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Vacated Ranked Positions: Public vote or succession allowed?

Postby Jaibyrd on Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:03 pm

A recent topic in the archive discussion thread came up that I thought would be best if moved here to continue to be debated and that topic is:

When a ranked member steps down from his or her position, should the position come open for a public vote or should the former ranked be allowed to choose their successor?

However, before I open it up for people to discuss, I'd like to make a point for understanding if I may:

  • No one is saying that any of the current ranked should step down.

Okies, let the discussion continue!
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Re: Vacated Ranked Positions: Public vote or succession allowed?

Postby benuminister on Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:07 pm

Well as I said when Bel started thoughts of leaving her position, I would rather we have a democratic way of electing their successor. This will take us from being more of an Oligarchy to a Constitutional Monarchy in truth. Plus it would end the debate of whether or not a choice was fair and made in the interest of the whole of the clan rather then a person selecting of their favourites.
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Re: Vacated Ranked Positions: Public vote or succession allowed?

Postby Kitab Al'Ibar on Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:46 pm

There are several aspects to this question. It my opinion the ranked should be able to nominate the person they think would be best able to succeed them as the ranked member should be paying attention to those beneath them and be aware of the capibilities. In most cases, this will be the SiC as the ranked would have picked a person who is trustworthy, contactable and active - in their eyes.

The ranked might not always choose the SiC, but if they did, they would likely open it to the community as Pariel did when he stepped down.

Of course, there are times when the community could disagree with the ranked member, that is the right of the community, then a thread should be made here with a vote of whether it should be contested or not. As with Bel handing charge to Xenon, many supported the choice. If the choice in contested, then people should step up and put forward their manifesto for being chosen.

This hinges on the ranked member giving some time notice as several rank changes in short order has to be communicated to Kern due to the ending of ranked member subscription for the ranked member and reopening for the Ranks recommended person and then change again if somebody else was demanded by the forums. I'm sure it would get mentioned in the comic.

Whatever happens, it would have to be arranged and organised on the forums with a minimum of fuss.
Last edited by Kitab Al'Ibar on Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Vacated Ranked Positions: Public vote or succession allowed?

Postby waffleferret on Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:59 pm

I believe that thier should be a succession only if at lest 50 percent are ok with it anything less then that calls for a new vote nuff said.
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Re: Vacated Ranked Positions: Public vote or succession allowed?

Postby benuminister on Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:27 pm

So what you're saying tama is a vote on a vote?
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Re: Vacated Ranked Positions: Public vote or succession allowed?

Postby waffleferret on Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:31 pm

benuminister wrote:So what you're saying tama is a vote on a vote?

pretty much if a arge amount of people are upset about it or someone personaly challanges it
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Re: Vacated Ranked Positions: Public vote or succession allowed?

Postby Cayen on Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:26 pm

I think succession is fine so long as a majority people agree to who is being put in charge. This is just my 2 cents. In this case I don't think anyone had a problem with Bel naming Xenon.
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Re: Vacated Ranked Positions: Public vote or succession allowed?

Postby AthenAltena on Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:47 pm

I'm of two minds about this, on the one hand I think the ranked who might be stepping down has a better idea of what the position requires and therefore has insight into who might succeed them best, but I also see the arguments for doing it by votes. I'm really not sure about the best way to do it, to be quite honest. ^^;
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Re: Vacated Ranked Positions: Public vote or succession allowed?

Postby Exate on Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:17 pm

Cayen wrote:I think succession is fine so long as a majority people agree to who is being put in charge.
We rarely, if ever, get an actual majority in Path to Power on anything. The ranked are elected by mere plurality. Given that general lower standard, it's significantly more likely that whoever the ranked individual designates as their successor will take the position, merely because they're likely to give them a certain number of votes based upon whatever goodwill they've got left when leaving their position, which any other contestant would have to gather enough supporters to overcome.
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Re: Vacated Ranked Positions: Public vote or succession allowed?

Postby waffleferret on Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:14 pm

Exate wrote:
Cayen wrote:I think succession is fine so long as a majority people agree to who is being put in charge.
We rarely, if ever, get an actual majority in Path to Power on anything. The ranked are elected by mere plurality. Given that general lower standard, it's significantly more likely that whoever the ranked individual designates as their successor will take the position, merely because they're likely to give them a certain number of votes based upon whatever goodwill they've got left when leaving their position, which any other contestant would have to gather enough supporters to overcome.

over 50 is a majority , when xenon got voted no one in particular stood up and said they wanted it or posted an advice challangeing xenon to it , if they did then thier probly would have been an election over fifty is ood enough if someone trully sucks at thier job then at lest 50 will oppose
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Re: Vacated Ranked Positions: Public vote or succession allowed?

Postby Aeryll on Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:01 pm

I'm thinking succession is fine.

The process I'd prefer would be something like this:

Ranked member announces stepping down.

