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Re: Leader Archive, Day 34, Early. Leaders talk

Postby kirio on Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:48 pm

Catriana wrote:
kirio wrote:Whether this is a fair deal or not we have no way of knowing at the moment. This could be a ruse to get An'jhali to send our warriors to their deaths. We need more information about this deal before anything is agreed to.


Where would be the profit in that? Or the point? If she wanted to be rid of us, she would have done so already by hiring enough manpower to take us on. It's nonsensical to go through an elaborate ruse just to kill off some warriors for a mine they don't even really want from a clan that hardly anyone knows or cares about. Even if they do want it, again, she could have just hired enough manpower to take it. Unless she's a sadistic psycho, her going out of her way to get us to fight for her just to kill us off doesn't make the least amount of sense. We're not even a recgonized clan in Chel. We have no steady resources or income. We're a threat to no clan. I could see her wanting to manipulate us (and manipulate us she has!), but send our warriors to their deaths and gain no real profit in return? That doesn't seem to be her game. That's not to say she would cry over it if some of our warriors did get injured or die, but I don't think she's trying to purposely kill them all off.

It really just seems like she's using us as a free resource to deal with a problem she doesn't want to hire people for. If we succeed, then she'll probably try to use us again, if not, she loses nothing in the deal. I don't think there's a dark, ulterior motive here.

Furthermore, we really, really don't have a choice unless we want to battle them instead. She wants our manpower or our money. We don't have the money, and we're not going into debt with them. That leaves us with one other option: Our skill. Specifically, our ability to 'kick ass'. If she wanted something else besides that, she would have mentioned it, I think.

I agree that we need more information, but in the end, will it matter? Let's say we don't like what she wants us to do. We can tell her no and back out of the deal, but now we're facing a situation where we could end up fighting her clan instead. She has the money to acquire enough manpower to overtake us, we have no contacts, funds, and we really cannot afford an all out war with any clan, no matter how small. We could try to give ourselves more options and see if she'll bite, but in the end, this clan holds the cards. We play their game or we fight them. That's the ultimate outcome.


I think it's less likely than more that she's trying to eliminate us; however, I'd rather play it safe and find out what this deal is all about. Accepting a job sight unseen doesn't strike me as an incredibly great idea.
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 34, Early. Leaders talk

Postby Jeriah on Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:49 pm

((In real negotiations, the back and forth cycles many times across the table, allowing either side many opportunities to reevaluate the pros and cons of each adjustment or counter offer. However, with PtP, the players are not given the same opportunity. We're only given 1, maybe 2, chances to decide on a counter offer and it's take it or leave it at that point. To incorporate more opportunities for counter offers or gathering more information about what certain options entail would extend a game day's worth of negotiations into several RL months. I, for one, do not want to micromanage and nitpick every detail to maximize the benefits at the cost of slowing the game down to a proverbial uphill low crawl through a tar pit.

Although the worst case scenario is that the TK faces an insurmountable force and gets annihilated, I have full confidence that the GM is not going to throw an obstacle that is impossible for the players to overcome. I'm not saying it'll be easy. If anything, it should be challenging. However, risks run their rewards and challenges are entertaining, are they not?))
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 34, Early. Leaders talk

Postby horusre on Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:11 pm

Finish wrote:I'm not saying we should aim for a fantasy best case senario. Sure we may don't like the agenda of a Clan, but honestly that's not the problem.


((Wasn't taking any direct issue with ya Finish. ^^ Your post was just the one that preceded my own, and was one (of many) that takes the counterpoint of my position (at part or in full).

Please don't think I was arguing point. I was only making a statement, and a slightly (commonly) vague one at that. I can see your point and I don't disagree with it, I just don't hold to the same sense of caution that others feel is warranted.

But one has to admit that often times there is a sense of aiming for the fantastical "best possible outcome" within the TK general populace. ;) I tend to set my sights a fair sight lower. *chuckles* Expecting "less than spectacular results" means I'm seldom disappointed by the delivery. And I have SO much more to be disappointed by.))

If they worhsip the great Tiktikki godess, runing around naked all the day and sacrifice people - that ok. We still can be friends and perhaps establish a good alliance(like selling them Tiktikkis).
But if they sacrifices our people to the Tiktikki godess I would rather stay away from them.


((Hell, sign me up for that cult! I'll even join with the human/drow sacrifices left in place. Can't be much worse than being a Moonie. Well, maybe if it was the Drow-Peoples Temple. *ponders* But ya never know, maybe the Heaven's Gate really DID hop on board a flying saucer. ^^; Raeth can jump on the tail of the great Tiktiki Goddess and ride that Deity all the way to the Banks of Nirvana, post-humorously of course.

Double the fun, chances are the cult would leave his body behind, wrapped up in a yellow sarong, and the TK would have to determine what to do with the corpse. *evil grin* With any luck he'd start to stink and force the issue.

Just my luck though, all the Banks of Nirvana would be closed for some existential holiday on the astral plane, and then I wouldn't be able to cash my check until the next astral monday. ^^; ))
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 34, Early. Leaders talk

Postby Bamawing on Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:14 pm

horusre wrote:[ But ya never know, maybe the Heaven's Gate really DID hop on board a flying saucer. ^^; Raeth can jump on the tail of the great Tiktiki Goddess and ride that Deity all the way to the Banks of Nirvana, post-humorously of course.

