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Re: Capitalizing on our Chel Exit

Postby Ein'keos on Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:15 am

Catriana wrote:Whoops, sorry guys, I didn't clarify. It's not just the Nals, but we were warned against blocking that area because I guess a bunch of major clans go through that way. My mistake XD


Sorry, but at whom was this comment directed? So far I haven't noticed anyone suggest blocking off the entrance. Is this about the idea of charging tolls on those using the exits? I assume that other clans accomplish that by simply having warriors approach travelers entering their lands and demanding the fees, not through the construction of any sort of wall. And as for why we were warned against building the wall, it has nothing to do with trade. They didn't say not to build the wall because many major clans pass through the exit - they don't. The issue is a political one. Our cavern is considered a part of the city of Chel'el'sussoloth. What the clans would object to is groups buillding walls that seperate large chunks of the city into different sections, as this would be the first step in splitting Chel up into independent city states and dissolving it as a single entity. Only the Kyorl have been able to do this so far and look at what'd occured as a result! They have indeed seceded. So not letting us build the wall was so to avoid setting a bad precedent for everyone else, not to protect any sort of individual interest.

AthenAltena wrote:I like Ein'keos' reasoning that if we keep our exit free we can possibly gain a lot of traffic from discontented Chelians. We might want to have someone (scouts, perhaps) observe the exits for a few days to get a sense of who goes through, or if we decide we want the traffic we could have them spread the word that we aren't charging tolls for our exit. If we do decide to go that route we might do well to put a small guard outpost there just in case we get any trouble there along with our stands.


The big tower we've already built can act as a guard outpost, we don't need to build anything new right now.
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Re: Capitalizing on our Chel Exit

Postby Catriana on Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:25 am

Ein'keos wrote:
Sorry, but at whom was this comment directed? So far I haven't noticed anyone suggest blocking off the entrance. Is this about the idea of charging tolls on those using the exits? I assume that other clans accomplish that by simply having warriors approach travelers entering their lands and demanding the fees, not through the construction of any sort of wall. And as for why we were warned against building the wall, it has nothing to do with trade. They didn't say not to build the wall because many major clans pass through the exit - they don't. The issue is a political one. Our cavern is considered a part of the city of Chel'el'sussoloth. What the clans would object to is groups buillding walls that seperate large chunks of the city into different sections, as this would be the first step in splitting Chel up into independent city states and dissolving it as a single entity. Only the Kyorl have been able to do this so far and look at what'd occured as a result! They have indeed seceded. So not letting us build the wall was so to avoid setting a bad precedent for everyone else, not to protect any sort of individual interest.

The big tower we've already built can act as a guard outpost, we don't need to build anything new right now.


The comment wasn't directed at you but at my miswording. Those who were confused about what I was talking about know who they are.

I didn't make any implications that anyone suggested blocking off the entrance.

As towards the rest of it, I don't really have much else to say. I had already corrected my miss tell so...yeah.
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Re: Capitalizing on our Chel Exit

Postby AthenAltena on Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:40 am

Ein'keos wrote:The big tower we've already built can act as a guard outpost, we don't need to build anything new right now.


I don't know how I missed considering the tower, it's only the biggest thing around for miles. *duh* I blame lack of sleep. :P

In that case we'd be pretty well set to take this on if we decide to go that route.
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Re: Capitalizing on our Chel Exit

Postby Ein'keos on Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:25 am

The comment wasn't directed at you but at my miswording. Those who were confused about what I was talking about know who they are.

I didn't make any implications that anyone suggested blocking off the entrance.

As towards the rest of it, I don't really have much else to say. I had already corrected my miss tell so...yeah.[/quote]

Thanks for the clarification, I hope I didn't come off as aggressive, that wasn't my intention, I was honestly not sure if I missed someone suggesting walls. Not to sound like Nasfors, but thank you for reading and contributing.
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Re: Capitalizing on our Chel Exit

Postby Wan'drille on Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:24 am

Good point with the tower, but I suggest we still promote direct trade in Ther. Even if it's dangerous to let strangers wonder in Ther, we already have the structures to welcome a few travelers (as the moon's end festival has proved). (however, if the traffic become important, I would agree on canalizing the traffic flow out of Ther, for security and tranquillity's sake)
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Re: Capitalizing on our Chel Exit

Postby Finish on Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:14 pm

Ein'keos wrote:
Finish wrote:
I would a good idea if there would be more people passing through our cavern than one single Nal caravane all one and a half months. ;)


A number of people have made this point, and I have to say, I think they're ignoring the possibilities opened up by the new information we acquired this turn. The scouts reported that conversation about how all of the exits had tolls levied on them was THE biggest topic of conversation they came upon, meaning alot of everyday people care about this issue. Were we to spread the word that our exit was free, it's a pretty safe bet more people would start passing through.


The question is why do people complaining about this? The most commoners doesn't seems to travel much. Even the runaway slaves we found in Ther didn't leave the cavern because the way to the next town would be deadly without preparations. You need caravans for Trading and other journeys - even the way to Char isn't safe, I assume.
So I think people are more upset because of the fear that the merchant caravans will now increase the prices of their goods because of the new taxes - not because they can't leave Chel for free and travel through the underworld.

Still I agree that we may use this to our advantage. If the traders learn that we don't demand tolls the will travel to our cavern and so we can do more buisness with them. :)

However before we build a "truck stop" we should do a few other things:

- Check if more traders travel through our cavern
- If yes, check if they want to make a stop in Ther after they coming back

And only if they make a stop in Ther, eat in the restaurant, visit our nurses and buy stuff we should think about a own trade post in front of Ther'Avar. Otherwise we would just waste time and resources
for a big empty complex. ;)
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Re: Capitalizing on our Chel Exit

Postby Bamawing on Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:41 pm

I have long advocated a resort-type business as income for the clan. Last stop before the underwilds/First sign of civilization. I am ALL FOR it - we have long-lasting algae cakes (toss some spices in to make them really good), long-lasting dried seafood, a health check-up for travelers, slaves and animals, and (hopefully soon) a nice bathhouse for relaxing. I would even love to see a tavern-inn type deal for merchants who want one more night in a bed before heading out into the wilderness.

I'm going to throw another idea out there... oh please oh please don't make this a bone of contention... but...

If we set something like this up, we might could have another ranked position open. There's been a lot of talk lately about ranked positions... which leads me to believe that people are interested in them. I don't believe in creating them just to be there, but... I think people want a new ranked position, and we may as well create one that will benefit us all.

I think there's plenty a Tavern Landlady/Landlord could do to keep busy and benefit the clan. This position would care for and expand the tavern/bathhouse and advertise our services. He/she would work with the overseers, the builders, the healers and the scouts (why not keep an open eye on the goings-on?). This would be a business venture, and as one, would generate ada for the clan (as opposed to a scholar, which was mentioned early on and basically rejected by Kern).

I really think this would work. And before anyone assumes anything, lemme give y'all one more detail: I am cheap. I am a freaking cheapy cheapo cheapskate that has no interest in paying $10 a month for something that I'm happy with for $5. So please don't think I'm thinking me for this.
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Re: Capitalizing on our Chel Exit

Postby AthenAltena on Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:47 pm

I'd be for some sort of tavern runner/land lord or lady position too if we manage to make it work too, and it could be a real good way to get ada for the clan and improve our reputation.
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Re: Capitalizing on our Chel Exit

Postby waffleferret on Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:37 am

we cant stop people from useing it but we could charge them a toll to just barge on our land during war time we could offer them 2 choice eather pay us to go through or let us escort u the long way aginst the wall off our cavren away from our fourt across the river to chel hows that :w
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Re: Capitalizing on our Chel Exit

Postby Finish on Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:42 pm

Well we already have a tavern Landlady she's called Katralya and owns the restaurant in Ther'Avar. ;)
I think she wouldn't be happy to hand over this place she created to another Ranked, especially since her harvesters deliever it with supplies.

Also I can't imagine what excatly a landlady/lord would do. She wouldn't build new taverns/hotels our expand something- because that's what the builders do.
She could of course plan further buildings but most of them time the Clan members or the architect decide what to build.
She don't run the tavern because that's what the supply master and her harvesters doing.
She could run the bathhouse one day if no-one else feels responsible. But I don't think we need a Rank just for that.

So it's hard for me to see the use of such a ranked position. Sound like he or she wouldn't do much after all. At least from my point of view. :)
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Re: Capitalizing on our Chel Exit

Postby Kitab Al'Ibar on Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:10 pm

The Landlord rank fulfills more or less the same purpose as the oft revived Merchant rank, which has been shot down several times as many of the functions either could be, or already are dealt with by other ranks - the situation is often bemoaned by some as not being ideal, but the rank is not necessary, instead of looking for ranks to fill jobs we already accomplish, look for ones to fulfill jobs we have the means of developing - not easy, but that is where explansion lies.

The scouts maintained a lookout at the front of Ther'avare for a long time before handing it over to the warriors after the tower was built, both as a first line of defense and to free ourselves up for exploration. Unfortunately, the warriors dropped the ball on it quite a while back - which potentially contributed to letting Jokerlady escape - so it's gone unattended and Madea has handed it back over to us.

I won't contest the point for the moment as there are enough scouts now to allow us to leave a group stationed there without stopping us from continuing to explore and whittle down our list of tasks, but it is not ideal. I'm not sure why we come to the fore of the mind as the best group to stand there giving tourist advice. ^^;

Back on to the topic though. I think instituting a toll immediately would be foolhardy, we have no scope by which to compare what an appropriate toll is and it would seem rude to the merchants who have visited, especially if no others come. In response to spreading word of our exit through Chel, again I feel it may be a bad idea to invite strangers into our homes whilst unknown enemies stalk the streets attacking us.

In the longer term, placing a toll and offering services has merit.
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Re: Capitalizing on our Chel Exit

Postby minalia on Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:29 pm

It would be a wise idea to wait 1 entire moon until the entire fortication lines have been built to establish any new building via the builders, but nothing prevents us from maybe aquiring buildings in chel legaly..or by finding a house filled with thugs and low lifes scum that may be a danger to the chel population wipe them out and take that house under our banner.
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Re: Capitalizing on our Chel Exit

Postby Ein'keos on Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:46 pm

minalia wrote:It would be a wise idea to wait 1 entire moon until the entire fortication lines have been built to establish any new building via the builders, but nothing prevents us from maybe aquiring buildings in chel legaly..or by finding a house filled with thugs and low lifes scum that may be a danger to the chel population wipe them out and take that house under our banner.


A decent idea minalia, you're going off topic. This is about the Chel exit, not building shops in town.
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Re: Capitalizing on our Chel Exit

Postby pen on Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:30 am

As Kel'noz states here, Sarghress use the no-tax-for-gate method.

I suggest the scouts do some mapping of the area beyond the gates leading out of our cavern, then we will know exactly what they lead to. We may even find something... interesting. }:3

If we wish to route traffic around Tear then a road may be a good idea. It will not only route traffic but also ensure that more people use the exit. ^^
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Re: Capitalizing on our Chel Exit

Postby Exate on Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:33 am

Regardless of our ultimate decision on what to do about the gate, I would advocate stationing someone to keep an eye on our cavern exit and take note of the people moving through it, effective immediately. With the clans tightening their hold on traffic, it's likely that we will see some increased level of travel through our gate over the coming weeks as people seek to avoid the tolls. But more than looking for specific changes, on general principles it's probably a good idea to be monitoring traffic so that we have more information to work with- not just for if we decide to charge a toll, but also because one never knows what interesting tidbits might pop up. Much of the time, when we have people travel into or through the city, we get new information on the city's mood and rumors; just having a couple people sit at the cavern entrance and chat people up could potentially tell us a lot on a fairly consistent basis.

On the toll thing: Upon reflection, the reason that the great clans can charge a toll of anyone passing through their gates is ultimately because if someone refuses to pay, the great clans can forcibly stop them and/or kill them for their impudence. Until we're able and willing to meet that standard for the vast majority of those who would wish to pass, it would probably be a bad idea to even try.
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