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Re: Leader Archive - Day 29: Badai Fanclub & Naming the Ruins

Postby Madea on Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:11 pm

Jeriah wrote:((Similarly, YOU can't guarantee that training her is going to keep her out of harm's way. Thus far, every battlefield she's witnessed, she has not directly participated in. So if we give her a false sense of confidence in her abilities, it will increase the likelihood that the next suggestion to fight another party will lead to her actually joining the fray on her own rather than spectating.

People want her to be a military leader, she needs the training to do so. I might not be able to guarantee that it will help, but I'm still going to do it to increase her chances. *I* am not trying to stop anyone from doing anything other than challenge my intent to train her, nor am I trying to interfere with any other training for her.

A lucky break through the warrior's line and even if she received a couple months of combat training beforehand (52 consecutive warrior training sessions in ~1 year. If every other LA, then that's ~2 RL years), she'll still be nowhere near the point to being 'safe' as she'll be against an opponent who has likely trained for combat decades, perhaps even centuries, longer than her. If we go to the extreme and give her 10 years worth of training in game, that's 60 RL years at our current rate. Even if we speed up time by 10, that's still 6 years of having to watch her sweat to the oldies every turn. And opponents will still likely have more experience than her. So what's the point to this 'dedicated' training? She will always be a liability on the battlefield unless we skip a few decades in a montage.

It's not intended to 100% ensure her protection, and if you keep trying to play the extremes you're very quickly going to miss the point of pretty much everything I do. It's to increase her chances of not getting wasted like an utter noob. If she is completely untrained, she can show fear. Fear affects morale. Bad morale loses battles.

Saying that we can never ensure she'll be one-hundred percent protected in battle so we shouldn't bother is like saying we shouldn't bathe because we'll just get dirty again. It's faulty logic.

Even with all the training you can throw her way, it'll still come down to luck/Kern's whim on whether she's put into danger. The only difference is the degree of suspension of disbelief when the dough hits fan. However, whether a stray enemy unit picks her off while she watches from the sidelines or the enemy breaks through or flanks us while the Ill'haress is in the middle of battle, the outcome will still be the same. Thus, dedicated training is really just for flavor. And if we're going for flavor, I prefer variety so I'm going to encourage the other ranks have an equal opportunity to the spotlight. You may not care for the spotlight, but it's not the same for others.

You keep going back to that and if that's your argument, why are you even playing?

Everything we do in this game is flavor, and it's buying into that flavor and taking action in accordance with how our characters approach a situation that makes the game fun. You are not making the game fun, it's almost like you just keep saying "I don't know why you're playing, it's just a game"

Yes, we know it's a game. Are you going to offer productive suggestions or continue to point it out to us?

You want her to learn other stuff, great. Do so. Organize people and find someone to train and suggest it and work towards that, instead of trying to fight my attempts to train her. I'm not trying to make it a mutually exclusive deal, so why are you?

From that statement, I can deduce that you don't really dance. It has been said that those who master dance, master martial arts, but I suppose the average person wouldn't be able to make that connection. So I suppose Kern probably wouldn't either.))

Dancing is not my chosen physical activity, but I respect those that dance - especially those that dance well - very much; it does develop discipline and self-control and physical mastery. It does increase confidence and inner strength.

But it is not the same. While the two are closely linked in many respects, it is the spirit that separates the two. A dancer's spirit is not a warrior's spirit, just like dancing is not a fighting art. And while there are examples of both that have made the transition to the other, it is still not the same.
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Re: Leader Archive - Day 29: Badai Fanclub & Naming the Ruins

Postby Jeriah on Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:41 am

Madea wrote:People want her to be a military leader, she needs the training to do so. I might not be able to guarantee that it will help, but I'm still going to do it to increase her chances. *I* am not trying to stop anyone from doing anything other than challenge my intent to train her, nor am I trying to interfere with any other training for her.