Double the fun, chances are the cult would leave his body behind, wrapped up in a yellow sarong, and the TK would have to determine what to do with the corpse. *evil grin* With any luck he'd start to stink and force the issue.

Just my luck though, all the Banks of Nirvana would be closed for some existential holiday on the astral plane, and then I wouldn't be able to cash my check until the next astral monday. ^^; ))


I made the mistake of reading this during dinner, and now I have spaghetti sauce in my sinuses. Between that and the frostbitten colon comment, you have become my new hero.

(All I can see is an image of chibi Quel in a little chibi heap, with crossed out eyes and stink lines radiating...)
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 34, Early. Leaders talk

Postby Jeriah on Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:38 pm

((We had the warriors explore the Svartelos complex this EA. Picanet, was that the EA submission you PMed to Kern or was it someone else's?))
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 34, Early. Leaders talk

Postby FSEffect on Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:52 pm

o_O
I'm not sure why we had warriors gather intel, we're not the type for sneaking.
Distrust can only come from this. ^^;
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 34, Early. Leaders talk

Postby Lordof??? on Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:00 am

Just use our rustic ways to excuse ourselves for becoming enthralled at such a beautiful palace.

Acting simple and easily awed can help us pass off many strange behaviours.
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 34, Early. Leaders talk

Postby Jeriah on Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:02 am

((Except that by the time the warriors can submit their next EA, it'll be too late to specify that now.))
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 34, Early. Leaders talk

Postby Picanet on Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:04 am

Jeriah wrote:((We had the warriors explore the Svartelos complex this EA. Picanet, was that the EA submission you PMed to Kern or was it someone else's?))


The action we wrote did not include sneaking - we had written for them to observe their surroundings - not to go looking >.<
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Re: EVent Archive, Day 34 Late

Postby Idunyken on Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:03 am

Well at least we know they HAVE guards...in heavy armour *ooo* is it just me or does that stuff look similar to beldrobbaen armour?
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 34, Early. Leaders talk

Postby Kir'ima on Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:42 am

Picanet wrote:
Jeriah wrote:((We had the warriors explore the Svartelos complex this EA. Picanet, was that the EA submission you PMed to Kern or was it someone else's?))

The action we wrote did not include sneaking - we had written for them to observe their surroundings - not to go looking >.<

In light of that, seeing the scouts leave the lookout and go to western Chel to chat seems almost... warm and fuzzy. ^^;
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Re: EVent Archive, Day 34 Late

Postby Madea on Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:13 am

I think it's fine; the action was based on the assumption that they weren't restricted to a guest hall. Now that we know they are, we'll be more careful with future actions.

If they hadn't left the hall, the action would have been a blank panel, and we learned several important bits of information. It's a successful action, even if we alarmed the Svartelos a little. :3
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Re: EVent Archive, Day 34 Late

Postby Jeriah on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:33 am

((Personally, I feel that a blank panel would have been better. A blank panel doesn't make an attempt to sabotage or stress relations when most of the Clan is trying to establish a friendly alliance. Do I think it will detrimentally affect things in a significant manner in and of itself? Probably not. However, it doesn't help the TK either. If anything, it hurts them a little.

Currently, I'm working off the assumption that the notice at the top of the EA is geared towards the warriors and that the EA submission didn't go through. Thus, the result is a pseudo-punishment for not being in control of the warriors and not a result of the action submitted. If that's the case, then the warriors get my sympathy. However, if the action did go through and resulted in a detrimental result while the person responsible for it shows no remorse, I might question their position.))
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Re: EVent Archive, Day 34 Late

Postby Madea on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:59 am

Of course you do. I do, too, but - unfortunately - it was not meant to be.

The notice at the top of this page was a direct result of last weeks action, where the original action submitted was from Tali, focusing on the garrison remaining at Ther'avare to give them some love. I was told that it was not allowed, and that the group that gets shown is the group with the ranked member at all times and further told that a notice would be coming in the following page.

Ergo, if Shiir had stayed at Ther'avare, I would have been able to control the garrison and train while I would have no control over the group that had left. But because the diplomatic mission is important, he probably would have mandated via An'jhali that Shiir go anyways.

This weeks action was a misinterpretation; we said to be observant and look for tactically-relevant information in case there is a need for a quick escape or future combat on their turf.

Since there's not a whole lot we can do about the page now that it's up, might as well focus on the positive aspects attained. So, lesson learned and we'll move on.

Cheers!
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Re: EVent Archive, Day 34 Late

Postby Jeriah on Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:21 am

((I have no problems with looking at the positive side of things, but I'm not the type to let the positive side be the proverbial rug to sweep the negative things under. I know that we'll move on, but my question is whether the lesson was actually learned or not. From my perspective, I see a blame shift versus responsibility taken. Where I come from, owning up to one's mistakes or the mistakes that result from one's actions acknowledges that the 'lesson was learned'. Blame shifting and carrying on tends to indicate that the lesson wasn't really learned, but they want to move onto something else before someone pegs them. They'll be prone to making the same mistake in the future and blame shift again, if and once it occurs. But perhaps that's just my skewed perspective.))
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