and what ifs....is, in my honest opinion, totally and utterly useless.

This is a game, a game in which rules are set by a GM, it is not a democracy, it's a dictatorship, get used to it, that's the way any RPG's works.

Don't assume and discuss things about which you don't have any knowledge whatsoever, it is a total waste of everyones time, and it only tends to piss people off. *upset*

Be patient, wait for PtP2 to arrive, and then make up your mind if you like or don't like the new game setup, and then, and only then, if you really don't like it, quit, don't play (and pay) for something you don't like.
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Re: the view from the sidelines

Postby Catriana on Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:51 pm

Just because we don't have a say concerning a moderation system doesn't mean we don't have a say in anything. That is exaggerating the issue and trying to make this bigger than what it is.

Yes, it does go without saying, so what exactly were you complaining about then? Because of the way she said it? The only person who seemed to take it offensively was you, otherwise, you'd have more backup. And no, you didn't make it very clear, your post sounded, and still does, bitter towards Thalar's response. She came down with a GM ban hammer, much nicer than Kern would have, mind you, and it seems you took it like a slap to the face. It wasn't personal.

The point is, Xenon, is that while your idea was good, it's not needed. Getting pissed off about it and going "Well, our input just isn't needed in this game at all!" is going over the top. Your idea didn't sell, it's not the end of PtP. Why don't you, I don't know, give the system a chance first before thinking it's going to fail?


@Black Fulcrum: I pretty much agree with everything you're saying. We don't know how big clan issues will be handled and if we'll even have a say in them, which is where most of the arguments happened. If the head honchos are going to be NPC's, it could very well mean we will have no say in how the big events work. The game's focus will be on our individual lives within the clan and ensuring the clan functions as a whole...that's fine with me. In fact, the game will probably be more enjoyable that way. More time for families to do things together.
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Re: the view from the sidelines

Postby kirio on Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:27 am

^^;
Hmmm, One of the things that disappointed me about the old system was that only the ranked could vote in the EA. When the game was first set up I was under the (mistaken) impression that the EA would be like the voting in DayDream where only the ranked could submit options but everyone could vote yea or nay (with the ranked getting multiple votes). The actual set up made it impossible for the unranked to participate in half of the game and gave the ranked power in game far out of proportion to the difference in subscription fees. The abuses that followed (including several eruptions of trolling by frustrated members) were unsurprising.

Currently we have a serious problem of having to try to vote on divers projects every week but only one vote each. Not only do we have a ballot crowded with superfluous and repetitive items, but we also have to choose between important issues forced to compete even though two or more issues require a decision.

I wish something could be done to allow voting on exploration, construction plans, and An'jhali's education to be held separately. The current situation is a bad joke.
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Re: the view from the sidelines

Postby Tamo Shua on Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:59 am

Hummm..
Wondering, with what I just saw in the events section. Three who wanted to look for the raccoons cast there vote, and off they went, just three in the woods looking for a tribe of raccoons. I have to say, if this is the way there going to do it in ptp2 then I’m looking forward to it. Well, not the 10+ year jump, the poof your town is built and ready to go kind for puts me off.
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Re: the view from the sidelines

Postby Black Rabbit on Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:03 am

Then I guess we just learn to make smarter posts and learn from the experience.
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Re: the view from the sidelines

Postby Bamawing on Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:25 am

I was feeling masochistic. So I read this thread.

It's probably 9 parts drama to 1 part idea. Maybe 10 parts drama to 1 part idea. And the idea is, forgive me, less an idea than a twist on what we had. It's a well-thought out twist, clarifies the system, but it's still just a twist.

Add to that the twist isn't very popular, because it's just a twist on an idea that most of us seem to think wasn't necessarily a good idea. And even if it was a popular twist, Kern has already stated that the original idea is Dead Deady McDeadstein. I'd be amazed if Kern was even ever going to read this, let alone use the ideas in it.

So basically we have a thread that is, let's say, 9.5 parts drama to 1 part moot idea. But I do like snakes. My sister has one; turns out it's female. (I thought she was a boy.)
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Re: the view from the sidelines

Postby Tohya on Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:39 pm

Since what we do know about PtP2 is that it will focus on individuals and their actions. That several people want to do similar tasks with slight variations, won't make any difference.

The only thing that doing multiple variations of the same task is going to do is make it take longer to finish any one of them. In theory a single player could decide that they want to do something, and eventually complete their project on their own. Just one vote should be enough to do something in PtP2, so this worrying about vote efficiency is unnecessary.
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Re: the view from the sidelines

Postby Aurawyn on Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:12 am

minalia wrote:Having people to monitor and instruct the newbies who might flood the game could be a good idea since a lot of them might rush off to a early grave if they ignore the warnings of elder veterans and ruin months of diplomatic relationships with some tribe we meet during the exploration by doing something really stupid.


I think this would be a good idea.. along with a summation of what happened in Ptp.. and perhaps summations of what is happening each turn.. I feel a bit lost being new to the game..
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Re: the view from the sidelines

Postby Aurawyn on Sun May 01, 2011 12:23 am

I like the three Sub-Admin idea that was originally posted..

I see it working like this..

Say that, I think the first thing thats needs to be built is the Clan's Keep, Louie thinks we should start building a storage facility, Mikey thinks we should build a hospital, Mary thinks we should start farming.. Finally Peaty thinks we should build a boat.

Well all post up those goals in a thread that is meant for the goals of a given week(turn) The GM-assistant who is most involved with the given idea can look at them, perhaps explain why that Idea might not be possible yet (For Example, no wood to build a ship yet) they they put each of those goals out there to be voted on. Goals that receive X number of votes for that turn go through. At the end of the voting, any clan members who have not voted, would be evenly divided between all the goals that received the minimum number of votes. (we would be assuming that they don't care what they do, as long as they are helping)

Or perhaps the GM's Don't tell you why a given Idea would not work, instead they put it out for a vote as it is, then the player(or players) who spear headed the idea could be shown in the comic as lacking the for-though to check the clans resources to see if we could even DO what they wanted to do. (Example: Petey insisted that the clan begin work on a ship to saie the lake, however the clan has not acquired enough of a surplus of wood to begin building a boat!! Petey is advised to keep in mind the resources that are a hand before making any further plans!)

I would have to say tho that those whom might be in these GM-assistant positions could not be active players(or not active players in the area for which they oversee), and their "True" identities would need to be kept a secret.

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Edited for bad grammar
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