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Re: Of Oaths and Necessary Action

Postby Writer on Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:09 am

thatguyvex wrote:That's alright, I forgive you. :P


Now see, this is a burn I can agree with. *wee*

And thatguyvex brings up many good points, so I'll say this: I'm not opposed to cheering up An'jhali. I wouldn't vote for a counter-option, as I said.

Reassuring her of our unity is a temporary measure at best, though. As long as Kern gives IC responses to OOC conflict and as long as people are willing to debate and lose patience with one another, we will not be able to uphold the spirit of an oath of unity. It could even be as simple as a few new players showing up and losing their cool.

There's always been conflicts of opinion in Path to Power. The entire game is built up around it. What, after all, IS the best path to power? No-one quite agrees, and there are choices and options a-plenty, so we have the advices and votes to lead the way, and the forum and chat to discuss their merits and faults. What's been somewhat lacking on those lately, however, is respect for one another, a more friendly atmosphere.

Lastly, I think there are better ways (and less silly-awkward ways than a group hug option) to cheer up An'jhali. I'm also getting somewhat tired of having to cheer her up every time Kern implies she's being down. Maybe, once, we should just try to let her be for a while?

Hmm... though I wonder if we couldn't get her some paper and ink so she would finally get around to write that book, "My Clan: A Nuthouse".
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Re: Of Oaths and Necessary Action

Postby dialacton21 on Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:09 pm

Wow this is an interesting topic. I've been a lurker for quite sometime and I'd like to excuse myself for this, but I just read the news post that Kern is seriously considering on ending PtP. This is a shame I feel, because I've been following this story for a very long time (at least since the slaver situation). It is interesting to note that in the beginning there was a much larger feeling of solidarity because we needed to stabilize our situation (we had to fight for our survival). I think ever since we solidified our position in the cavern we've lost that feeling of solidairity.

We are no longer fighting for survival in an unknown area and culture. We are a power (albiet a minor one). The debates become increasingly focused on how to maintain and expand that power which diluted the vision or goal we once had. The irony is that as we get closer to that goal or vision we have more and more conflicts with each other. Simply because each of us has a different vision of what is good for the clan. Back then it was very flexibel because we were a blank slate. We could be what we wanted to be.

Now problems arise because on certain parts we have solidified also our identity based on previous events. Just like Anjhali growing into what she is now. We made decisions that effected her growth and she is now what we made. So we have to live with that.

Maybe it's an idea to have a very clear goal (or vision) of how our clan can be that everybody can share. To hammer out core values and remain consistent with them in regard to our decision making. If there is a fight about what to do next we can always fall back on those core values. And of course there is always room for debate.
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Re: Of Oaths and Necessary Action

Postby Jonarus_Drakus on Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:52 am

First off, i aplogise if my last post seemed preachy to anyone (aprarently so, not to name names in argumentative fashion and thus ruin the very point i was trying to make). The tone was born out of extream frustration at the lack of civil discussion and the presence of pointless arguments...

I totaly agree that 'conflict' (from differences of opinion) are an important and neccisary part of the PtP mechanic (and overall experience), what isn't neccisary is people getting carried away, and suggesting that resonable counters to thier ideas are un-reasonable and/or personal attacks. This has happened more than once and has involved various different individuals (again no counter-productive name naming here, move along!).

I have a limited amount of time on the net right now, so I'll refrain from soap-boxing...

JD
> J'hon D'rak Tei'Kaliath. D'rak Patriarch, KIA on the 12th day of the 3rd Moon
> Eh'rin D'rak Tei'Kaliath. D'rak Dev'ess: viewtopic.php?f=74&t=14467&p=765500#p758482
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Re: Of Oaths and Necessary Action

Postby Jonarus_Drakus on Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:10 am

Normaly i hate double-posting, but theres a bit of a time-gap so i figure Its safe to do so...

To the issue at hand, I'm inclined to think that the "beginers guides", while useful, just don't cut it in terms of expected standards of behavior. What I'm proposing is that some kind of 'Code of Coduct' be writen up (I am willing to do this myself), that clearly defines what kind of behavior is acceptable. Specificaly, a 'line in the sand' deffinition of the difference between valid discussions of opinions (and thier reasons), and pointless/excessive arguements... Another point to consider is posible punishment(s) for habitual/repeat offenders (assuming the 'code' becomes accepted as "official")

At this point all I'm asking is weather the MAJORITY of people think somethink like this would be useful. Discussing what it would contain would be done latter (if at all). Assuming I do write up any 'preliminary' version, i would post it here for modification before anything else (personaly, i would want to send a revised version to Kern at some point for his input - and his 'ruber stamp of officialness' if he approves of the idea in general).

So, do we need to create a PtP "Code of Conduct", yea/nea?

