Where the clan gathers to discuss the issues raised in the Leader and Event archives.
The Conference Room is for serious discussion only.
Everyone is encouraged to participate, but this forum has special rules! Make sure to read it before posting!

Re: Dvara'ka subhouse LA

Postby Catriana on Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:47 pm

That is unnecessary. Why do we need subhouses full of NPC's when we have clan members? That doesn't make sense to me. Kern isn't going to just start giving us armies just because we want to do a subhouse. We would still have to use our people and our numbers, we couldn't start putting NPC's in there just because. Snatching enemies and turning them into Devesses is not how I would like our clan to roll when we become a major clan.

Where are we going to get these NPC's from? Fallen enemies? How do we know they're even competent enough to run something like that and benefit us? What if they suck? Then we'd have our own clan to worry about AND this house of fallen enemies that really didn't even need to be there in the first place.

I don't see how subhouses would boost the economy considering the fact that they are still part of the clan.
“The most I can do for my friend is simply be his friend." -Henry David Thoreau
User avatar
Catriana
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 2947
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:04 am
Location: Washington

Re: Dvara'ka subhouse LA

Postby Xalgoz on Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:02 pm

Could be fallen enemies, or simply absorbed rivals. If we overpower someone and they back down without a fight and accept our leadership, that's material for a subhouse. This would be the ideal fate for clans like the Siksa, Svarts, Kalyantra (although it's said they have been able to avoid being absorbed by Great Clans so we likely would fail also)- rather than annihilating them or simply leaving them behind as we move on to a bigger political stage.

The economic part works the same as the settlers we'll have. They run their own affairs, collect money for merc jobs or taxing their own areas, and pay us a cut in exchange for being part of the clan. If we go to war, we'd call them up and ask for additional warriors to suplement our main force. They would be inferoir to our own, more than likely, but still useful for numbers. Because we have so few true Tei'kaliath, and are unlikely to experience a huge spike in actual player population (it'd be awesome if we had 400 people by next year but it seems unlikely, I'd be happy with mid 300's), the only way to truly grow in power to rival the Great Clans is to incorporate NPCs, the first step of which is the settlement. The growth model would be roughly that of the Nal Sarkoth, as that's the one most viable for us. A main family with subhouses they've absorbed from elsewhere, in addition to mercenary forces.
Xalgoz Kae'sora- Tei'kaliath Scout
Xalgoz
Demon
 
Posts: 632
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:58 am
Location: Ther'avare
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Dvara'ka subhouse LA

Postby Catriana on Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:00 am

I do not support using fallen enemies to create subhouses in our clan. I just don't. You might as well put a knife in your own back. If you cannot trust the people in your clan, you are at a disadvantage and honestly? If you bring in your enemies and put trust in them, you deserve to get backstabbed.

Maybe I'm not getting it but I do not see the merit of having people who wanted to kill me become a part of my clan. I don't even know how this keeps getting supported because it makes 0 logical sense to me.

Using fallen enemies to create subhouses, I think, should be something rarely done, if at all. The entire notion that subhouses should be founded by absorbing remants of our enemies sounds asinine to me. I don't think I'll ever be able to support it and I really think we need to come up with something better than that. It sounds more like a ploy to ease our guilty consciouses when we have to go and slaughter people because they're being stupid and we had to get physical. Doing it for that reason just makes me wonder why folks even play. Why play a game where the purpose is to struggle and become a powerful clan (and yeah, that includes beating some heads in and doing some rather questionable things) and you're practically a pacifist and you bring that into the game? I don't believe in wars or killing people either but...yeah. I can seperate myself from the game.

I don't think you understand that you need Minor Clans. Major clans still need the little people. You can't just 'absorb' them randomly whenever you feel like it. Then you're just screwing with the city's system as a whole. I can't support that.