((Being a military leader doesn't require knowledge of martial arts. And I would argue that people want her to be a leader, period. Military just comes with territory. And although you may not intend to interfere with other training, the fact remains that any LA option put to the vote will quickly siphon votes away from the other options, which does, indirectly, interfere with other ranks training An'jhali as people will prioritize martial arts over other pursuits due to reasoning, such as yours. So when Picanet or yourself put forth an LA vote to train the warriors, I have the feeling that the other ranks have been demoralized to the point where they won't want to compete with it.

Madea wrote:It's not intended to 100% ensure her protection, and if you keep trying to play the extremes you're very quickly going to miss the point of pretty much everything I do. It's to increase her chances of not getting wasted like an utter noob. If she is completely untrained, she can show fear. Fear affects morale. Bad morale loses battles.

That's okay. You miss many of my points, so at least we'll be on equal footing, heh. My point was that my guarantee to keep her off the battlefield and safe is about as strong, if not stronger, as yours to keeping her safe on the battlefield. Also, the extreme I used was that even if we fully dedicate her training to the militaristic arts, she'll always come up short. So even if we pull out all the stops and go all out military style training, it's not going to affect much, realistically. If that's the case, people may realize that there's no need to dedicate said training. Just keep it fair and spread 'the love'.

Madea wrote:Saying that we can never ensure she'll be one-hundred percent protected in battle so we shouldn't bother is like saying we shouldn't bathe because we'll just get dirty again. It's faulty logic.

That would be faulty logic, so it's good thing you're using a strawman argument there.

Madea wrote:You keep going back to that and if that's your argument, why are you even playing?
Everything we do in this game is flavor, and it's buying into that flavor and taking action in accordance with how our characters approach a situation that makes the game fun. You are not making the game fun, it's almost like you just keep saying "I don't know why you're playing, it's just a game"
Yes, we know it's a game. Are you going to offer productive suggestions or continue to point it out to us?
You want her to learn other stuff, great. Do so. Organize people and find someone to train and suggest it and work towards that, instead of trying to fight my attempts to train her. I'm not trying to make it a mutually exclusive deal, so why are you?

For someone who despises having words put in their mouth, you seem to have no problems doing it yourself, heh.

Although it may not be your intent, every time a "Let's train the Ill'haress in Martial Arts or some other warrior related activity" comes into the LA, it will get a dozen votes straight off the bat (as it wouldn't surprise me if most came from the warriors). So it does, indirectly, make it a near exclusive deal for the warriors. The other ranks don't have that same luxury.

I like a variety of flavor, which is why I'm fighting for other ranks to step in. Otherwise, I risk the situation where I'll have Warrior flavor forced down my throat every other week. I don't want that, so I'm voicing my opinion on the matter and bringing up points why we don't have to make Warrior flavored updates when there's over a dozen varieties to choose from. How else do you expect me to garner support? I realize that my complaints may step on your toes and may reduce your fun, but conversely, watching the warriors hog the spotlight steps on my toes, reduces my fun, and it wouldn't surprise me if others shared that opinion. Many are just too timid/quiet/lazy to speak up as fervently as I do. Personally, I'd much rather see something more productive take place, but a good chunk of the voting populace want to see it, so when you can't beat them... I'm not say "Stop Warrior Beef flavor completely" I'm saying "Hey, how about some chicken or pork?" Do I get in the way of the warriors? Probably, but that is in order to make it fair to the other ranks.))
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Re: Leader Archive - Day 29: Badai Fanclub & Naming the Ruins

Postby Madea on Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:05 am

Champion of the meek, now? Come on. If that were true, you'd have the support you're clamoring for.

The ranked members are Big People and can take care of themselves. If they have a problem with me, they can (and have!) approach me directly and express themselves, and we can resolve it. If they can't, then I can be veto'd. Nearly all of the flak that comes my way, Jeriah, is from you, and most of the time it's not even constructive. It's getting old. You want chicken or pork? I'd like a different tune from you.

