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Values and Prices Paid

Postby Anza'ka Anzo on Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:55 am

Hey I want to share something with you all, Its something that I realized about the current deal we have with the Sharen. Someone may have brought this up before, I'm not sure tho because I've been on vacation.

We are trading resources for training. This is good but we need to be aware of what the values of what we are giving and receiving. For example: We gave 100 bars of iron to the Sharen for 400 Ada worth of training. But is that 100 bars of Iron worth 800 Ada or 200 Ada? Are we losing Ada, value and resources or are we really getting the best deal?

Training is important don't get me wrong and I do think training is critical to our success and victory in this coming clan war. It will also be important when we split the loot and slaves with the Svarts.

By the way: I think the war with the Darvs has already started. Sorry guys but... after we offered a peaceful path to the Tollers and they said no and fought us; they declared war on us; In other words they started it. So, unless they approach us and offer a cease fire and begin negotiations of a peace treaty, we stay at war until WE win.
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Re: Values and Prices Paid

Postby Aeryll on Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:51 am

The last price we got on steel was less then 3 ada a bar I think. Can't find it at the moment. I've already asked in the scouts thread if Kitab can incorporate some appraisals of it the next time he gets searching in Chel city.

However, this training deal is the most lucrative for us. What we're bringing to the Sharen is not worth 400 ada of training. It is confirming to the broader public that we're bringing stuff to the Sharen however. So to them it's just a political move to let us do something public for them, which, in the end, might be far more profitable for them.
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Re: Values and Prices Paid

Postby minalia on Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:11 pm

-The 3 ada is per sword made of steel in the market in Chel but our sword does not compare to the high craftmanship seen in the markets but is the same quality as medium swords sold.

-the worth of steel bars is betwen 0.8 ada and 1 ada.
http://www.drowtales.com/~pathtopower/a ... p?sid=6048

-The current price the caravans merchants are willing to buy is 1 ada per steel bar.

-40 crystal ore=1 bag of fungus soap to cure the fungus leprosy, 5 units of antiseptics, 2 painkillers herbs and 10 block of soap.

-For 25 ada we were able to buy 15 rolls of white fabric + 15 rolls of black fabric and 8 bags of inferior grain.

-1 map of Chel is worth 10 ada.

-1 udu instrument is worth around 2-3 half ada per unit.

-Prices of gems are 12 ada in peace time and 15 ada and rising during war times.

-32 jewelry that we made by using 4 steel bars and 8 crystal ore made 150 half ada (15 ada).

-Construction of a merchant house is around 300 ada.

-soaps are sold 2 half ada.

-flutes are kinda useless in the current market since no one wants to buy them. *upset* but in peace times the flutes have a price identical to that of a roll of fabric.

-18 bags of salt have been sold for 11 ada. so 1 bag is worth 1.6 ada then we sold 6 bags but only goten 3.6 ada with 1 ada being taxed by them greenies freaks. :[ The price in salt seems to be fluctuacting.

-50 coal was sold for 40 ada meaning each coal unit is worth 0.8 ada

-Glass is 2 ada per unit.

-Leather is 0.5 ada per unit

-Scrap metal is 0.2 ada per unit

-25 slaves for 12 ada.

Still working on it..i still need to check the older pages.
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Re: Values and Prices Paid

Postby Aeryll on Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:02 pm

Love this list. Although it shows we're kinda erratic in whatever we sell. ^^;



Anyway..

ThingsI think we can sell.
Maps of Chel. Perhaps the crafters can accurately copy it a few times.
Jewelry seems to sell well and for more then the steel price. Although the crystal ore price is an unknown factor.
Coal ~seems~ to be nice enough and the miners will get to search for gems.
Salt is erratic and not worth that much, if we can get it labour free (by hiring outside help) would be nice.
Slaves are worth virtually nothing :@ As much as 2 and a half soap bar ^^;
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Re: Values and Prices Paid

Postby Frost Indri on Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:53 am

Well, I feel we can get a general idea, (and thank you so much for that summery) but prices are subject to Kern's mood, therefore not entirely predictable. This is just accurate in that the prices of goods fluctuate and are subjective to the mood of the market.
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Re: Values and Prices Paid

Postby Anza'ka Anzo on Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:44 am

I guess the Chel market is Kern then! XD

There are a lot of things that need to be done to maintain market awareness for our clan:

The scouts seem to have the jobs of job hunting and market research. This to me does not make much sense. Since what they should be focused on is making sure the clan is not blind to incoming enemies. The scouts can't be running around looking for jobs and asking questions about the market and prices. Even more so now that we are officially engaged in a clan war! :L

