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Steel delivery

Postby Nasfors on Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:40 pm

I've been commenting on this particular issue in various threads for a couple of weeks now, so I don't imagine this will be the first time you've heard it. I ask for your kind attention to my entire post nonetheless.

We're to provide the Sharen with metal. The sooner we make our first shipment, the sooner we get our 'full college scholarship.' However, as we are all no doubt aware, we've come under threat.

Here is how I propose to meet this threat. The Sharen asked for our production, and the expertise of our smiths. They made no mention of lacking logistical strength. By contrast, we have no logistical assets to speak of beyond that pack lizard, and they are probably aware of it. I think it is incumbent upon us to get them to use their vast resources (both as guards and as haulers) to transport the steel.

My reasons are as follows:
-They can move all 100 bars in one trip, while we likely cannot.
-One trip is infinitely less vulnerable than even two trips, and I am certain we'd need more than two.
-Their troops are both less likely to be attacked than ours due to the symbol of the Val'Sharess, and more capable of winning when ambushed than ours.

Now, I do advocate sending two of our squads along with every Sharen convoy; this ensures that they do not take the metal and claim it was stolen. It is just good business sense, regardless of whether the Vels would do such a thing or not. Think of it as delivery confirmation. The phrase 'a lock keeps an honest man honest' comes to mind.

As early as Day 95 (not next turn, but the one after), the Scout, Ambassador, or Ill'har could visit the Sharen and propose this solution. This would mean we have more than enough time to get it implemented within our first delivery deadline. So I urge you, let's make our decision quickly.

To repeat this proposal in bullet points:
-Request that the Sharen jointly guard the movement of steel in cooperation with our warriors.
-Request that they provide the beast and vehicle assets to move the steel.

How You Can Help
Post your support of the Sharen transport option in this thread. Contact your Ranked member to voice your support, so that they are more likely to favor it in discussion with one another. Make your opinion heard!

What not to do to help
Do not post this in the LA. Do not start a flamewar (it really isn't necessary for this issue). Do not spam about the issue; one post in your section thread, one PM to your ranking leader, and one post in this thread will be plenty.

Thank you for your kind attention.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Thaluka2 on Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:59 pm

I approve of asking the Sharen to take it themselves. I don't think it's necessary to send guards *with* them as they're only paying us in a favor that costs them nothing, rather than actual ada. There's very little incentive for them to pretend to be attacked and lose the steel.

If they're not down with taking the steel themselves we do have a logistical issue to work out though.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Nasfors on Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:06 pm

Thank you for the reply, Thaluka.

As for your concern, that is in my plan for two reasons; first, like I said, it is good business sense on our part. Their little likelihood evaporates entirely if we send the joint guard force. Second, a segment of the community identified accurately that it is easier, and thus less honorable in drow terms, if we back down from this challenge. Having some of our troops show the flag is a point of pride and honor.

edited to fix a typo
Last edited by Nasfors on Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Bamawing on Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:59 pm

Heh.

I dunno, we do have one perfectly good pack lizard. I honestly see zero problem with us carrying what we can, and asking them to help with the rest. That seems reasonable and beneficial for all parties, and not even the Sharen could protest if we're putting all our limited resources into it. We have a pack lizard and a squad, and they have 5 more pack lizards and more squads. Fine by me. Built-in delivery confirmation, yada yada yada.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Nasfors on Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:34 pm

Bamawing wrote:I dunno, we do have one perfectly good pack lizard. I honestly see zero problem with us carrying what we can, and asking them to help with the rest.
Yeah, there is no reason we can't do that too. Just ask them to supply enough support so that it takes only one trip. I like it.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Aeryll on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:03 pm

I actually disprove about asking the Sharen at all. Advocate of the devil perhaps :)

It will makes us look incompetent, because we accepted a deal and halfway to the end ask for help completing it. And worse, it might make us look weak, because we can't even guard our own assets. Neither something I'm particularly happy with.

If it takes multiple trips with three to four squads, so be it. We'd proof to the Sharen we're willing to commit ourselves, also we're proving to whoever made the attack we're not going to be easy to persuade by attacks and lastly, we're not not counting on the Sharen.

I agree with the practically of asking the Sharen help for the pickup, but I don't agree with the message that we'll be sending them along with it. If this happens in the future we'd have to arrange this as the deal is made, specially if the request for more steel comes, for now however, lets try this thing by ourselves.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Nasfors on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:07 pm

Thank you for your reply Aeryll. I would only try to persuade you by arguing that the security of our first shipment is of greater importance than we can afford to compromise based on concerns of how we are perceived by the Vel'Sharen.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Aeryll on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:14 pm

Aye, I'd argue exactly the other way around. The impression we leave on the Sharen is much more important then this delivery. Ofcourse, failing it also send a message, but they already know we're after access to Orthobea for training.

Heck, it might even be just a test of the Sharen, what will we do, the hard way, by ourselves, or the easy way, ask the Sharen.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Nasfors on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:16 pm

So do you object to even asking if they are willing?
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Ein'keos on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:17 pm

Nasfors, I don't think transporting it all in one shot will be a problem at all. The blacksmiths are constructing a large steel cart to be pulled by the spider golem that can handle all of it. I also really don't like the optics of our troops walking in formation with Sharens. That REALLY makes us look like Sharen lapdogs to other clans and weak to the Sharen themselves. I'm sure a large force of warriors and scouts would be able to handle guarding one shipment. What I'm saying is, even if they are willing, it wouldn't be con free.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Nasfors on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:22 pm

Thank you for your reply, Ein.

I am not confident that the spider golem can move that amount of material in the slightest. Remember that our large mining golem can only transport one unit of rock per load. While I am certain that a steel bar is far smaller than a unit of rock, what I know about the density of steel tells me that we'd need the equivalent of a modern 18-wheeler to move this amount of steel; that amount of power is something the spider golem simply does not have.

That said, this is all speculation on my part. There is no reason why we cannot either ask Kern or test the power of the spider golem. Just do not be surprised if it can't pull the steel.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Sword Goddess on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:26 pm

I'll post my support for the action, it seems pretty logical; I would normally say we risk "looking weak" - but by sending our own soldiers as well, we're really turning it into a joint operation. So Kudos.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Nasfors on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:28 pm

Thank you for reading, SG.
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby waffleferret on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:29 pm

the way i see it s if the sharen want thier steel they can get it thier damn selfs we are not thier ally nor thier servents i really really want to stay on thier side but to ask us to go all the way to thier fortress like we are delevery boys os too much and they know it , we should tell them with all respect that we don't have the time or the equipment to get them something this heavy and valuable to them safely and seacurely at the rate which they want t if they want it thier faster they can come get it because we simply don't revolve around thier needs
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Re: Steel delivery

Postby Nasfors on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:34 pm

Thank you for the run-on, waffle. :P

That is a point I did not address; imagine for a minute that you are buying a couch in r/l. It is not assumed that they will deliver for free. They either offer that as an incentive, or you pay them for the delivery. I see no reason why we cannot clarify this point with the Sharen. I don't honestly know if they will slap us by assuming free delivery or not; this is why I tried to push Bel to go along with Mari'ciel this past turn. She could have asked this, in her action. In retrospect, Mari'ciel could also have inquired, but I failed to ask her to do so.
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