But since we're at an impasse, we'll just both have to eat a little crow and be done with it. Peace out.
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Re: Leader Archive - Day 29: Badai Fanclub & Naming the Ruins

Postby Meska369 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:20 am

I hope you're not saying she should only practice 1 non-martial and 1 martial skill. That would be a little in the warriors' favor, would it not? 9 ranks have to fight for that one slot for a share of the spotlight while the warrior's secure their slot with little to no competition. Which leads to my next point...

Also, when I see the leader of the warriors argue for why the warriors should have almost guaranteed LA face time to train the Ill'haress, you have to imagine the loss of weight behind the argument. That's a significant conflict of interest. It doesn't invalidate your points, but one can't help but wonder about the true incentives behind their reasoning.


Jeriah, Interesting point. I have not, as of yet, felt that myself or my Techs have been overlooked. I, also, don't feel any jealousy so far. I think she should be practicing Tir'ay everyday and if the artist want to draw her doing it, I don't have a problem with it. This is what I feel and I cannot vouch for anyone else.

Okay, sure, go ahead and believe that dance and crafts are as empowering - especially for a leader in a worldsetting where military action is both commonplace and requisite to retain a foothold of power - as Tir'ay would be.

And while it can teach temperance, and I *FULLY ENDORSE* teaching her other things, it's just not the same; especially on the battlefields we will undoubtedly have.


Madea, I think Tir'ay will help her have a stronger body, clearer mind and a feeling of personal achevement as she studies. I'm not sure that I want her out on the Battlefield any time in the near or even far future.

Even with all the training you can throw her way, it'll still come down to luck/Kern's whim on whether she's put into danger.


Jeriah, Tir'ay can help to protect her if someone gets to her but it's like a good set of Armor. It helps. Yes, we know she's not a warrior. No, Tir'ay is not an end all, be all. But it is a great way of helping the mind, body and personality merge.

I'm not saying it will do anything special for her, but it certainly has for me personally. I'm not a warrior in any sense of the word, but my own Martial training has helped me be a better, more confidant, person. I had horrible anger issues and lived with a sense of vulnerability because I thought everything might be a threat. My training helped me form better ways to cope, because getting mad on the mat only got your butt kicked, and I had more and more control of my emotions. My training helped me to identify what was and was NOT a actual danger by learning how people moved when they had designs on you. That eased much of my insecurity and my confidence skyrocketed.

This is my reality. I don't know how things will go with Anji, but my story is curiously simular to a bunch of other folks. Maybe Anji will have as good a result. *shrugs*

_______________

Seriously... No more arguments.... *crying* I'm getting a nervous stomach...
Last edited by Meska369 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Leader Archive - Day 29: Badai Fanclub & Naming the Ruins

Postby Jeriah on Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:44 am

((If I am a 'champion of the meek', it certainly isn't intentional, heh. I just speak my mind. If being loud makes me a 'champion', then so be it, but I have no such delusions. I'm just arguing for a level playing field and some variety. You're not the only person tired of things that have gotten old around here.

See you at the next head butting.))
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Re: Leader Archive - Day 29: Badai Fanclub & Naming the Ruins

Postby PenDragon on Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:25 am

I turn my back on you guys for a few hours and THIS is what happens!?! :@

Whatever. Go look at the new thread I started, because it's clear this is going to be "another one of those issues." ^^;
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Re: Leader Archive - Day 29: Badai Fanclub & Naming the Ruins

Postby Kite on Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:37 pm

I'm sorry to announce that today I had to deactivate a few player accounts. This was something I hoped would never happen, but it eventually did. I'm not going to name names, but I need to be clear about this for you all.

First of all, I'm aware of the few people who hold multiple Path to Power accounts. The result which ultimately stems from allowing this to continue is when those multiple accounts become multiple personalities in a community. What happens when those personalities are used to raise conflicts in the community?

As a punishment for this person, I deactivated all but their original account.

