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Do you want a *Militia* with own armour/weapon/training for non-combat jobs?

Poll ended at Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:29 am

Yes
8
57%
No
5
36%
Dunno
1
7%
 
Total votes : 14

Re: Militia - smith, builders, minders and co

Postby James Rye on Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:05 pm

Seriously, i´ve never heard of any monks with no rules or teaching at all and only to be there to fight when being attacked. :P

So having a ideology which allows us to train with weapons and fight even when not being a combative job-taker is a good way to convice Kern, that this is okay cause it´s our nature/culture.^^

@Ein'keos
I don´t see your point, cause we do not *force* anyone to anything at all, less *real people*. XD
All we have are fantasy charas and on top of that only around half of them play at all.
Also a ideology/religion is there for show mostly, you can like democracy but that doesn´t mean that you MUST be in some party, does it? Same for religion, you can be a christian but that doesn´t MEAN that you have to go to church every sunday.
So i really don´t see any point in your argument there. We will use it as an excuse to have a militia mostly, not to force our people at each 7 day to rest with their work. :D

But Trey´s right with her idea to ask that per LA. When everything is over (so or so) and build up we can ask her if she allows us to have such a militia how we expect it to be, trained with weapons and kinda effective in battle.

Also for monks you did mean the Buddhism with zen and such plus their fight arts from the ancient times, did you Xen? So yeah, i may have run wild (a bit) but your idea does go in that direction and then we will need a well thought out ideology/religion/whatever else taco to convice him that also non-combative jobs can fight and train with weapons.
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Re: Militia - smith, builders, minders and co

Postby Jonarus_Drakus on Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:04 pm

I think that part of making the "pill" easier for Kern to swallow would be a definite process of each trade having training only in weapins that can be aplied to thier trade. Hammers for the Smiths & Builders, The pick-axes of the miners, the quater-staves (and maybe whips too :P ) of the overseers, and "hunter style" bow & spear combos for the harvesters. Techs and crafters, with no obvious combat link (aside from that cool mana-battery trick the crafters pulled) would get some kind of generic single-shot crossbow (in the works).

In feudal Japan, the kind of martial/weapon "arts" was heavily influenced by a persons social standing and trade (the nanignata sword-spear and it related nanignata-jutsu was particularly popular for women - and modern practicioners of the art are almost exclusively female). We can thus link in the 'tools of the trade' in similar fashion, using any number of "cultural precedents" to back them up (these "cultural precedents" could quite easily be linked into an overall "cultural idiology")

That said, i do agree that Sen'gil went a little bit overboard, this "cultural idiology" is definitely not something that would requre a new trade/rank. Indeed, it would mostly exist in the forums and would be mentioned in-comic rarely (if ever). Its more a tool to justify increased militia training than an actual "cultural effect".

I really am focusing on this whole "tools of the trade" approach i know, but I am quite convinced that it will work (and make defining militia sub-units and thier roles FAR easier as a bonus), so sorry if i seem like a broken tape, but ya gotta 'go with your gut' sometimes...

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Re: Militia - smith, builders, minders and co

Postby Thalar on Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:54 pm

I'd just like to add that while the healers have trained Tir'ay extensively, our Tir'ay skills have never been acknowledged in a combat situation. Not even when I specifically included us fighting alongside the warriors at the retaking of the tower. A disappointing result for having spent quite some time on training our Tir'ay. Perhaps it is silently contributing to our survival in combat situations, I at least hope so. But that seems to be it. So training another rank in some martial skill may not be as effective as we'd like it to be.

So far, the only groups other than warriors which have been allowed an active combat role are scouts and mana specialists, and both specialized in very different modes (ranged, mana) than the warriors. Other ranks contributing to any fight are only counted as untrained militia, from what we've seen. Kern has said in the past that cross-training isn't going to be effective, ranks have their areas of responsibility and they should not overlap. I have yet to see him change his mind on this.

