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Re: LA Day 31 Late: the paper is cryptic.. too cryptic

Postby FSEffect on Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:54 pm

Kir'ima wrote:Also, on the subject of whether or not to send An'jhali, when testing the waters one generally sticks in a big toe first, not the head.


Unless you're Bear Grylls XD

Anyway I reckon the following as security detail-

5 warriors overt- meatshields, make sure An'jahli gets away when in trouble
2/3 scouts covert- recce, support warriors and get An'jahli out if necessary
2 healers covert- "retainers" may need them if shit hits fan so as to move any wounded particularly if it's the principle

I do suggest bodyguard training, even two days is better than nothing.
"Train hard. Fight easy." as the motto goes
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Re: LA Day 31 Late: the paper is cryptic.. too cryptic

Postby kirio on Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:39 pm

Kir'ima wrote:
Rulishia wrote:Honestly though, if you aren't convinced there is enough evidence in the "They're out to get us side."
There is equally not enough, if not less, information on the: "They are not out to get us side."

Rulishia is saying that if you pooh-pooh the other argument for lack of evidence, then what about your own argument which is just as much if not more lacking in proof, especially since it has been shown that there are a number of incongruent points which have not been refuted sufficiently. In a case like this, is it not more prudent to err on the side of caution?


Hokay,
There is plenty of evidence that we are being dealt with as honestly and peacefully as can be expected in the situation as I have outlined in several of my posts. We do know that this mine was recently closed from the miner slave and he has also told us that Svartelos was working it. The asking price is very high but that is to be expected in the opening bid of a bargain. Dickering the price down is expected so the initial offer will naturally be inflated. The gabby miner he brought with him who let slip how worthless the mine really is didn't get reprimanded for shooting his mouth off which shows that if they are intending to swindle us they aren't very good at it. More likely it's a sign that they will deal in a fairly straightforward way and our main concern will be to avoid agreeing to something that will hurt us later. The two who ended up sold into slavery may have gotten themselves into trouble. They both indicated that they were snared over time rather than tricked in a quick con. Their tale urges caution but not enough to overwhelm the positive signs that are evident. Don't forget that a drow alone or a small family is vulnerable in a way we are not if push comes to shove.
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Re: LA Day 31 Late: the paper is cryptic.. too cryptic

Postby Jeriah on Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:10 pm

Writer wrote:Rulishia, last time the civilians helped the warriors there was no cohesion or control to it, no plan. Shiir did not account for their presence in his action, from what I've gathered, and the advice was generic 'join in the fighting to help'. And so in the muddle, we paid for it.

((If you recall, An'jhali and Shiir were not at the ruins when 'the six' advanced upon it. Meaning if the residents tried to help fight, it'd likely be the slaver event all over again as there'd be no cohesion nor control from Shiir since he was too far to validly use his EA to affect that.

kirio wrote:I can't say I'm real happy with An'jhali offering to just go without consulting with her ranked clan members first. That was a major concession given with no real gain for us.

She only acted in accordance with how we've influenced her. We're enjoying the fruits of our harvest, are we not?

kirio wrote:*upset* I thought she had had some training in diplomacy, but I guess she was sleeping during that lesson. ^^;

Apparently, she wasn't the only one, heh.

Finish wrote:If An'jahli has problems to lift a sword and to run in that armor, we have a urgent need to change that.

2 days won't be enough to realistically accustom her to her armor. This is a fantasy setting, but it isn't some shounen manga where the hero can train for 48 hours straight and come out 10 times stronger than before.

Bel'xullyn wrote:now i fell bad for being the one telling her to wear it.. :B
was it a bad idea that much ? :( i thought it could offer better protection .. *oops*

sure if you go deep in every little details.. yes it can be troublesome.. :S
so i decided to go along like a game .. wich is.. the stronger the better }:3
i don't want our dear An'jhali to be harmed :U

The greatest warrior is the one who doesn't have to fight. Meaning that stronger may be better, but only for the short term.

Pendragon wrote:Also, An'jhali looks really good in it. }:3 Which is why I think we should be thanking Bel'xullyn for suggesting she take the armor. XD

Can't say I care for the armor, but An'jhali looks good in anything, heh.

