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Re: Leader Archive, Day 21 - new symbol, & unknown visitors

Postby Jeriah on Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:53 am

Rulishia wrote:The warriors though should stay at the Fortress and act as an honor guard to the Il'haress.
Again, if the armor can be made and distributed fairly quickly to us it will look REALLY impressive to our new visitors.


We are quartered in a run down fortress. The place is in relative shambles. It's going to be hard to impress anyone who isn't near sighted. Heh.
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 21 - new symbol, & unknown visitors

Postby Rulishia on Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:04 am

Jeez... how much more negative can we be today?

The architects haven't been lax in their duties and have been improving our home. It may not be up to Sarghess standards, but it's a lot better than it was when we moved in.
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 21 - new symbol, & unknown visitors

Postby horusre on Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:45 am

Rulishia wrote:Jeez... how much more negative can we be today?

The architects haven't been lax in their duties and have been improving our home. It may not be up to Sarghess standards, but it's a lot better than it was when we moved in.


((Well, lets see how much more honest a person can be. *wee* Not really negative, just realistic.

The ruins have been cleaned up and look habitable, this is true, but it is still rather shoddy looking in comparison to places that Drow (such as these) are most likely used to. We live in a ruin and (lets face facts) it still looks the part. Any Tei'kaliath that approach these people will probably be judged on that standard; and mostly regardless of how impressive a few might look, or how well they might speak. First impressions matter, and the state of the ruins is the first thing that will be seen. Imagine how it looks to those "intruders", people show up in fancy armor and talking big about their control of a location, when that very location they step out of doesn't look like much to be proud of. And less to boast over.

Just saying that if I was them I wouldn't take any of us seriously. Especially if we came off as arrogant. I'd be offended and quick to dismiss squatters, even well dressed and well armed ones, if the attitude was defensive and possessive. Nobody really own the land, unless they can fight and hold it. Perhaps it is better to accept how this all looks and play to the truths of a situation. Our strength of conviction will show through, Anji is a tough lady and it will shine like a star through everything else.

I'd say have the Ill'haress make the first-contact meeting. It's what she is, the face and soul of the people, might as well put her glow out to dazzle the new comers. She's got plenty of guards, toss in a few ranked (Shiir, Katralya, Mari'ciel, Khanzalika - the normal group I think of) to act as council, an make a show of clan solidarity. They might as well know who they are dealing with, trying to play sneaky only leads to problems later on. Nothing provocative, just plain diplomacy. Maybe I'll live long enough to see a diplomatic active response as opposed to a violent reactive one. ^^; ))
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 21 - new symbol, & unknown visitors

Postby kirio on Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:03 am

Well, it's pretty fair to assume that these traders have been this way before, possibly many times. What they will notice is how much the place has changed since they last passed through here. It's hard to say how impressed they'll be (or not), but they will certainly be surprised.
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 21 - new symbol, & unknown visitors

Postby Jeriah on Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:05 am

((I wouldn't recommend using our ranked members to do the negotiating. For one, it's not in any of their job descriptions. Two, it interferes with their real work. We don't have to stop the presses every time a visitor comes. And even if it's just the ranked members who appear and the assistants continue doing their job, it slows production down if the ranked aren't supervising their people.

In my opinion, the only people that should be involved right now are the scouts for recon, the warriors for security, and An'jhali to address them in a secure area of our choosing (EG Leader to leader talk. 1 spokesperson and 2 guards maximum). In short, only the people whose job it is to address these matters should be there. I feel that anything beyond that is a waste.))
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 21 - new symbol, & unknown visitors

Postby kirio on Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:22 am

I like your negotiation idea, Jeriah, safe & no nonsense. I think calling extras beyond that a 'waste' is too optimistic. At the least they would be a distraction, at worst they could make An'jhali look like the incompetent leader of a mob, especially if she gets contradicted by one or more clan members during negotiation. ^^;
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 21 - new symbol, & unknown visitors

Postby Rulishia on Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:45 am

Yes, what Kirio mentioned is what I'm referring to.

Yes, we may live in a dump (I mean it's a ruin we're renovating, c'mon) by some Chel Clan standards. But, as she said, if these traders have been by here before they will see the improvements we have made.

And great comeback Jeriah, I knew you could come up with a positive idea. Not only that but it makes excellent sense and really ought to be placed into use.

After the events with the Slavers, it's confirmed that negotiations should be handled by Anjhali and not our ranked members. She got overruled I believe by Shiir which hurt her image a bit. So long as we can keep her safe. Yet, having too many warriors present could also be seen as openly hostile as well.
However, don't forget about the warrior reorganization. She has an entire squad available to her as a bodyguard. So that is 5 warriors, right there.
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 21 - new symbol, & unknown visitors

Postby Frost Indri on Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:16 pm

On the other hand, she shouldn't be the one negotiating prices. Not to completely contradict you Rulisha but last time what we learned was that no one wanted to just sit back and trust that the ranked had a plan (devised through discussions with everyone on the forum), and let them go through with it. People wanted to have a say in it, and so they overruled Shiir with our Ilharress. (not the other way around.)

Can the ranked fill the role of negotiating? Yes. However, in game play terms, that means that non-rank members (aka, the ones who bath ;p ) get less interaction with the event.

Right now it is appropriate to our station to be involved with trader negotiations. However, I suggest we bring the traders to her, rather than the other way around. Send a few scouts out to invite their leader to come talk to ours. That way we reduce the threat to her, put her at a point of greater authority in our clan, and we can also be better prepared to show what our clan currently has to offer. (Hospitality, food, fish, water, rope, and hopefully in a turn or two (if its still in time) musical instruments.)

I think its a combination of Ankiseth's and Shana's vote options.
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 21 - new symbol, & unknown visitors

Postby Jeriah on Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:16 pm

((Given that most of the options are almost the same, it won't be difficult to imagine that support is going to be fairly evenly distributed amongst them. It'll probably wind up being a combination of options 1-4, and 6. (1) We'll send a small group to speak with the intruders, (3) inviting them to speak with An'jhali (2) at a safe spot near the ruins, (6) wearing the best looking stuff. Then lead into (4) offering food, water, rest, etc. to start friendly relations/negotiations. Unfortunately, I put in #3 about a minute after #2 was entered, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.

It's not that the people don't trust that the ranked have a plan. We know that they have a plan (for the most part) and we don't always agree with it. It may be that many people feel that the ranked get plenty of action as it is and they want to be more active in the Clan's decisions. That occurrence where Shiir get overruled should serve as a reminder that just because one is ranked, they still should listen to the people (and not selectively either) or the people may overturn the ranked's actions.

Here's something to think about. If we can't trust the supplymaster to mine an ore deposit, why would we trust that the warmaster can handle negotiations? We believe that the mine is out of the supplymaster's scope, so wouldn't negotiations be out of the warmaster's scope? I'll trust the warmaster to handle security and I'll trust the supplymaster to gather food. However, negotiations I would rather defer directly to An'jhali or a ranked negotiator.

In this instance with the traders, outside of their core duties, I feel that the ranked should limit their involvement to recommendations on what sort of supplies they'd like, giving her an idea of what acquisitions the ranked 'council' feels should take priority. However, creating a wish list is a little early at this time until we establish friendly rapport and find out what they have to offer. And this is assuming we even want what they have. "Interfering" more than they have to may come across as weak leadership unless An'jhali starts female dog slapping the offending ranked member at the scene.))
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 21 - new symbol, & unknown visitors

Postby horusre on Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:43 pm

((Ank'iseth Samarrikh for Diplomat! *wee*

*chuckles*

I still think using a ranked or two is an effective show of solidarity. They would be there not to engage in the diplomacy directly, but rather to show that the clan is a diverse group, and that we all stand behind the chosen leader. Having Anji introduce individuals as "my/our Warmaster" or "my/our Supply Master" should show that we do have some division of labor and consider ourselves civilized enough to be above the "hunter/gatherer" level of living. But what do I know?

