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Re: LA Day 31, Early: Situation at the mine

Postby Jeriah on Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:01 pm

kirio wrote:In addition to that little tidbit is the very good chance that Mr. Rose knows what this cavern looked like before we came. I doubt he would have invested in an abandoned mine next to a known bandit hideout without checking it out first. His current bodyguard would be a reasonable precaution against the kind of trouble the runaway slaves we kicked out of the ruins could cause. In a very short time we have done a lot of building. That says a lot about our organization and numbers, another warning sign that attacking us wouldn't be a great idea.

((Actually, we haven't done a whole lot of building. The first structure the builders made was the tik'tikki pen on Day 15: Mid (~12 turns since they were appointed). The next structure was the supply house on Day 18 (~6 turns after the Pen's completion). They then helped stabilize parts of the mine with pillars on Day 20 (~2 turns later). Carved the clan symbol Day 22: Late (~3 turns later). Culture pool on Day 25 (~3 turns later). Then renovated the conference room on Day 28 (~3 turns).

So the end result in actual 'buildings' in the ruins are the renovation of the conference room. We carved the clan symbol onto a tower as well. That is it. There are no buildings that have been made in the ruins. The biggest difference would probably have been the cleaning up of the ruins by the faceless compared to the little bit of work the builders have accomplished. Unless you want us to give Mr. Rose a tour of the Supplymaster's storage house, tik'tikki pen, and culture pool in hopes that will somehow impress him.

So with what little we've actually accomplished, I don't see how that's going to reasonably implicate that attacking us isn't a good idea. The only deterrence we have are 27 warriors and life is cheap in the underworld.))
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Re: LA Day 31, Early: Situation at the mine

Postby Talancir on Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:10 pm

right. 27 against their 10. negotiations would be in order.
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Re: LA Day 31, Early: Situation at the mine

Postby Berg on Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:20 pm

Talancir wrote:right. 27 against their 10. negotiations would be in order.


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Re: LA Day 31, Early: Situation at the mine

Postby Jeriah on Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:20 pm

((And you believe that those 10 represent their entire group? If that's the case, then you'd probably be right.

But before I go, you know, we send scouts before we send anyone else. I guess they're not following the same procedure though. Heh.))
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Re: LA Day 31, Early: Situation at the mine

Postby Catriana on Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:28 pm

Talancir wrote:right. 27 against their 10. negotiations would be in order.


Are you sure that's all they have? Mr. Rose said he had heard rumors, so he already knew folks had settled there (I wanna know where he heard the rumors from). He might have more than we can physically see. I think he might be prepared to deal with us.

Talancir wrote:That would be interesting but I think that's just a stretch... why would bandits come carrying a suitcase? and out of the group involved, two of them have no arms or armaments whatsoever. Moreover one of those individuals is carrying an obvious shovel.

I don't think we're supposed to make any further assumption, other than the renegade slaves we drove out were the 'bandits' the merchants were talking about


Why is it such a stretch? Now, I agree that it could have been the renegade slaves, but it seemed like they just wanted to be left alone as opposed to trying to rob the merchants and making themselves stand out in any way, but I don't think it states how long they've been there compared to how long the merchants had last passed that area. I would say that the slaves were probably not there that long in comparison to this group since now they've shown up saying the mine was theirs....which makes me believe that these could have been the bandits that were hiding out there. The real question is that if this is the case then why did they leave it for so long and why do they want it back now? Is it because the slaves didn't try to mess with the mine and we did?

Also, have you considered that the small group that Mr. Rose is with is small and armed that way for a reason? Like I said before, he said he had heard rumors, so that means that he could possibly be ready for anything we throw at him.
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Re: LA Day 31, Early: Situation at the mine

Postby kirio on Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:44 pm

Jeriah wrote:((Actually, we haven't done a whole lot of building. The first structure the builders made was the tik'tikki pen on Day 15: Mid (~12 turns since they were appointed). The next structure was the supply house on Day 18 (~6 turns after the Pen's completion). They then helped stabilize parts of the mine with pillars on Day 20 (~2 turns later). Carved the clan symbol Day 22: Late (~3 turns later). Culture pool on Day 25 (~3 turns later). Then renovated the conference room on Day 28 (~3 turns).