I believe it may be more productive to come up with tactical applications for the ranks' own abilities, than trying to make all assistants into "warriors lite". Our other, better option is to have more people join the warriors.
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Re: Militia - smith, builders, minders and co

Postby James Rye on Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:25 pm

So back to the *how do we get the faceless to integrate into the game or at least take a damm job*?

With 120 more people it wouldn´t be a problem to fill every job with enough people, especially the warriors.
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Re: Militia - smith, builders, minders and co

Postby Tohya on Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:59 pm

A lot of the faceless were grandfathered in from the previous game, or the old combo subscriptions, and may have no interest in PtP.
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Re: Militia - smith, builders, minders and co

Postby Meckruco on Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:19 pm

James Rye wrote:So back to the *how do we get the faceless to integrate into the game or at least take a damm job*?

With 120 more people it wouldn´t be a problem to fill every job with enough people, especially the warriors.



we dont. they have to choose to get a face and job. and i do beleive kern has said this.
"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum" If you desire peace, prepare for war.
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Re: Militia - smith, builders, minders and co

Postby 3Power on Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:56 am

Thalar wrote:I'd just like to add that while the healers have trained Tir'ay extensively, our Tir'ay skills have never been acknowledged in a combat situation. Not even when I specifically included us fighting alongside the warriors at the retaking of the tower. A disappointing result for having spent quite some time on training our Tir'ay. Perhaps it is silently contributing to our survival in combat situations, I at least hope so. But that seems to be it. So training another rank in some martial skill may not be as effective as we'd like it to be.

So far, the only groups other than warriors which have been allowed an active combat role are scouts and mana specialists, and both specialized in very different modes (ranged, mana) than the warriors. Other ranks contributing to any fight are only counted as untrained militia, from what we've seen. Kern has said in the past that cross-training isn't going to be effective, ranks have their areas of responsibility and they should not overlap. I have yet to see him change his mind on this.

I believe it may be more productive to come up with tactical applications for the ranks' own abilities, than trying to make all assistants into "warriors lite". Our other, better option is to have more people join the warriors.

Kern said in the previous EA that techs using auto crossbows receive two penalties. One for being non-warrior types, and one for being untrained in the weapon in question. We can fix the latter, not the former.

Kern cannot tell us that battles cannot be won with the warriors/scouts/specialists alone and expect us to not do anything to increase the other ranks' wartime usefulness. Nevertheless, I have tried to get individual ranked to make use of their own, already present abilities. Taruna wants them as militia. 'nuff said.

Sen'gil, give up on the ideology thing, seriously. It's roleplay fluff that will convince Kern of nothing and has no place in a game like this.
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Re: Militia - smith, builders, minders and co

Postby Lyrthis on Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:27 am

Also i think an idea got stucked in some heads that Martial Arts=Shaolin Kung Fu=Tir'ay.(maybe its just because they got that picture thanks to Hongkong Movies).
But there are others, from Tai Chi Chuan to Capoeira, both are, as National Sports, much more prevalent and i may say both would fit much better as an example for Tir'ay then any hard Kung Fu style. Tir'ay may be a bit(much) more combat oriented then Capoeira and may be missing the health aspects of Tai Chi Chuan(but i may be wrong about that), but i think in terms of % number of populace that knows at least basics these two compare much better.
And both don't need any special kind of philosophical/ideological/religious membership to learn them.

But thats not the point of this thread anyway.(damn get i sidetracked easily *blush* )

back to topic, the questions are...
  • 1.do we need some sort of militia
i think in this thread the consensual answer to this is a big fat YES.
From an ingame/IC perspective i think that it will be that way as long as we are a minor clan... only a major clan has the manpower and resources to have a standing army large enough to fend of any and all attacks, exept maybe from another major clan(and then it still would be to costly, but may change if alliances are formed, if it sounds familiar, its were are atm, if not, go reread the main archive).
And more importantly, from a players point of view, everyone wants to take part if there is some major action happening, if not, he would have stayed faceless anyway and not have become a Player at all.