There is also the fact that the clan treasury seems to be erratic. Example: When we feel like it; we do a few odd jobs, get the Ada, spend it all and repeat. All it does is go up and down and up and down. This is not good money habits, but don't get me wrong I'm not saying we spend nothing and save up just to be greedy. I think our money efforts need to be focused on the clan's economic development and expansion. We keep a steady stream of Ada flowing in and a slightly lower Ada going out. So heres an example of what I mean: "Lets say that the clan makes only 200 Ada a day then we only spend 170 of that 200 Ada then we will have a surplus of 30 Ada for a rainy day or we invest that surplus in a economic expansion. This example is just being financially responsible and its a simple formula to getting the clan in a good position to make more Ada down the road.

Your questions, thoughts and comments please.
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Re: Values and Prices Paid

Postby minalia on Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:40 pm

The problem is we have nothing that we can invest in like real estate that could give back more money with interest. We have no bankers, no loansharks. We have zero administration skills in city planning. All we have is a supply master and she is far to busy harvesting food to feed the clan then to deal with merchants tasks. Everything that needs to be sold has to pass by the supply master and no one else.

We have tryed to make a merchant rank in the past and it has failed to pass numerous times.
This is why we can never have constant money influx because we don't have someone that is constantly looking for money jobs or selling spared clan ressources on each turn. And in the end Kern told to the ranks that the supply master was the one who has to do that job and no one else. :(

Ok enough ranting from me. This is a dead horse im just beating for the fun of it. XD
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Re: Values and Prices Paid

Postby Anza'ka Anzo on Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:46 pm

Thats a lot to do for the supply master to take of. Besides being a merchant is just one aspect of a economy. So the supply master is in charge of food gathering, growing food, clay, etc. Also buying the necessary items and tools to do other jobs and make money at the same time. With the scouts doing market research. Thats a lot.

BTW I think a better name for this potential rank is Treasurer. :D

Treasurer: The efforts made by the Treasurer are revolved around the clan's ability to make money at all times even when most of the clan's attention is not focused on making money. She/He also manages the money and makes sure that we maintain a reserve of money for a rainy day. The rest of the money is at the clan's disposal, spend it on training, a throne room, golems, tools, chemicals, workforce and building projects etc. But spend wisely!

The minions

Bargain hunters or Huntsmen: Their jobs are this 1) They are to subtly examine the prices, products, learn about the latest rumors and then try to get the facts. 2) Meet, deal with and forge friendships with merchants and traders that are the people who make the Ada. 3) and finally job hunting.

The bargain hunters would be unarmored, but have clan marks and armed with clan short swords. They should also be good runners or good on fast mounts.

For me the 2nd job of the bargain hunters is the most important at this time because we need to get those people involved in the development of the clan's economy. The reason we want good relationships with those people is that they have Ada to spend. So, we should see to it that they should spend it on us.

Merchants: This last group of people are to help with the building, maintaining and profiting of clan jobs, businesses, buildings, city planning, road building, and city cleanliness. They are also the people who provided a business idea and then built that business up for themselves. No matter what the profession is money can be made from it so, Merchants can be anyone.

In the far future:

1. Our clan would start up a large clan caravan that would roam around Chel and the surface world gathering items to sell to other clans or to keep for ourselves.

2. Build numerous roads that become clan trade routes and transform it into a network of money making.

3. Surface world outpost.

4. A safe fortress - this is were the money and other valuables is put into to be kept safe from theft.
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Re: Values and Prices Paid

Postby Madea on Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:40 pm

Again, the reason such a rank has been refused when it was previously proposed was because it doesn't fit into the way the EA works.

Normally a merchant/treasurer/accountant would act autonomously and be able to do all sorts of things with the numbers. But such a thing isn't possible here because we can't just have business running that give us stuff in the background, the system isn't set up for it.

The questions that need to be addressed when we propose a new rank are: Who can this rank share panels with, what can this rank do that other ranks can't, does it simplify or complicate things and how can the rank interact in the EA page.

We never got the Mana Specialist rank approved before because of what we wanted to do with it. With our most recent proposal, not only was there a need, but we answered all those questions: The Mana Spec rank will share panels with the warriors if they are not actively working with another rank, the mana specialist will become the goto rank for mana support, it simplifies things because it specializes in a task that formerly we were trying to spread across multiple ranks, and the rank will be a reactionary rank much like the warriors, scouts and healers are.

The current merchant/treasury proposal doesn't do any of these; everything done here can and is already done by other ranks.

The money doesn't need managing because there's no market to invest it in. It is literally a pile of money we use when we need stuff. We already have money for a rainy day; we have almost 200 monies for a rainy day. And if that number ever gets depleted, we go get more. The ranks already have to agree to allow people to spend money before we do it and, thus far, I don't think we've spent money poorly. Making a whole other rank doesn't matter because they'd *still* need approval from the other ranks to spend money.

Basically, every task you listed in this proposal is already being done by other ranks who have the manpower to do it. Making a new rank will require a shift in manpower which may or may not happen. I mean, seriously. Look at the list:

-Set up trade deals with other merchants/clans (Ambassador)
-Keep the city clean (Slavemaster)
-Structure and road building (Builders)
-Business (Supply Master - Side note, you will not be able to maintain a permanent business in the background, because that's not how the game works. Businesses need to be actively maintained in EA panels, like the Healer clinic)
-Bargain hunting (Scouts)

I mean, you literally described the scouts right here:
The bargain hunters would be unarmored, but have clan marks and armed with clan short swords. They should also be good runners or good on fast mounts.



If a clan wants to focus on making money, the ranks need to focus on making money. And, right now, we've got more important things to do. Once we take care of the threat, likely we will turn back to looking at how to make money.
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Re: Values and Prices Paid

Postby Tohya on Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:55 pm

Madea wrote:If a clan wants to focus on making money, the ranks need to focus on making money. And, right now, we've got more important things to do.


The other ranks being too busy to do the job, is also one of the criteria for creating a new rank.

A more important one would be having a stead source of items that need to be sold/bought. The Scout aren't being scouts if they go shopping every other turn, but this isn't a problem yet.
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Re: Values and Prices Paid

Postby Madea on Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:23 am

A fair point about the other ranks being unable to perform the duties effectively. :3
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Re: Values and Prices Paid

Postby Anza'ka Anzo on Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:33 am

And may I ask in what way has that happened? To me they seem to do a OK job. What ranks are not doing their jobs effectively?

By the way you gave me a good template to use for getting Kern to rethink this rank... I have some good ideas.
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Re: Values and Prices Paid

Postby Madea on Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:03 am

Nono, I mean, part of the criteria to make a new rank needs to be "it fills a critical role that the other ranks cannot do without sacrificing their own productivity". Not that the situation is like that, just that such is a requirement. That's all.
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Re: Values and Prices Paid

Postby blackshade10 on Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:06 am

Our current situation doesn't allow shopkeeping but this situation is temporary. We don't have long-term need for a merchant.
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Re: Values and Prices Paid

Postby minalia on Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:59 am

The only reason we would require a merchant type ranks would be someone who can haggle prices, negotiate a fair deal with people who got the mad skillz in business. Someone that can run a store but that spot is taking already by the supply master. So maybe that mechant would be useful in the background of the haversters panels and smiths if they sell stuff we can afford to sell to a buyer and crafters. That person could also worth with the ambassador panels when it comes to money since diplomacy and the almighty ADA do go hand to hand so very well.

Let's analyse the scouts. They are extremely busy in looking for jobs, mapping parts of chel (kinda stop doing that since we bought a map XD ), keeping a eye out for enemies/allys that come and go and assisting the warriors has archers and provide shield cover and playing bodyguard to our fair leader and do other guard duty as asked by other ranks that require their services.

The harvesters are busy getting food in each turn since our clan needs to eat and do not like the idea of starving, the salt ventures deal is a exemple of our supply master in gathering salt at the expense of getting food. It has not worked out well in the last few turns. :[ She has a restaurant to deal as well that gives our clan a major morale boost since good food is always appreciated. She needs to store the food as well­. Add that she and Brorn are busy making beer for the troops XD and soon disinfectant for the healers use. }:3

If we do bother in ever making a caravan with our soldiers and pack lizards or them big mounts the nals use to load their cargo.(they look so adorable *heehee*) Having a merchant of our own would require to learn all the knowledge in converting ada to other currencys on the world surface, learn the cultures of other species we could trade with and their languages since i don't think everyone on the surface speaks drow. It's basicaly a 1 person job only like the ambassador. But making a caravan and have it trade with other drow citys and the surface is something our clan can consider in maybe a year or 2..I just don't see how we could impliment something like that in the near future maybe in a 50-80 turns.


Basicaly this merchant rank will be needed eventualy but right now our clan is at war so maybe in a year it would nice to reconsider in making such a rank but for the moment..we got no need for such a rank.
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