This is my fault, and I apologize to the community as a whole for my error in letting it continue as it did, because I had full knowledge of its existence. The reason for this person to have multiple accounts was explained at the first when I asked; it was their roommate's. I warned that if there were complaints, I would have to act.

I understand that some of you were made aware of this persons' multiple accounts, either that you were told by that person yourself or found out through other means. To those who were friends of this person and their roommate, I give my sincerest apologies for I know this will upset you. Please try to accept that this is for the best.

If you have complaints or concerns, PM me. No, I will not release the name of this person unless they wish to come forward themselves.
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Re: Leader Archive - Day 29: Badai Fanclub & Naming the Ruins

Postby Bel'xullyn on Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:42 pm

:O Really ?
*eek* this is serious.. :L
Hope it won't steam even more troubles for anyone now..
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Re: Leader Archive - Day 29: Badai Fanclub & Naming the Ruins

Postby Picanet on Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:07 pm

Only as much trouble as ill-will is not held in check. I hardly think anything beneficial or productive would come out of making a fuss. *hmmm*
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Re: Leader Archive - Day 29: Badai Fanclub & Naming the Ruins

Postby Pariel on Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:39 pm

DAAAAAAAAAAAMMMNNNNNNNNN!!!!! X 3

On a side note, poor Ilrae, being handled by Anki'seth *gives Ilrae chocolate cookies*
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Re: Leader Archive - Day 29: Badai Fanclub & Naming the Ruins

Postby Writer on Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:49 pm

Pariel wrote:DAAAAAAAAAAAMMMNNNNNNNNN!!!!! X 3


XD

Poor Pariel. On the up side, it's not so bad. We actually got something done, and the digging of an actual tunnel might've taken a goodly long while (on par with the builder project, perhaps? Certainly a multi-day task).

Besides, now we have armed strangers approaching. Have we mustered our arguments for claiming the mine?
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Re: Leader Archive - Day 29: Badai Fanclub & Naming the Ruins

Postby FSEffect on Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:53 pm

No weapons for new squad I guess. Best start with the Tir'ay training XD.
I suggest bows and arrows 8P
Or swords, swords will do. ^^;
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Re: Leader Archive - Day 29: Badai Fanclub & Naming the Ruins

Postby Pariel on Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:56 pm

Writer wrote:
Pariel wrote:DAAAAAAAAAAAMMMNNNNNNNNN!!!!! X 3


XD

Poor Pariel. On the up side, it's not so bad. We actually got something done, and the digging of an actual tunnel might've taken a goodly long while (on par with the builder project, perhaps? Certainly a multi-day task).

Besides, now we have armed strangers approaching. Have we mustered our arguments for claiming the mine?


Well, if the new shaft speeds up production enough, I may abandon the idea for work/cost reasons.
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Re: Event Archive - Day 30

Postby Kail'odian on Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:05 pm

Summary of sorts: :3

Warmaster: Fifth squad now available; there is a slight weapon shortage for the moment however.

Healer: Nurse Olympics :D

Miner/Architect/Slavemaster/Engineer: Many hands make light work = Winch construction completed. ^^

Architect: Meeting with the Ilharess.

Crafter: Production of flutes get nicer and faster.

Scout/Supply Master: Tei'kaliath = 1 , Kirisu = 0 :D (three injured by acid burns) (Serantis' group saw some wary and armed strangers who were going to the direction of the mine. Yet the strangers kept their distance. For now.)

Blacksmith: 7 Iron ores = 3 complete and pure iron bars

Summary complete. ^^

As for the group of people who Serantis' spotted, I'm thinking this is a different group of people than the relic hunters earlier. Personally, I believe another clan challenge is coming soon.
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Re: Event Archive - Day 30

Postby Frost Indri on Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:15 pm

Ah, the joys os seeing pretty flutes lined up on the wall. Brings a tear to my crafting eye. *sniff* Ok, so now we're going to have to deal with the people who thought they could own a mine and yet not use it. Silly people. If you don't use it you loose it!
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