As for the cost of the mine, I don't think 900 ada is a lot. Putting it into RL terms, using the cloth the TK purchased from the traders as a baseline and using RL silk or cashmere rolls, 900 comes to approximately 60-90 thousand US. Which for a mine that produces iron and gems is pretty cheap. The land it's on sans the resources would probably sell for just as much. It just seems like a lot because the Clan doesn't have any money save a pocket full of change. Although with the wording they used, we're technically only buying usage rights, not the actual land itself.))
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Re: LA Day 31 Late: the paper is cryptic.. too cryptic

Postby horusre on Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:44 pm

((Wow... get some sleep, log back in and I have to back track several pages to find this. So apologies to all for having to backtrack quite so far.))

Bel'xullyn wrote:.... :c
now i fell bad for being the one telling her to wear it.. :B
was it a bad idea that much ? :( i thought it could offer better protection .. *oops*

sure if you go deep in every little details.. yes it can be troublesome.. :S
so i decided to go along like a game .. wich is.. the stronger the better }:3
i don't want our dear An'jhali to be harmed
:U


((I'm an opinionated jackass, so most of the time it's probably better to just ignore me. ;) Unless you appreciate my certain dry/wry sense of humor.

And yes, the way the armor was acquired does make me gag. But this is more due to a certain ethical fluidity I have long seen apparent within the clan, and I wont bore anyone by going into that again. Old wounds should stay healed. :P

I like the way An'jhali looks in the armor! *wee* I think I made that point perfectly clear, it being ornamental and all, so for that I thank you. I'm still on the fence about how important it is to wear in a situation such as this, so I'll refrain from taking an opinion when I'm not even sure how I feel on the matter - except that I like the "sexy amazon" look. heh

And I am sorry if the points I made offended or depressed you Bel, such was not the intent. *bows humbly* I just wanted this said openly. And please, if I make mention of it again, the origin of the armor, do not take it as a personal slight... for the armor is a little bit of a red herring, it is actually deeper motivating aspects that truly galls me. A certain subtle hypocrisy that has very little to do with the armor itself.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled debate, already in progress.))
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Re: LA Day 31 Late: the paper is cryptic.. too cryptic

Postby Meckruco on Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:10 pm

*error error error information overload error error error restarting system*

*boots back up*

wow.. that is a lot of stuff to go though.. someone just tell me what to vote for this time.
"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum" If you desire peace, prepare for war.
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Re: LA Day 31 Late: the paper is cryptic.. too cryptic

Postby Bel'xullyn on Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:18 pm

Send spies ! :D
I'm sure we'll find something interesting about them ! }:3
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Re: LA Day 31 Late: the paper is cryptic.. too cryptic

Postby Jeriah on Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:42 pm

((Although gathering information is rarely a bad idea, spies are typically frowned upon when discovered. Here's hoping they don't attempt anything overly invasive nor get caught.))
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Re: LA Day 31 Late: the paper is cryptic.. too cryptic

Postby PenDragon on Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:00 pm

:U I think I'll not add any more sticks to the fire.

However, I'm sure Ther'avare would survive even if more than half its Warriors were gone for a day or two. The pickup is in two days so I doubt the Svarts live longer than one day away, meaning the trip shouldn't take too long. In the meantime we just need to get ready.

Jeriah wrote:((Although gathering information is rarely a bad idea, spies are typically frowned upon when discovered. Here's hoping they don't attempt anything overly invasive nor get caught.))

Spies? Heh... That's always a matter of perception based on whose side they're on. XD

"Spy? Of course I'm not a spy! The enemy has spies. I'm a scout."
If something seems too good to be true, you're supposed to shoot it just in case.
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Re: LA Day 31 Late: the paper is cryptic.. too cryptic

Postby Kiro Kiemi on Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:40 am

The worst caution can do is deteriorate the other party's trust. The worst an attack we aren't prepared for can do is kill our Ilhar and her retinue.

An'jhali needs a guard if for nothing but a show of force. You don't send your leader out to even peace talks without a guard. One squad of warriors should be suitable: that's five well-trained fighters. I also think Shiir should go with them for advice and protection. We can fair for a day or two by ourselves at the ruins, right?

As for our "spies," I vote that they just scope things out: Svart's fortress, their guards, etc. - just to be prepared if they refuse to negotiate anywhere except there.

