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Re: Steel delivery

Postby waffleferret on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:37 pm

Nasfors wrote:Thank you for the run-on, waffle. :P

That is a point I did not address; imagine for a minute that you are buying a couch in r/l. It is not assumed that they will deliver for free. They either offer that as an incentive, or you pay them for the delivery. I see no reason why we cannot clarify this point with the Sharen. I don't honestly know if they will slap us by assuming free delivery or not; this is why I tried to push Bel do go along with Mari'ciel this past turn. She could have asked this, in her action. In retrospect, Mari'ciel could also have inquired, but I failed to ask her to do so.

you make a good point prehaphs we will just have to make sure the thugs are to scared to get near us agin }:3
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Aeryll on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:43 pm

Nasfors wrote:So do you object to even asking if they are willing?


I'm against asking for their help.

The advice Je'thel has put up is a good one. Send a scout to inform the Sharen that our head blacksmith with escort got ambushed on the way back to us, so they are aware they is trouble on the road. Then leave it up to the Sharen if the shipment matters enough to them to dedicate troops to. But basicly, do not ask or request for help.

Ehmm.. interesting enough point from waffle. (happened while I was typing)

I'd say, in for a penny, in for a pound. It's possible to just inform then that the delivery is ready for pickup. But it will still mean sending someone to them, and a squad as escort is not enough as pictured already. If we are going to send half our armed forces on this, then better all the way and make the delivery aswell.

But good third option.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Kitab Al'Ibar on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:47 pm

I can see the sense in asking the Sharen for aid, and in principle it is a good idea. However, I think it is an over reaction to seek aid so soon.

We've justified this to An'jhali as a business deal in comic and that we remain neutral. To ask the Sharen for aid does sends out the impression that we have sided with them.

An'jhali's own words were "We cannot let unknown enemies intimidate us" - By asking the Sharen for aid that is exactly what we are doing.

Mariciel was attacked because she was under-defended, we have no idea how many attackers they were, but they did less damage to us than the pair of Siksa'santi did during the Svart battle. Admittedly they could have been trying to send us a message, but equally, that could be the extent of their abilities. We don't know if we are over reacting. We can only know after more information is recieved.

I would prefer to try sending the delivery with a greater escort, at least 2 squads of warriors and a number of scouts to provide mana shields and suppression, either directly visible or tailing the shipment. If they are attacked again, then we may have a true estimation of their strength and be better able to make an appropriate decision.

If they best us, then we need help. If we can fend off the attack then we gain both information and respect, if we arrive at the Sharen door battered but intact then we prove both our commitment and worth, if we do not, then at least we tried instead of running for help at the first sign of difficulty.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Nasfors on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:51 pm

Thank you for the reply, Kitab. Well thought-out at always.

For me, this hinges on how many trips it will take. If we can take 100 bars in one trip, I have NO problem with us doing it alone.

But, if this will take us more than one trip, we are signing ourselves up for a textbook ambush. If we lose the golem and/or pack lizard, we will no longer possess -any- means to make future deliveries and might even default on our deal with the Sharen entirely.

I'm thinking militarily, here. Two trips per shipment is unacceptable to me, as it is nigh undefendable. If we can do it in one trip, using our own assets will have my blessing.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Kir'ima on Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:00 pm

We lack information, so this turn the scouts are trying to find out who attacked Mari and her escort. Depending on what we learn, it may affect the clan's thinking. If it is just a group of thugs/mercenaries or a minor clan, then more clan members may want to try and do it ourselves with a beefed-up escort. On the other hand, if it is Sarghress troops, we may decide that it is too big/risky to handle on our own, and ask the Sharen to make delivery a joint effort, like Nasfors proposes.

In any case, there are still a few turns before the delivery due date, so I think it is okay to take one turn to see what we can find out, and then make a decision. The worst case would be that we get no good information at all, but even then we would have only used one turn, and it will have let us talk about it for another week to see if we can't reach some consensus.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Nasfors on Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:07 pm

Kir'ima, I thank you for the kind reply, and the update from your section with relevance to my proposal.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Taruna on Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:49 pm

*sheds a tear of proudness* I support ya!
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Nasfors on Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:52 pm

Thanks, Taru.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby waffleferret on Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:27 pm

i will saport as well .... but i would have prefered if we just tell the sharen they can kiss our ass but Owell your plan sounds helther.
btw i have an ideal we should make you the war master :V *tamato/chilinea random joke *
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Thalar on Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:29 pm

It is in the Sharen's best interest that our shipment makes it safely to them. I like the initial proposal.
I also understand that it may not put us in a good light, but what light are we in at the moment? I'm not certain we have much of a reputation to lose, except for our own pride in ourselves.

If the Sharen provide the transport and guard it themselves, it is they who stand to lose something if it gets attacked. If we guard it ourselves we stand to lose a lot more than just pride.

Finding out who was behind this attack would help greatly, so I hope the search for information proves successful. I believe it would be a mistake to send the shipment to the Sharen as soon as possible. We should delay the delivery as much as we can, within the given amount of time, but also with consideration towards the training we want to get done at Orthorbbae. Filling the order too quickly could encourage the Sharen to ask for more, sooner, next time. Filling it later will mean that it takes longer before we can start training. Also, filling it too quickly will give them a good idea of our production capability. I don't think we should offer them that knowledge.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Nasfors on Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:37 pm

Thank you for the reply, Lady Healer. You've introduced some uncomfortable mixed feelings for me. I do not think we should wait a second longer on the training, but you make a valid argument on a future-contract standpoint. I'll honestly have to weigh the two for a while to come up with a solid opinion.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby thatguyvex on Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:13 pm

I'll agree with you that, if the event that we cannot transport the steel in one turn and it'll take multiple trips that asking the Sharen to pick up the shipments is more beneficial than keeping our pride. However if this can be done in one shipment, I'd like to see this be a task our Clan fulfills on its own. It may be my emotions talking here, but someone has challenged us, and it only feels right that we answer that challenge ourselves without outside assistance. Still, as others have said this will also boil down to exactly who it is that attacked us and any details we can find on them.

As for the delay, training is going to take a long time for the warriors as is, so quite frankly if it ends up encouraging the Sharen to ask for more steel...well I consider that a fair price for getting our people trained quicker. Besides, if they ask for more we can always negotiate for additional payment due to the higher demands.

In short; I support Sharen aid if we have to do multiple shipments or our mystery attacker turns out to be someone big league we can't logically have a shot at handling on our own. I support doing this ourselves if we can pull this off in one trip or our enemy is something we might be able to take down on our own.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Nasfors on Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:20 pm

Thanks for the read and reply, Kazdrin.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby kirio on Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:45 pm

This looks like a good proposal, Nasfors. And, it dovetails nicely with Je'thel's nicely practical vote option in the LA this week.
Je'thel wrote:We should consult the Sharen about shipment security and identify attackers


I especially like the idea of sending a squad or two of our warriors with the Sharen during delivery. Our own people participating in defense of the shipment (if that proves necessary) just plain feels right.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Nasfors on Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:45 pm

Thanks for reading, Ves.
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