JD - who votes "yea" if you were wondering.
> J'hon D'rak Tei'Kaliath. D'rak Patriarch, KIA on the 12th day of the 3rd Moon
> Eh'rin D'rak Tei'Kaliath. D'rak Dev'ess: viewtopic.php?f=74&t=14467&p=765500#p758482
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Re: Of Oaths and Necessary Action

Postby Elkantar on Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:24 pm

I think its something that should be considered, so I vote yes. :p
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Re: Of Oaths and Necessary Action

Postby Finish on Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:48 am

Such a code would certainly help people to notice if they or somebody else crosses a line. Therefore: Yes. :)
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Re: Of Oaths and Necessary Action

Postby Taruna on Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:02 am

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Re: Of Oaths and Necessary Action

Postby Jonarus_Drakus on Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:35 am

No doubt Taru, these thing can be found almost everywhere... excpet here (as far as I've been able to tell... I'm thinking we should change that.

JD
> J'hon D'rak Tei'Kaliath. D'rak Patriarch, KIA on the 12th day of the 3rd Moon
> Eh'rin D'rak Tei'Kaliath. D'rak Dev'ess: viewtopic.php?f=74&t=14467&p=765500#p758482
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Re: Of Oaths and Necessary Action

Postby 3Power on Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:20 pm

Well j'hon, frankly I am against any and all moral codes produced by you when you can't even follow the rules already posted in this forum:
* One issue per discussion thread.
* The subject title should reflect the issue being discussed.

* If an issue should turn out to actually be several smaller issues that need separate discussions, please split the old thread into a thread per single smaller issue, and just link to these new threads in the original thread.
- This is in order for all the smaller issues to be allowed a proper discussion, instead of one of them overshadowing all the others.

* Do NOT discuss more than one issue per thread.

That said, I realize you come from Australia, land of censorship, but here on the internet I would say most of us like our free speech the way it is: unimpeded.

So no, I do not support any sort of asinine "Code of Conduct." If you have a problem with another poster, use the report button. If the mods ignore you, then you're probably over-reacting. It's a simple as that.
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Re: Of Oaths and Necessary Action

Postby Jonarus_Drakus on Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:01 am

* One issue per discussion thread.


I *AM* doing this, I am suggesting ways that issues may be solved, which was, if you re-read the origional post, that is definitely considered part of the purpose of this thread! (True, there is a certain amout of personal opinion in my holding this belief but THAT is not against the rules, in fact or in spirit)

That said, I realize you come from Australia, land of censorship, but here on the internet I would say most of us like our free speech the way it is: unimpeded.


Dont make this personal Trey, you WILL NOT WIN. I have told you repetedly to be mindful of others and you continue to ignore this simple request...

So no, I do not support any sort of asinine "Code of Conduct." If you have a problem with another poster, use the report button. If the mods ignore you, then you're probably over-reacting. It's a simple as that.


...Thusly i will be taking your advice and reporting your post as offensive. Good day!

JD
> J'hon D'rak Tei'Kaliath. D'rak Patriarch, KIA on the 12th day of the 3rd Moon
> Eh'rin D'rak Tei'Kaliath. D'rak Dev'ess: viewtopic.php?f=74&t=14467&p=765500#p758482
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Re: Of Oaths and Necessary Action

Postby Elkantar on Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:15 am

3Power wrote:Well j'hon, frankly I am against any and all moral codes produced by you when you can't even follow the rules already posted in this forum:
* One issue per discussion thread.
* The subject title should reflect the issue being discussed.

* If an issue should turn out to actually be several smaller issues that need separate discussions, please split the old thread into a thread per single smaller issue, and just link to these new threads in the original thread.
- This is in order for all the smaller issues to be allowed a proper discussion, instead of one of them overshadowing all the others.

* Do NOT discuss more than one issue per thread.

That said, I realize you come from Australia, land of censorship, but here on the internet I would say most of us like our free speech the way it is: unimpeded.

So no, I do not support any sort of asinine "Code of Conduct." If you have a problem with another poster, use the report button. If the mods ignore you, then you're probably over-reacting. It's a simple as that.


I think you misconstrue freedom of speech with being able to say what ever you want to say. Not only that, you forget that this is a private forum, run and owned by the Drowtales staff. This is not a public board, and thus, freedom of speech does not apply here. Your "right" to post here can be taken away on their whim, and no law for freedom of speech will protect you. You are only allowed to say whatever the Drowtales staff deems acceptable.

I love my freedom of speech as much as the next guy/gal, but I also understand reasonable restraint. I dont go around spewing filth out of my mouth just cause I technically am legally allowed to in my nation, and I hope you'd agree on that point.


Taruna wrote:http://www.albion.com/netiquette/corerules.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette

There are a wide number of them in the internet.


Indeed there are, but who goes out of their way to look for one unless they're directed to it? :p

That being said, I think a code of conduct and/or a FAQ on how to behave and interact with others in PtP would be a good idea.
"Stand up be Strong,
know Right from wrong,
forever hence believe yourself."



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Re: Of Oaths and Necessary Action

Postby Jonarus_Drakus on Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:24 am

Having had a little time to recover from Trey's grossly insulting post, I have been able to take on thing from it, I have decided that once i get around to writing up a draft Code of Conduct (CoC in short from now on), I will be posting it in a seperate thread, so that this thread can be retained for the purpose of listing issues and general sugestions of posible fixes for said issues.