I saw someone suggest that we send healers - I'd not approve of that. Healers are useless if a fight breaks out. The only thing they'd be able to do is perform first aid. And they'd have to be protected. So, to healers, I say no.

A summation: Send a Shiir and a squad of warriors to accompany An'jhali to a neutral meeting ground. Send scouts out beforehand to scope out the Svart's home turf. As for the two days we have, how about we go over what An'jhali knows of diplomacy? She could probably use a bit of refreshing. :3
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Re: Event Archive Day 32

Postby FSEffect on Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:21 pm

War- Disadvantaged now. No intel on them (yet), and they have a fair amount of intel on us. Also waste resources on fighting an enemy, when we're still building up. Would need to hold this off.
Negotiate- Risky. They insist on having our Ilharr, therefore worst case scenario Ilharr dead. The best thing that could potentially happen is we get to stall for time (gather more intel, establish better defenses, though this is true for them too).
Tribute- Long term makes us look weak, whether that be diplomatic, or military. Short term no one gets hurt, and we get to keep the mine.

*sigh* I'll be voting for negotiations (and requesting a f***ton of arrows)

I reckon bossman should accompany Ilharr, and another 5-6 warriors go.
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Re: Event Archive Day 32

Postby Writer on Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:38 pm

I don't like either the tribute or the war option. We can't -pay- the tribute, which'll mean we'll be put in their debt, and they do not appear to be types we want to be indebted to. And war...Tch. It'd cost lives and be a drain on our resources when we should be building our strength. Perhaps we could take them on. But we know so extremely little about them, their capabilities, and enemies and allies. It just seems foolhardy. In addition, it would give our clan a distinctly warlike aspect.

Negotiations leaves us room to save dignity and lives, and could gain us some time, information and possibly a tenous acquaintance, but at the cost of risking our Ill'haress. Potentially pricy, but I'll probably pick that option.

Meh. It's a shame the economy lesson didn't go through. Knowing what an ada and the iron in our mine is worth would have been danged handy.
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Re: LA Day 32: War, Negotiate, or Tribute; we must choose one.

Postby FSEffect on Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:45 pm

Wait for our scouts... and pray they hit the jackpot in some gambling den XD.
Seriously I'd much rather wait for the intel to get back before we make any decisions, but it seems Kern wants us to do it ASAP.
Without that intel it'll be negotiate, and hope more bodyguard training pays off.
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Re: LA Day 32: War, Negotiate, or Tribute; we must choose one.

Postby Catriana on Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:48 pm

I just don't like this, either way you slice it. It's great that they appear peaceable enough, but I dislike the fact that they are giving us very, very, very few options as to what we can do for negoations. We cannot take things to a public location, we have to go to their clan and we have to have our Illhar personally go. It's either that or war? I don't like those terms. It's like a false kindness, it extends only as far as they'll allow us.

The Clan majority is the rule, however, I think that if we end up giving into their demands (for a mine that's supposedly worthless) when we already have little to no resources, no money, and are struggling to survive we're putting ourselves in a dangerous position to be manipulated. Besides, how are we going to pay 900 ada we don't own? I'm sure we could get the price down, for a potentially high interest rate until we could pay the full amount. :p

I'm not saying go to war, but if just any clan can show up saying they claim something (what's next, the ruins?) and we just give them what they want because we want to avoid conflict, we're not going to do well. I really, really, really think we need to do some solid, serious investigation about this clan before we just jump into this. It would really be disappointing to find out at after the fact what they were really all about.
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Re: LA Day 32: War, Negotiate, or Tribute; we must choose one.

Postby Bel'xullyn on Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:59 pm

we both said the same thing XD and look at my expression :P i look pissed *giggles*

Mais i was'nt really ;)

I think we should go on with the negotiations.. and since we both had our ideas aprooved.. *heehee*
i guess depending on the scouts report, it might change everybody's opinion.. :O
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Re: LA Day 32: War, Negotiate, or Tribute; we must choose one.

Postby Ihaveninjas on Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:03 pm

I sincerely doubt that there is anything we can negotiate the mine for: after all, without the mine we are paupers. I say we politely decline on their offer that we throw our own leader to the dogs, and instead defend the mine from any intrusion.
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