So the end result in actual 'buildings' in the ruins are the renovation of the conference room. We carved the clan symbol onto a tower as well. That is it. There are no buildings that have been made in the ruins. The biggest difference would probably have been the cleaning up of the ruins by the faceless compared to the little bit of work the builders have accomplished. Unless you want us to give Mr. Rose a tour of the Supplymaster's storage house, tik'tikki pen, and culture pool in hopes that will somehow impress him.

So with what little we've actually accomplished, I don't see how that's going to reasonably implicate that attacking us isn't a good idea. The only deterrence we have are 27 warriors and life is cheap in the underworld.))


It's a hell of a lot in barely a month. Don't forget the entire ruins have been cleaned. While the building repair has barely begun, the ruins no longer look like an abandoned ghost town with waste and detritus laying about. Take a moment also to think about how different the ruins look filled from end to end with mana lights. It makes a startling contrast to what they looked like when we first arrived and the only light shining from the ruins was the mana light of that gladiator slave who was afraid of the dark shining from one of the tower rooms.

As for whether Mr. Rose has come prepared to "deal" with us rather than deal with us. There is still the economics of armed conflict to be considered. If we were merely claim jumpers rather than a clan setting up for permanent residency, he would be right in assuming a small show of force would get us to abandon the mine and the guard he brought with him would be more than sufficient to do that job. That fact that we've established ourselves here make it much more likely (actually certain but he wouldn't know that) we will fight like cornered rats if he tries to force us from the mine. Unless he represents a major clan, he doesn't have the resources to spare to take the mine from us by force without critically weakening his clan's defenses.
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Re: LA Day 31, Early: Situation at the mine

Postby Hetros on Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:26 pm

I'm agreeing with Ves on this one. More over, we have no proof that they are actually owners of the mine, THEY could be the claim jumpers. We want documentation on that sucker before we do anything, that or a hell of a lot more proof that they're owners and can back up their claim. If push comes to shove, we can win by shear numbers.

But here's an idea... if they are just scraping by in the commoner's parts of the cities, without clan backing, they KNOW it's better to be in a clan or working for one. We need info, intermediaries, guys who can show us around. We compromise by giving them access to the mine (maybe they just want to trade with the guys on the other side? or search the inside). They can either A) pay a toll to get through and relic hunt if that's what they want. or B) give us info in exchange for being able to pass through (but only those guys).

Also, yall seen the latest moonless age XD that a random NPC? or one of ours?
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Re: LA Day 31, Early: Situation at the mine

Postby Jaibyrd on Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:33 pm

Hetros wrote:Also, yall seen the latest moonless age XD that a random NPC? or one of ours?


That's Meck man! XD Check back in the Char image and tattoo thread for more info on how he landed that honor.
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Re: LA Day 31, Early: Situation at the mine

Postby Hetros on Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:47 pm

oooooh, XD thought he looked familiar :D
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Re: LA Day 31, Early: Situation at the mine

Postby kirio on Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:32 am

New EA update.
It looks like these folks are playing dirty right from the get go. If it's at all possible, we need to take down those infiltrators immediately. I hope the scouts can get a warning back to the clan (and especially the warriors) in time to do something about these jokers before they have a chance to attack the clan.

I do NOT think An'jhali should go to them to talk. Hold them off and secure the cavern. If they continue to refuse to come to An'jhali to talk, drive them off.
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Re: LA Day 31, Early: Situation at the mine

Postby PenDragon on Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:00 am

I'm not surprised Mister Rose and his Merry Band of Fools rejected our offer of hospitality. Even though we have no hostile intentions (yet) only an idiot would step into the home of a potential enemy. I guess that means that we'll be doing the talking in front of the mine, though I don't know why we're even bothering. The mine isn't important enough for our immediate needs to risk a fight with, and I doubt they're willing to spend the ada needed to keep a garrison of soldiers around the mine just to keep us away.

Like Kirio said, An'jhali should not even step close to the mine as dangerous as things are right now. Let Mister Rose calm down and try to convince him to make a deal. It might help also if we didn't come across as confrontational by saying point-blank that the mine belongs to us (it DOES belong to us, but let's not tell them that 8P ).

We'll have to wait what he says in the LA archive first, though, before we can truly discuss what we should do next.
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Re: LA Day 31, Early: Situation at the mine

Postby kirio on Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:20 am

The mine is very much worth fighting and dying for. Without it we will not be able to complete the arming of our military. The iron ore alone is worth the fight. Throw in the crystals that we need for golem creation and we have an overwhelmingly important resource to defend. And, while we don't know Mr. Rose's side of the story what the slave told Khanzalika about his methods is worrying (I suspect loan default but it may have been failure to pay protection money). It appears that Mr. Rose (or his clan leader) may have hired Relentless to recapture our former miner and the other slaves that were occupying the ruins.

The timing of the 6 infiltrators is too suspicious to take any chances. We should assume they are under orders to flank us until proven otherwise.
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Re: LA Day 31, Early: Situation at the mine

Postby Finish on Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:29 am

That this people must be always that stubborn. I'm still looking forward to a peaceful solution but what the slave said and our scouts discovered seems to imply that Mr. Rose don't play fair.
However we have to wait until the Leader archive then we'll know more. Deepending on the way how he rejected our offer we can decide if he's just afraid our another stupid bully. Since the page stated that An'Jahli will arrive sooner or later, it would be good to put on the armor.

The six other warriors... hmmm could be someone totaly different or a rival of Mr. Rose. But that's not very likly. Probably his back-up troops. Either he brought that back-up with him as additional life insurance or he planned an attack from the begining. Hard to say. We'll still have to wait for the Leader archive but expect the worst.

At least that guy dosen't seems to have lot of influence. He's landlord, so perhaps he has Clan connections and some power in the streets of Chel since many commoners are dependent from his mercy. But he's still a small fish and this isn't his home ground. I guess we can compare him with the lady who owned the Black Dragon: If we kill him no Clan will miss him and a lot of people in Chel probably would dance on his grave. However that are just my assumptions.:)
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Re: LA Day 31, Early: Situation at the mine

Postby PenDragon on Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:44 am

kirio wrote:The mine is very much worth fighting and dying for. Without it we will not be able to complete the arming of our military. The iron ore alone is worth the fight. Throw in the crystals that we need for golem creation and we have an overwhelmingly important resource to defend.

Are you kidding me? I'll admit that the mine has it's uses, but it's barely worth fighting for, and certainly not worth having our Warriors DIE for. Most of our military is already armed, and that's good enough. Just because not every warrior has a sword and armor doesn't mean they can't be used, and we can probably use the metal we have left for producing other things besides weapons.

As for the golem creation, there has to be a practical use for that to be considered a real need. We've been getting along fine without golems up to this point, and the koa'naka can do most of the heavy labor that a golem can without the need for complex equipment. Golems will certainly be useful when we can build them, but again, it's not worth having Warriors fight and possibly die for.

I could care less about Mister Rose's methods or morals; one doesn't have to like someone to make a deal with them, and even a snake has its uses when properly controlled. If he's willing to let this end without bloodshed then that's fine. But if he's using those soldiers to sneak around and attack us, then it's obvious that this scenario will lead to boring, predictable, and seemingly-frequent violence.
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Re: LA Day 31, Early: Situation at the mine

Postby kirio on Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:02 am

Whatever he is I doubt very much he's another fool bully like Captain Clownface. His first statement to us was restrained and measured. I now suspect that he hired her and her not so merry band of thugs, so he may not be much better. His next move in the LA will give us some more info on that. If he's waiting for infiltrators to flank us he'll just feed us a line of BS to keep us occupied and buy them some more time.

Pendragon,
We cannot afford to lose access to that resource and MORE importantly we must retain absolute control over access to this cavern. As I said before, if he's willing to deal, it won't hurt us (and could likely be to our advantage) to give his miners access to the mine and let him be our broker to sell our excess product in Chel. If however he insists on his group controlling access to the mine or indeed claims exclusive use for his group, then there is little left to do but fight.

So far we've had:
one failed negotiation that collapsed into a fight (runaway slaves)
one fight that was essentially unavoidable (the slavers)]
and
one successful peaceful encounter with traders associated with a major clan (maybe a weak association but a clear one)

This encounter will involve fighting of some kind. That flanking move shows that pretty clearly. However, if we spank them soundly enough we may put ourselves in a good position to negotiate an, at least temporary, truce. We're still pretty weak militarily though, so I expect that barring some good luck this will end up like the slaver encounter.
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