  • 2.how should a militia be organized/done
In this stage of the discussion we all can agree to the fact that we disagree about this. Which isn't hard as there are models ranging from Fork n'Torch Mobs over Minuteman to the Swiss Armed Forces and everything in between.

my shot at that big "HOW" would be a mix out of a volunteers militia and the Swiss Armed Forces Militia, looking like this:(including a How To Implement it without to much change to the rules)
You volunteer to be trained as a warrior or scout(becoming one for that time) and the warmaster may call on to you in times urgent to BE a warrior or scout.
Implementation:
one of the warriors and/or scouts(or maybe even one of the two ranked) puts up a volunteer work action(eg.Militia Training! Come train as Scout/Warrior!) which you can then vote for.
Those that voted will be trained as Scout/Warrior for that Turn/2Days, but now the warmaster can put you on a militialist(one scout, one warrior and you may only be on one) from which he can conscript you in times of need and then you are a warrior or scout till the situation is over. Naturally those conscripted will not be able to do their normal jobs in that time and are not available for their ranked.

That way only one rule must be added, that the WM may conscript/use people from the militialist as a requested resource.

  • 3.how can we sell a militia to the powers to be(you know... Kern) XD
that could be the hardest(and most simple) one and maybe warrants the opening of its own thread. My only idea for this problem is: do it through an Advise Leader action and popular vote.

And for involving the faceless, i remember Kern stated quite clearly in other relation then combat that the faceless really can't be used, they are just background peasants.
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Re: Militia - smith, builders, minders and co

Postby Ein'keos on Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:09 pm

An interesting and novel approach to the problem Lyrthis, way to think outside the box. You'd need Taruna on board for this and willing to give Kern the details she wants if any idea like this one is to actually happen.

With a desire to slightly modify your original idea I direct you to the Drowwiki article on the Kyorl'Solenurn Crusaders:

http://wiki.drowtales.com/index.php/Tro ... _Crusaders

We could model a militia like the one you suggest on these clan troops. No mana abilites, so no training in mana shields or the like, but we could train them to be effective basic troops by taking them out of the game for, say, 4 days of combat training. It'd make them more effective then just a blacksmith handed a sword and some armour but they'd not be proper warriors. Making them proper warriors would be a little unrealistic because how could one expect a part timer to be as effective as a professional, veteran soldier? Couldn't be done. A list like you suggest sounds like a good way to go but it'd require a minor site upgrade, like what went down when we got the ability to be injured. Perhaps with names higlighted in yellow instead of red, or automatically moved from their given ranks into a separate list.

One problem I see with this idea, of course, is that non-military ranks are NOT useless in combat situations. Me and my builders acting in our roles, for example, are the only reason the south wall hasn't fallen down. Likewise, the techs might prove very useful against that huge golem and if we'd reduced their number so as to contribute to avmilitia it might not have been the best thing for the clan as a whole. Other ranks, like the Crafters, are fulfilling support roles which are invaluable, so I must admit that while there is a worldsetting example of a working system like the one you propose and it might be feasible it might also end up kicking us in the butt if we under estimate the usefulness of the non-military ranks.

Perhaps another modification that could help make this system better would be if militia could only be released from their previous jobs at the permission of their ranked member. We couldn't have people leaving and coming back every hour, however, so once released they'd need to stay released for the duration of a battle. It'd add to the general level of strategy we'd need to employ in the game as we'd have to decide which ranks to release and when. Those who hadn't volunteered for militia would, I suppose, stay with the rank and act as support in the various capacities mentioned.

This is all spur-of-the-moment thought on the subject and this idea is still far from being ready to put before Kern. I think it's going to need more people to dissect it and look at ways to make it workable in such a way that it's fair and keeps the level of strategy we have to employ as a clan high. We can't just give ourselves secret weapons that limit our need to find creative solutions to problems. If we were to just double the amount of warriors we have Kern would just throw an equal number of enemies our way. So if this is going to happen it has to be as something that, ultimately, makes the game more fun and gives us more decisions to make in a crisis.
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Re: Militia - smith, builders, minders and co

Postby Exate on Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:59 am

Read through this thread, and one thing stuck out at me. Please forgive me if I'm less than entirely articulate in expressing myself in what follows.

thealbinobutterfly wrote:And so we face this challenge: How can we convince kern and give him good logical reasons for militarizing ourselves, short of declaring ourselves a military clan?
We should declare ourselves a military clan. Other clans already think of us that way- we've been hired on three different occasions to do jobs for others, and all of them (Svartelos hit job, Kal'yantra mine job, Nal'sarkoth escort job) were militarily oriented. We persist in not thinking of ourselves that way because we want to be like a city, and peace is nice, and all that jazz. But we're in Chel, where peace emerges from being strong enough that no one can kill you and take your shit. And even then you don't get guarantees. Independence requires maintenance of that independence by force; we can be peaceful if we sign over our security to someone strong enough to look after us and pay them tribute, but we're not willing to do that, so that only leaves the option of looking after ourselves, and we're half-assing it.

17% of the clan (28% of employed) are warriors, scouts, or mana specialists. That's not enough. Particularly not for a clan that others view as militant- because when they attack someone they expect to be strong, it's with overwhelming force. Weathering this attack will only make us seem weaker and more vulnerable, because everyone will know that we took losses and got part of our fortress blown up. They'll be coming, and what will we be doing to make ourselves stronger? Training our military in new skills is exceedingly difficult because we don't have enough people to take the personnel loss, getting new equipment is difficult because we don't have a ton of money and our resource flow is limited, and we're frighteningly easily distracted.

Critical military support jobs are the blacksmiths, crafters, builders, healers, and techs; stealing too many people from these jobs will weaken our war machine. Our current personnel ratios aren't all that great, though- five techs could probably do the job that ours are doing, in most cases, because they're so limited by lack of gems that they only rarely actually use their full potential. There are probably other tweaks to be made as well. All these jobs can basically continue as they are now, with more of an emphasis towards military application over civilian.

The harvesters and miners are both ultimately disposable jobs, because we can hire Chelians to do the same thing. Cut both professions down to maybe three people, who work as consultants/directors to Chelian hirelings and make sure that we're not getting fleeced. Even better, they'll have few enough personnel that getting more advanced training at Orthorbbae will be a snap. The overseers are primarily needed in large numbers because we've got significant numbers of poorly trained slaves; get trained-to-obedience slaves whenever we can, increase the slave:overseer ratio until they actively start causing trouble and brutally crack down on anything they try to keep them in line. Slaves will have to replace a large portion of our workforce to supplement Chelian hirelings and we can't increase the number of overseers since we're looking for personnel, so we need to push the limits.

All the spare personnel that we free up from the above (~25) get poured into the military. Warriors primarily, but if we actually declare ourselves a military clan the GM would be unjustified in not loosening the cap on mana specialists a bit so that we can train up a few more for war, I think. That will give us enough additional squads to not sweat having two squads in training as much of the time as we don't absolutely need to be training another profession, and also provide a fair bit of additional military muscle.


The likely counterpoint to this is that we'll be crippling our economy, but we won't be for two reasons.

Firstly, war is a lucrative profession; it's clear that there are abundant combat jobs to be had and having additional warriors will let us patrol our sector with greater presence and give the impression of security, hopefully attracting more people- because a showing like the current battle won't be bringing many people in. There's also a lot of loot to be gathered from every battle won, which can be sold for ada or used to boost our forces; as long as we don't squat on it uselessly like we've done all too often in the past.

Secondly, we can hire Chelians and employ slaves to do our jobs and still make a profit, albeit a slimmer one than currently. We don't actually have in-game evidence for this because we've never tried it, but it is literally the economic principle upon which many corporations have gotten massive profits- primary industries can and do operate quite profitably using masses of relatively low-skill workers. As long as we have a few high-skill personnel left (the few still in the job plus spot help from the mana specialists where applicable) this should work with hardly a hitch.


In summary: We need to accept that we're going to get killed without a bigger and better military and refocus our clan significantly to solve the problem. Being a military clan is not a bad thing when we know that Chel is moving from centuries of relative stability into a period of turmoil.
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Re: Militia - smith, builders, minders and co

Postby James Rye on Sun Sep 26, 2010 1:10 pm

Then if we want to be a military clan, we shouldn´t worry only about the scouts/warriors adn Mana specialists.

We also need to take other jobs into acount and how they can make our clan more powerful.

Like the techs could make wargolems to support the warriors and as we have seen from the black suns mana bombs would be a plus too.
Smith could try to make better quailty swords/armour or a different kind of armor like full armour of this ancient one or other kind of swords like claymores to be used for more offensive combat.
Overseers will need more people to oversee the many slaves to suppor the other non-combative jobs.
Harvesters can make a garden inside Ther in cases of long battles in which we lose our way to the riverland as it had happen just now. If it weren´t for the black suns, but another clan, they would just hunger us out now and surround us.
Miners can try to find either better iron/cristall for smith/techs or they manga a way to get more iron so that we can sell it to buy things to support the clan like dawmere for the warriors.
Builders can build some things at the wall like battlements or a building for the gate, a gatehousesomething, plus some possible ways to have mounted crossbows and boiled water from crafters integrated.

Things like that.^^
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Re: Militia - smith, builders, minders and co

Postby Lyrthis on Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:23 am

ooh some things to adress to *heehee*. I'll take the snipets i think are the main points and lets start to discuss them

Ein'keos wrote:...With a desire to slightly modify your original idea I direct you to the Drowwiki article on the [url=http://wiki.drowtales.com/index.php/Troops:Kyorl'solenurn_Crusaders
]Kyorl'Solenurn Crusaders[/url]
i read that too while researching militias and there different forms, I just put a version up that i thougth to be more fitting for us Tei'kaliath, but yeah not unlike them.

Ein'keos wrote:...No mana abilites... could train them to be effective basic troops... Making them proper warriors would be a little unrealistic because how could one expect a part timer to be as effective as a professional, veteran soldier?...A list like you suggest sounds like a good way to go but it'd require a minor site upgrade
My idea was more in the mind of it being simple and easy to implement then being realistic, aka.no change to the site needed and Rules only appended, as a list could also take the form of an excelsheet linked in the forum or a listing with the names in the warmasters thread(as they already do with the warriors), i understand that a parttimer wouldn't be as effective, but it would also add one more level to the equation that the GM/Kern has to do when he wants to compute the outcome of a battle. If its no problem to be added then in with it, if not, i'll opt to keep it simple... tho it would be nice to have it colorcoded and also to have it in your chars description as, eg.: Postions: Tech+Militia ^^

Ein'keos wrote:...non-military ranks are NOT useless in combat situations... might also end up kicking us in the butt if we under estimate the usefulness of the non-military ranks... only be released from their previous jobs at the permission of their ranked member... once released they'd need to stay released for the duration of a battle.
YES non-warriors are usefull too in combat(else i would be a warrior, not a tech :D) and about when to be released, looks like i really forgot about that, but could be done rather easily with Right-of-Way rules and/or(better and) discussion between the ranked.
Eg.for Right-of-Way in descending Order: 1.Volunteer Work->2.your Boss/Ranked->3.Warmaster/mistress->4.Ambassador->5.other Ranked(eg.Smith needs Tech to assemble a Golemsword, but Engineerranked is away)

Ein'keos wrote:...Those who hadn't volunteered for militia would, I suppose, stay with the rank and act as support in the various capacities mentioned.
naturaly, that is your Job ;)

Ein'keos wrote:...it's going to need more people to dissect it and look at ways to make it workable... it has to be as something that, ultimately, makes the game more fun and gives us more decisions to make in a crisis.
true... and even truer on so many levels that it would fill the servers HD if i wrote them all down.... ^^;


Exate wrote:Read through this thread, and one thing stuck out at me. Please forgive me if I'm less than entirely articulate in expressing myself in what follows.

thealbinobutterfly wrote:And so we face this challenge: How can we convince kern and give him good logical reasons for militarizing ourselves, short of declaring ourselves a military clan?
We should declare ourselves a military clan.
nope, as its not really needed.

Other clans already think of us that way- we've been hired on three different occasions to do jobs for others, and all of them (Svartelos hit job, Kal'yantra mine job, Nal'sarkoth escort job) were militarily oriented.
We also send out Healers to Chel... on daily basis/much more often then we fight and when i reread those three fights, two weren't big wins, hell, in the Mine we even got our a**es kicked in the first round.
Exate wrote:...But we're in Chel, where peace emerges from being strong enough that no one can kill you and take your shit. And even then you don't get guarantees.Independence requires maintenance of that independence by force; we can be peaceful if we sign over our security to someone strong enough to look after us and pay them tribute, but we're not willing to do that, so that only leaves the option of looking after ourselves, and we're half-assing it.
You're quite right, but i don't think that in Chell we are looked at as warrior clan... on the contrary, we did not win our fights immediately(see above), but we also have to sell our services for Ada like commoners, instead of just going to start a money racket on the stores the commoners have(like most other clans do). Also i think we are already paying Tribute to the Sharen... or don't we? Which is, in my opinion, the real cause behind the attack from the BS, as they are most likely allied to the opposing faction(the Sarghress, but thats something we don't know atm) or are at least thinking we are weak and easy picking. But anyhow, thats something we should discuss in another thread when we have more info, now its about if we need a and how to implement militia.

Exate wrote:...Slaves will have to replace a large portion of our workforce
even if it has nothing to do with the militia thread here, oooh yes, wouldn't it be nice if we had more of them and being able to do more then the most simple jobs? maybe I should bring that up in the Slavemasters thread.


James Rye wrote:..be a military clan...other jobs into acount... wargolems... black suns mana bombs... battlements or a building for the gate, a gatehousesomething, plus some possible ways to have mounted crossbows and boiled water from crafters integrated.
Things like that.^^
as its not about militia, only a short notice, as above, turning into a military clan is not really an option, i think it would cut us off from too many possibilities. Wargolem+Manabombs, well let me assure you, that I WILL bring them up in Tohya's Department of Wrenching right after the battle is over, as i will the subject of embattlements like Barbican, Glacis, Redan, Moats, Murder-Holes and everything that is needed for a Trace Italienne or Star Fortress. In Fact im allready drawing designs for that ;)
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Re: Militia - smith, builders, minders and co

Postby thealbinobutterfly on Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:27 am

Exate wrote:Read through this thread, and one thing stuck out at me. Please forgive me if I'm less than entirely articulate in expressing myself in what follows.

thealbinobutterfly wrote:And so we face this challenge: How can we convince kern and give him good logical reasons for militarizing ourselves, short of declaring ourselves a military clan?
We should declare ourselves a military clan. Other clans already think of us that way- we've been hired on three different occasions to do jobs for others, and all of them (Svartelos hit job, Kal'yantra mine job, Nal'sarkoth escort job) were militarily oriented. We persist in not thinking of ourselves that way because we want to be like a city, and peace is nice, and all that jazz. But we're in Chel, where peace emerges from being strong enough that no one can kill you and take your shit. And even then you don't get guarantees. Independence requires maintenance of that independence by force; we can be peaceful if we sign over our security to someone strong enough to look after us and pay them tribute, but we're not willing to do that, so that only leaves the option of looking after ourselves, and we're half-assing it.