Economic: Why are we taxing our own clan members again? And do you honestly think Kern is going to allow your idea to happen that way? You're assuming that these people will cooperate and try to work with us, you're assuming that Kern would allow us to do this with little resistance. Making those sort of assumptions will only lead to heartache and tears when it comes to him. We would have to police our own 'clan' members as well as police settlers. It does us no benefit.
“The most I can do for my friend is simply be his friend." -Henry David Thoreau
User avatar
Catriana
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 2947
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:04 am
Location: Washington

Re: Dvara'ka subhouse LA

Postby Xalgoz on Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:28 am

We have no idea if the mechanic is viable or not, obviously, thus, no one is assuming anything. It's something to think about. ^^;
Xalgoz Kae'sora- Tei'kaliath Scout
Xalgoz
Demon
 
Posts: 632
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:58 am
Location: Ther'avare
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Dvara'ka subhouse LA

Postby Catriana on Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:50 am

I do not believe the system is viable for these reasons.

1) We would have to pull from our numbers to ensure that our former enemies-turned-clan members behave. If it is a waste of resources with no real boon, it is a waste of time.

2) We cannot predict every enemy we demolish and absorb will remain faithful. In addition, we do not know if those particular subhouses would band together for an equal purpose: Get rid of the ones who destroyed their clan. To set ourselves up for that is foolish and not worth the minor benefit that it would bring (which is nothing, IMO).

3) The political headache these NPC's would bring should they decide to be difficult concerning clan matters is nonsensical since it is something we can easily avoid by not doing it in the first place. Subhouses have a say in the ongoings of the clan, do you really want your former enemies trying to tell you what they think is best for the clan? I don't. I don't trust that they're looking out for our best interests, so why would I give them the power to interfere?

4) We would have to, once again, pull from our resources to ensure that the subhouses are adequately taken care of. This includes armor, clothing, lodging, food, all that comes from OUR stocks because they are not settlers, they are clan members. The gain/loss ratio is too uneven for us to believe we could make any sort of profit or benefit from this.

To me, there are way more cons than pros. If you want subhouses, look inward. Trying to absorb all of our fallen enemies into our clan does not make us benevolent or merciful; it makes us foolish.
“The most I can do for my friend is simply be his friend." -Henry David Thoreau
User avatar
Catriana
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 2947
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:04 am
Location: Washington

Re: Dvara'ka subhouse LA

Postby Xalgoz on Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:14 am

Subhouses don't have to strictly enemy clans, but they do have to be NPCs, one way or the other. Neutral, friendly, or enemy- they still would need to be absorbed. Subdividing PCs has no purpose at all, aside from entertainment value of letting people pick names and symbols for their houses. And yes they would have some say in our decision making, but they would also serve as additional backing so that we can have our own say where it truly matters, on the greater Chelian political stage. The more people, warriors, and money we have, the more power we have with the Great Clans. Absolute freedom to decide internal matters doesn't count for much when you still get pushed around at every opportunity by the big boys.

Also for the record I don't think Rosana or the Dvaraka remnants are good candidates for a subhouse, I'm just endorsing the idea in general. I think we lost the chance to gain them as a subhouse when we didn't follow up on the possible opportunity to duel their Ilhar.
Xalgoz Kae'sora- Tei'kaliath Scout
Xalgoz
Demon
 
Posts: 632
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:58 am
Location: Ther'avare
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Dvara'ka subhouse LA

Postby minalia on Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:29 pm

Well next time we do go to war against another clan, we learned 2 important things, find the damn kids in orthobas and remove them from the school before they learn what happens when we whacked their mothers and destroyed their clan. Maybe the next clan we destroy we will give the survivors the small opportunity to join our clan as a sub house or become kirisu food.
A survivalist should not be a pessimist, he should always be positive, happy and enjoying life more than anyone else because he understands that each minute of peace we have is precious and unique, and he never takes it for granted.
User avatar
minalia
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 2753
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:45 pm
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Dvara'ka subhouse LA

Postby Xalgoz on Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:04 pm

We don't have kids in Ortho, so aside from hanging around outside with a white van and candy, I'm not sure there's an effective way to do that. :x
Xalgoz Kae'sora- Tei'kaliath Scout
Xalgoz
Demon
 
Posts: 632
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:58 am
Location: Ther'avare
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Dvara'ka subhouse LA

Postby Catriana on Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:28 pm

If a subhouse option was given, I do not think it would be an NPC system.