Now we go behind the screen.
- Optional: The ranked member appoints the intended successor which has his/her vote of confidence.
- People can step forward to take the spot, which adds interested parties to the list of possibilities.
- People vote. Most votes win.

Ranked member announces the voted successor and hands over the torch. <- only thing that should appear in the manga if you ask me.

What makes it simple is that if someone disagrees with the intended successor they can step forward and try to get the votes.
In general I'd think that a vote of confidence of the ranked that's stepping down is more then enough to let the intended successor win.
But things always happen and if a different person gets all the votes then that's a clear matter too.
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Re: Vacated Ranked Positions: Public vote or succession allowed?

Postby Kir'ima on Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:25 pm

Speaking as a ranked member, I think the following needs to be kept in mind:

Kern told Brorn (Pariel) he could designate a successor, or throw the position open if he had no preference.
Kern told Ros'ij (Thorn) she could designate a successor, which she did.
Kern told Bel'xullyn she could designate a successor, which she did.

I cannot remember if it was Kern or Madea who told me, but a long time ago I was told that successions/promotions were to be handled in this manner, and in fact that is how it has been handled by Kern in every case so far, except when the departing ranked member (Quel) was not able or willing to designate a successor, in which case it was opened to a vote. So yes, there does seem to be a game mechanic for it.

If there are issues with a sitting ranked member, you can post a vote of no confidence. That has been said as well. You may win or you may lose (*points at recent drama*), but that is also a game mechanic.
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Re: Vacated Ranked Positions: Public vote or succession allowed?

Postby waffleferret on Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:27 am

Aeryll wrote:I'm thinking succession is fine.

The process I'd prefer would be something like this:

Ranked member announces stepping down.

Now we go behind the screen.
- Optional: The ranked member appoints the intended successor which has his/her vote of confidence.
- People can step forward to take the spot, which adds interested parties to the list of possibilities.
- People vote. Most votes win.

Ranked member announces the voted successor and hands over the torch. <- only thing that should appear in the manga if you ask me.

What makes it simple is that if someone disagrees with the intended successor they can step forward and try to get the votes.
In general I'd think that a vote of confidence of the ranked that's stepping down is more then enough to let the intended successor win.
But things always happen and if a different person gets all the votes then that's a clear matter too.

I like how you put it Areyll :w thats basicy what happens most of the time and like it that way im sure if thier was a big fuss about who picked who kern would allow us to vote anyways but sence the last people where all nice , and good at the posiotion thiers notheing to worry about like kir'ma said
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Re: Vacated Ranked Positions: Public vote or succession allowed?

Postby Novusod on Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:29 am

I think the succession of ranked when they step down and ranked power in general should be more democratic than it currently is right now. The ranked offices come across as mini dictatorships within the clan where the little guy has no say. The way players are trying to get a foot in the door is through jostling over the Second in Command positions and resorting to hidden factions. Last week the clan just went through a virtual "Coup D'etat" power grab. That is the kind of stuff that happens in badly run tin pot dictatorships. I would like to see more Democratic reform in the ranked. No second in commands no playing favorites. Actions are posted in the thread ahead of time for discussion and adjusted as needed based on feed back. When it comes time for a ranked to leave office there is a full vote involving the whole clan every time no exceptions.

Kern and the GMs may want to run the game as a Monarchy but with no democratic outlet the clan just turns into a pressure cooker until it explodes. If the Tei'kaliath were a real life country and not a controlled internet game you would be hearing the rattle of AK47s right about now. This maybe a fictional environment and a "game" but people are still people and when there is pressure and feeling get hurt the reaction is fairly predictable. I urge democratic reforms before the game turns in one giant rage fest.
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Re: Vacated Ranked Positions: Public vote or succession allowed?

Postby waffleferret on Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:37 am

Novusod wrote:I think the succession of ranked when they step down and ranked power in general should be more democratic than it currently is right now. The ranked offices come across as mini dictatorships within the clan where the little guy has no say. The way players are trying to get a foot in the door is through jostling over the Second in Command positions and resorting to hidden factions. Last week the clan just went through a virtual "Coup D'etat" power grab. That is the kind of stuff that happens in badly run tin pot dictatorships. I would like to see more Democratic reform in the ranked. No second in commands no playing favorites. Actions are posted in the thread ahead of time for discussion and adjusted as needed based on feed back. When it comes time for a ranked to leave office there is a full vote involving the whole clan every time no exceptions.

Kern and the GMs may want to run the game as a Monarchy but with no democratic outlet the clan just turns into a pressure cooker until it explodes. If the Tei'kaliath were a real life country and not a controlled internet game you would be hearing the rattle of AK47s right about now. This maybe a fictional environment and a "game" but people are still people and when there is pressure and feeling get hurt the reaction is fairly predictable. I urge democratic reforms before the game turns in one giant rage fest.


I like it the way it is if thiers a problem and someone wants the job they can campain for it fair enough .
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