17% of the clan (28% of employed) are warriors, scouts, or mana specialists. That's not enough. Particularly not for a clan that others view as militant- because when they attack someone they expect to be strong, it's with overwhelming force. Weathering this attack will only make us seem weaker and more vulnerable, because everyone will know that we took losses and got part of our fortress blown up. They'll be coming, and what will we be doing to make ourselves stronger? Training our military in new skills is exceedingly difficult because we don't have enough people to take the personnel loss, getting new equipment is difficult because we don't have a ton of money and our resource flow is limited, and we're frighteningly easily distracted.

Critical military support jobs are the blacksmiths, crafters, builders, healers, and techs; stealing too many people from these jobs will weaken our war machine. Our current personnel ratios aren't all that great, though- five techs could probably do the job that ours are doing, in most cases, because they're so limited by lack of gems that they only rarely actually use their full potential. There are probably other tweaks to be made as well. All these jobs can basically continue as they are now, with more of an emphasis towards military application over civilian.

The harvesters and miners are both ultimately disposable jobs, because we can hire Chelians to do the same thing. Cut both professions down to maybe three people, who work as consultants/directors to Chelian hirelings and make sure that we're not getting fleeced. Even better, they'll have few enough personnel that getting more advanced training at Orthorbbae will be a snap. The overseers are primarily needed in large numbers because we've got significant numbers of poorly trained slaves; get trained-to-obedience slaves whenever we can, increase the slave:overseer ratio until they actively start causing trouble and brutally crack down on anything they try to keep them in line. Slaves will have to replace a large portion of our workforce to supplement Chelian hirelings and we can't increase the number of overseers since we're looking for personnel, so we need to push the limits.

All the spare personnel that we free up from the above (~25) get poured into the military. Warriors primarily, but if we actually declare ourselves a military clan the GM would be unjustified in not loosening the cap on mana specialists a bit so that we can train up a few more for war, I think. That will give us enough additional squads to not sweat having two squads in training as much of the time as we don't absolutely need to be training another profession, and also provide a fair bit of additional military muscle.


The likely counterpoint to this is that we'll be crippling our economy, but we won't be for two reasons.

Firstly, war is a lucrative profession; it's clear that there are abundant combat jobs to be had and having additional warriors will let us patrol our sector with greater presence and give the impression of security, hopefully attracting more people- because a showing like the current battle won't be bringing many people in. There's also a lot of loot to be gathered from every battle won, which can be sold for ada or used to boost our forces; as long as we don't squat on it uselessly like we've done all too often in the past.

Secondly, we can hire Chelians and employ slaves to do our jobs and still make a profit, albeit a slimmer one than currently. We don't actually have in-game evidence for this because we've never tried it, but it is literally the economic principle upon which many corporations have gotten massive profits- primary industries can and do operate quite profitably using masses of relatively low-skill workers. As long as we have a few high-skill personnel left (the few still in the job plus spot help from the mana specialists where applicable) this should work with hardly a hitch.


In summary: We need to accept that we're going to get killed without a bigger and better military and refocus our clan significantly to solve the problem. Being a military clan is not a bad thing when we know that Chel is moving from centuries of relative stability into a period of turmoil.


i agree, but how can we implement all of this? it will take time, and we'd have many hurdles, of the kern variety. plus, some people simply dont want to be warriors.
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thealbinobutterfly
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Re: Militia - smith, builders, minders and co

Postby 3Power on Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:40 am

Um, yeah. We aren't allowed to hire Chellians. Even short-time work requires an LA advice, long-term is right out.
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Re: Militia - smith, builders, minders and co

Postby James Rye on Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:23 pm

Don´t ranked have the power to hire help for their actions? I thought they got get extra help for some ada to get more swords done or to build a building faster and such.
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