That's pretty much all I got to say.
“The most I can do for my friend is simply be his friend." -Henry David Thoreau
User avatar
Catriana
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 2947
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:04 am
Location: Washington

Re: Dvara'ka subhouse LA

Postby benuminister on Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:59 am

Judging from what happened with the faction stuff (whose goal was to determine who would be the subhouses of the clan) I think kern might move to a more NPC related subhouse system.
Tei'Kaliath: Biel (Bay-elle) Tel'mari, Forge Master and Novice at the Hammer Toss

EA process:
Friday: Post -> Saturday: Discuss and Edit -> Sunday: Final Draft


The Al'dun, more then just another family.
User avatar
benuminister
Vel'akar
 
Posts: 1322
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 2:31 am
Location: Ther'avare
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Dvara'ka subhouse LA

Postby Catriana on Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:49 am

benuminister wrote:Judging from what happened with the faction stuff (whose goal was to determine who would be the subhouses of the clan) I think kern might move to a more NPC related subhouse system.


No it wasn't. Kern specifically stated it was for baby making purposes in the future and that people had misunderstood what had been meant by 'faction'. That was the entire reason it was renamed 'families' (sans Faction drama BS that had been dumb beyond belief.)

And I've learned never to assume too much with Kern. He tends to surprise.
“The most I can do for my friend is simply be his friend." -Henry David Thoreau
User avatar
Catriana
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 2947
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:04 am
Location: Washington

Re: Dvara'ka subhouse LA

Postby Bamawing on Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:48 am

For the love of Sharess, think logically for a minute.

"I want to kill you!"
"OK, swear fealty to me and I'll welcome you into our clan. I'll even make you a leader! You get honor and power!"

So... are we going to do this every time we subdue someone who comes in and threatens An'jhali?
User avatar
Bamawing
Vel'akar
 
Posts: 2475
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:51 am
Location: Washington State
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Dvara'ka subhouse LA

Postby Taruna on Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:47 am

I don't want to play the bad girl here... .. . Okay, I love it!

Most probably, the girl will die in the LA. I talk about a 90% probability.
Taruna Tei'kaliath - Former Warmaster - 2nd Tir'ay Champ (Warr.)
Family
Nimaraidh
Because inside of everyone of us is a warrior
Whose courage is like a sword
But the biggest weapon is his heart
(Silbermond - Krieger des Lichts)
User avatar
Taruna
Vel'akar
 
Posts: 1975
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 2:42 am
Location: Goth Corner (Germany)
Clan: Tei'kaliath

Re: Dvara'ka subhouse LA

Postby Catriana on Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:54 am

Bamawing wrote:
So... are we going to do this every time we subdue someone who comes in and threatens An'jhali?


That was my concern as well, since folks were implying that if we crush someone we should turn them into a subhouse (because yeah, we're totally just going to go around starting clan wars. That'd be intelligent). The idea sounds absolutely insane to me because of the huge risks we would be taking trusting people who, essentially, hate us and want us to fail. "Make them swear fealty or die!" Well heck, if I can use this as an advantage to destroy you from the inside how about you tell me to jump so I can ask you "How high?". Easy pickings, the idiots.

Yeah it will never make sense to me.
“The most I can do for my friend is simply be his friend." -Henry David Thoreau
User avatar
Catriana
Dragon of the Nether
 
Posts: 2947
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:04 am
Location: Washington

Re: Dvara'ka subhouse LA

Postby Finish on Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:41 am

We don't do this with very one. Only with the cute ones. Let's just hope Kalki never comes to our fortress. ;) :D
User avatar
Finish
Merc on vacation
 
Posts: 3326
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:43 pm
Location: Germany
Clan: Kyorl'solenurn

PreviousNext

Return to Conference Hall

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron