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Re: Allies?

Postby PenDragon on Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:11 pm

Psshh... To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me that there would be a diplomatic Kern-block in place. ^^; It goes in line with his usual "can't be buggered" attitude regarding almost everything else in Path to Power.

Maybe he no longer trusts us to handle diplomacy ever since we ruined our first alliance? That would explain why he hooked us up with the Sharen without giving us much of a choice.

In that case, until the political scene changes (hopefully for the better) perhaps we should put discussions regarding allies on hold since it's a waste of time to talk about crap we can't change yet. :U
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Re: Allies?

Postby Hfar on Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:31 pm

PenDragon wrote:In that case, until the political scene changes (hopefully for the better) perhaps we should put discussions regarding allies on hold since it's a waste of time to talk about crap we can't change yet. :U

Mayhaps. But in the meantime, we can figure out what we want from other clans and more importantly what we have to offer.

As the newest kids on the block, we have very little to offer. Even before the Black Sun attack, we had little surplus food to offer and our iron was usually either sold or fashioned into tools/weapons. We still have our warriors, craftsmen, and other workers that we are more than willing to contract out, but those can be obtained from any clan. We know Ther is a valuable strategic target and we know this cavern better than anyone in Chel. And whether the people of Chel like it or not, we're still here and we ain't going anywhere we don't feel like.

So we still have goods and services to offer. Now what do we think we can get for them? And I shall smack the first person to whine about how we got nothing or how Kern is a meanie and all we can do is sulk.
We shall settle this in the ancient way. WITH A CHILDREN'S CARD GAME!
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Re: Allies?

Postby thealbinobutterfly on Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:00 am

(posting while getting ready for work. stupid flat iron takes ages. forgive any tones, being brisk.)

i've always maintained we have plenty to offer. mostly what seems to be the winner -is- our iron. Obviously there are other sources available, but if we can advance our ironcraft, perhaps the crafters and the forgeworkers teaming together somehow, they can figure out different methods/types/presentations? jewellery was a big hit once upon a time, too.

I would say we continue to focus on our building skills and selling ourselves that way. Once we have a fighting force again, we go back to selling ourselves as warriors. The old discussions of being a jack-of-all trades clan is prominent in my mind. we could opt to specialize, as was also one old discussion. the problem being, how can we actually get the numbers?

we have new problems too: all of our miners are wiped out. we have to re-train them all. our warrior forces are down, will kern force us to send all those old squads back to ortho for training? or does he have a different idea for us?

i suppose it comes down to two options in the end, no matter what: we choose to specialize, or we continue to be jack of all trades. I'm on the fence myself as to what we ought to do.
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Re: Allies?

Postby 3Power on Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:15 am

it's not about being satisfied for me. i've pushed for us to be allied with people and i've met the kern blockade. i wanted so badly for us to be allies with the kal and i had to warmonger us to repair our relationship with the svarts. however, it's exactly like i said: we won't get them in the sense we want. it's cold and clinical, business only partnerships.
That's the only sense people expect. We never wanted friends, we need allies.

he didnt want to make new clans for us. that is his actual reasoning.

Yeah, what a dickhole, a GM who doesn't want to make up new clans just because his players go exploring in random areas just to see what's there. The nerve.
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Re: Allies?

Postby Xalgoz on Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:10 am

When we get told by Anjhali directly that we're not powerful enough to tangle with Val clans, it's sort of lame to get the "I don't want to make up any more minor clans, play with the same three that have been there forever" treatment. There should be more than 3 non-guild minor clans in the city.
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Re: Allies?

Postby 3Power on Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:58 am

This game is canon, or at least we have been led to believe it is. Any new clans he makes need to fit within the lore of his setting, and it's hard to come up with 7 or so random clans at the behest of a single player's action and have them be meaningful. Do you really want a whole bunch of half-assed clans instead of a small group of well developed ones?

Honestly, I think a bunch of you should just go out and try GMing a game sometimes. It would be enlightening.
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Re: Allies?

Postby Kitab Al'Ibar on Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:30 am

Yes 3Power, thats why when we did Project Finding Nemo we talked about it with Kern first and he agreed to introduce a few new clans over a long period, i.e. not one every week, hence why if you look at it, the turns typically revealed one clan, investigated the clan for a turn or two, something else, look again. We wern't able to impact what clans came out of it unfortunately and what we got didn't really help us much.

GMing for over 100 people isn't easy, GMing for 4 or 5 people isn't easy - unless you are really lucky. We did try and talk it over with him, we did try and explain that we wanted to clear up some of the map, we wanted to try and find clans we could make some sort of trades with and we ended up with most we didn't have use for or the clan didn't want to interact with.
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Re: Allies?

Postby thealbinobutterfly on Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:05 pm

3Power wrote:
it's not about being satisfied for me. i've pushed for us to be allied with people and i've met the kern blockade. i wanted so badly for us to be allies with the kal and i had to warmonger us to repair our relationship with the svarts. however, it's exactly like i said: we won't get them in the sense we want. it's cold and clinical, business only partnerships.
That's the only sense people expect. We never wanted friends, we need allies.


you misinterpreted my response because you took it out of context, so please re-read the post at your leisure. If you have further difficulties please contact me in private, and i will be happy to clarify this and any other misunderstandings you have.

3Power wrote:
he didnt want to make new clans for us. that is his actual reasoning.

Yeah, what a dickhole, a GM who doesn't want to make up new clans just because his players go exploring in random areas just to see what's there. The nerve.


i'm glad we agree.
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Re: Allies?

Postby 3Power on Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:11 pm

you misinterpreted my response because you took it out of context, so please re-read the post at your leisure. If you have further difficulties please contact me in private, and i will be happy to clarify this and any other misunderstandings you have.

I misinterpreted nothing. Cold and clinical is fine.
i'm glad we agree.
We don't.
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Re: Allies?

Postby thealbinobutterfly on Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:00 am

3Power wrote:
you misinterpreted my response because you took it out of context, so please re-read the post at your leisure. If you have further difficulties please contact me in private, and i will be happy to clarify this and any other misunderstandings you have.

I misinterpreted nothing. Cold and clinical is fine.
i'm glad we agree.
We don't.


*highfive* 8D
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Re: Allies?

Postby James Rye on Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:23 pm

Well, looks like Anji sees the Nals as our allies and if she does so should our ambassador and the rest of us.^^

Sure we don´t need and won´t get friends with other clans, but we can try to make beneficial contracts with other minor clans such as the Kal who are willing to let us learn golem art aka give us infos how to improve and to who we could sell iron and steel. Or the Svars who gave us infos and give us jobs like protecting their caverns or such. Or the Sharen who let us learn Mana arts in ortho but want in exchange lots of things done from us.
Those clans may not be our friends but they are our allies for sure.
It´s just not the *join anytime when you´re in danger*-allies and more the *today we benefit from each other, but who knows about tomorrow*-ones.

And Xen really needs some kind of ingame system to know which one is our ally aka is on good terms with us, who are neutral, who´s our enemy, with who we have contracts, for who we did what job and our reputation from outside and such. I think it would help her alot in her job.
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Re: Allies?

Postby thealbinobutterfly on Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:06 pm

Well, looks like Anji sees the Nals as our allies and if she does so should our ambassador and the rest of us


i choked pretty damn hard on my meal when i saw that. do you know how much heat i got when i even suggested we view them as all-right? go back to when bel'xullyn stepped down, people were still pissed at the nals for messing up the svart real-estate offer. (even though bel listened and went according to the clan's will.)

i can;t control how kern makes my goddamn character act. he doesn;t even ask, he just swings for good story. so if you think i was behind that angry posturing you're very wrong.

as for a little bar? yeah would be nice. alot of things would be awesome-r if we could get them. what i really want is to finish off the map so we can find allies or such.
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Re: Allies?

Postby Bamawing on Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:56 pm

As usual, I think Butterfly (it feels so wierd to call you that; to me you're Xe) and Pendragon really come a lot closer to agreeing than it looks.

Calling another clan an "ally" won't ever mean what we want it to. And yes, I know you aren't expecting friendship. But a mutually beneficial long-term relationship isn't going to happen either. Nor is any relationship with any clan that involves even a mocendum... mosendum... (damn my parents' stupid Juno browser with no damn spell check, and damn the virus that keeps me from being on my machine) tiny amount of trust.

We will never be able to trust anything or anyone in Chel. Not even a teensy bit. Ever.

The absolute closest to an ally that we're ever going to have is what we've got now with the Nals and Sharen. To wit: we occasionally do things for each other (for a price, naturally), and we're reasonably sure that if one of us showed up at the others' compounds, he/she woudn't be instantly killed.

That's all we get.

I think what we keep hoping for is a relationship like we have with "our" merchants: another clan that we're actually happy to see. Ain't gonna happen. Chel simply does not work that way. Hell, if our merchants joined a clan or guild, I expect there would be some sort of rules that made them either stand-offish or start to ask a lot more of us.

Unless An'jhali starts sleeping with someone a la Quain and Ashie, at least. And our sweet An'jhali is far too modest.
Pendragon, get that grin off your face. I know Rhynny is hot, but I don't think Anj would go for it.
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Re: Allies?

Postby PenDragon on Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:46 am

To be honest, I don't know what to think anymore. ^^; There was a time when An'jhali yelled at us for cozying up to the Nals too much and threatened to banish people she thought were bought-off with Nal money, and now she sees them as allies perhaps more so than the rest of us do.

It's like PtP is slowly turning upside down. :0 What's next? Do recent events cause the Siksa'santi to stop being a-holes and a reconciliation occurs between An'jhali and Kendra? :A

It would be much easier to handle things if Kern just stopped changing details willy-nilly and kept things consistent... :U Or if nothing else, if he's going to hijack certain game elements from us and take control of them himself then it would save alot of trouble if he was just upfront about it.

Bamawing wrote:Pendragon, get that grin off your face. I know Rhynny is hot, but I don't think Anj would go for it.

Oh Bama, you know me SO well. }:3 XD
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