I will post again with a link once i have the new thread up (there will also be a link placed in that thread back to this one).

JD
> J'hon D'rak Tei'Kaliath. D'rak Patriarch, KIA on the 12th day of the 3rd Moon
> Eh'rin D'rak Tei'Kaliath. D'rak Dev'ess: viewtopic.php?f=74&t=14467&p=765500#p758482
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Re: Of Oaths and Necessary Action

Postby 3Power on Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:56 am

*withdrawn*
I *AM* doing this, I am suggesting ways that issues may be solved, which was, if you re-read the origional post, that is definitely considered part of the purpose of this thread! (True, there is a certain amout of personal opinion in my holding this belief but THAT is not against the rules, in fact or in spirit)
I love how you just flat out ignored this part:
* If an issue should turn out to actually be several smaller issues that need separate discussions, please split the old thread into a thread per single smaller issue, and just link to these new threads in the original thread.

Dont make this personal Trey, you WILL NOT WIN.
*blink*
I have told you repetedly to be mindful of others and you continue to ignore this simple request...
Which is exactly it J'hon. You have come to me an annoying amount of times complaining about my posting style, but I've yet to see you confront anyone else. Anyone with two eyes and a brain can tell this is about a problem you have with me, unless you want to point towards other people you have problems with. I made it personal, huh? Right.
...Thusly i will be taking your advice and reporting your post as offensive. Good day!

Hahahaha oh man... You really haven't been too many places on the internet, have you? I should link you to posts of real jerkasses who I myself tried to get banned for being mean.

My advice, j'hon, is to grow some thick skin. Whining about other people doesn't get you anywhere, and it does nothing when you meet the next jerkass. Some jackasses were mocking my 10 year old van the other day. I drove off. Would you have gone to the police and filed a report? ^^;
I think you misconstrue freedom of speech with being able to say what ever you want to say. Not only that, you forget that this is a private forum, run and owned by the Drowtales staff. This is not a public board, and thus, freedom of speech does not apply here. You are only allowed to say whatever the Drowtales staff deems acceptable.
Which is why it is up to the drowtales staff to come up with a code of conduct and should they choose to, enforce it, not you.

I love my freedom of speech as much as the next guy/gal, but I also understand reasonable restraint. I dont go around spewing filth out of my mouth just cause I technically am legally allowed to in my nation, and I hope you'd agree on that point.
You guys have no idea how much I restrain myself with you. :V There would be a lot more f-words being thrown around if I wasn't.
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Re: Of Oaths and Necessary Action

Postby Jonarus_Drakus on Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:06 am

>shakes his head sadly<

I don't find anybody elses posting style to be offensive Trey. You should take the hint here and realise that this means you are the one that is deviating from the norm and pull yourself back in line. This is not a personal attack on you, you have made some great suggestions in the past that i have been happy to support, it i was waging some sort of personal vendetta against you i would not have done so.

But here you are, once again, being un-neccisarily argumentative and aggressive, which have been repetedly asked to stop (and not just by me either!), and generaly degrading my ability to enjoy playing PtP.

So please, please, PLEASE, stop it with the aggression and the insults (if you spoke to me like you have here in person you would be needing medical attention right now, THATS how offensive your being to me right now - and this is coming from sombody who has both served with the military -thick skin aquired from basic training- and is currently in the process of joining the police force).

Now, in attempt to be civil that past experience had shown will probably amount to naught... What sort of 'van' out of curriosity (I happen to be an automotive afficianado amoungst everything else and there are actually a few 'vans' out there that are actually kinda cool in my book)?

JD
> J'hon D'rak Tei'Kaliath. D'rak Patriarch, KIA on the 12th day of the 3rd Moon
> Eh'rin D'rak Tei'Kaliath. D'rak Dev'ess: viewtopic.php?f=74&t=14467&p=765500#p758482
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Re: Of Oaths and Necessary Action

Postby 3Power on Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:26 am

I don't find anybody elses posting style to be offensive Trey. You should take the hint here and realise that this means you are the one that is deviating from the norm and pull yourself back in line. This is not a personal attack on you, you have made some great suggestions in the past that i have been happy to support, it i was waging some sort of personal vendetta against you i would not have done so.
You do not find anyone elses' posting style to be offensive... but this attempt to put a code of conduct in is not a personal attack?
Contradiction #1
So please, please, PLEASE, stop it with the aggression and the insults (if you spoke to me like you have here in person you would be needing medical attention right now, THATS how offensive your being to me right now - and this is coming from sombody who has both served with the military -thick skin aquired from basic training- and is currently in the process of joining the police force).

You have thick skin, but a post of that minor a level is sufficient enough to enrage you to inflict bodily harm?
Contradiction #2

Seriously j'hon, if my words sting you this much, try imagining what you would do if this girl said this crap to you: Link
I hope that helped put things into perspective.

You should take the hint here and realise that this means you are the one that is deviating from the norm and pull yourself back in line.
Yeah, I like my individuality, thank you.
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