And lest it got ignored at the start... Ank'iseth Samarrikh for Diplomat!))
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 21 - new symbol, & unknown visitors

Postby Bamawing on Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:28 pm

During my walk (which nearly killed me, might I add... vacation let my muscles get lax bigtime!!) I came up with this idea, and then kicked myself for already voting. But then, it's already Wednesday... and I've been gone. *shrug*

If we were the biggest, boldest, most impressive clan that we could hope to become, we would send an envoy to greet the visitors proudly: a very friendly face- the best negotiator we have - coupled with an impressive warrior or two, as well as some unseen ninja-types flanking the rear in case things got ugly.

Our amabassador would say something along the lines of "Welcome to our home, the cavern of the clan Tai'kaliath! Is there anything we can do for you?" This is, in my mind at least, a very polite way of saying "This is our home. We want to be friendly, but we also want to know what you are doing here." If they got hostile, time to break out the big guns. If they were friendly, we could offer to escort them to our Ill'haress.

Of course, we're 21 days old. I think the best we can do is send our best negotiator - An'jhali, along with as many warriors we can muster. I'm a little scared to send out our leader, but I think she's the best chance we have, as well as this being a good opportunity for her. If they don't attack us outright, we can simply explain that we are new here and our comforts are rough, but our manners and our pride is not. Treat them well, and hope they rise to our expectations.

And if they don't, introduce them to the business end of Shiir's spear. }:3
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 21 - new symbol, & unknown visitors

Postby dialacton21 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:51 am

Well like Anki'seth says we should know what they have to offer first. I seriously doubt that the intruders are hostiles. They are a merchant caravan. The guards main task is to guard said caravan; not being the aggressor. If we don't attack them they have no reason to fight. At worst we'll offend them in some way, they go home, tell their friends, and then attack us. But they won't put their goods at risk to pick a fight with us.

Simply put we need to know what they have to offer.

This means sending An'jhali (with guards) to talk to them.
This does not mean sending the whole ranked elite plus the whole clan in some kind of pointless display of solidarity. It's not necessary. There is nothing to be solidair for. We just want to know who they are, and what they are doing in our territory (their probably wandering the same thing about us).

Plus this is a good growing up experience for An'jhali if she does this without ranked interference. It shows that she can handle a situation herself.

If these intruders have something to offer they'll say so. Then we start with wish lists, and whatever.

Right now introductions are inorder.
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 21 - new symbol, & unknown visitors

Postby Kir'ima on Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:01 am

Tei'kaliath Times Classified Ads wrote:Help Wanted!
Two new scout assistants needed for group of fun-loving scouts.
Flexible 24-hour schedule. Meals and lodging provided. All travel expenses reimbursed.
Willingness to be molested a plus. Ability to avoid pigtail tentacles preferred.
Explore new lands! Find resources! Meet new people! Try not to get killed!
Interested parties please submit name to Kir'ima's Unseen thread.
Resume and references not required.
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 21 - new symbol, & unknown visitors

Postby horusre on Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:03 pm

dialacton21 wrote:Well like Anki'seth says we should know what they have to offer first. I seriously doubt that the intruders are hostiles. They are a merchant caravan. The guards main task is to guard said caravan; not being the aggressor. If we don't attack them they have no reason to fight. At worst we'll offend them in some way, they go home, tell their friends, and then attack us. But they won't put their goods at risk to pick a fight with us.

Simply put we need to know what they have to offer.

This means sending An'jhali (with guards) to talk to them.


((I couldn't agree more.))

This does not mean sending the whole ranked elite plus the whole clan in some kind of pointless display of solidarity. It's not necessary. There is nothing to be solidair for. We just want to know who they are, and what they are doing in our territory (their probably wandering the same thing about us).

Plus this is a good growing up experience for An'jhali if she does this without ranked interference. It shows that she can handle a situation herself.


((Since you specifically mentioned the word I have been using (ie - solidarity) I'll make the loose assumption you are referring to my recent post. Without malice I'd like to defend my position within the light of the fact I did not state all of the ranked should be involved. Just a few (tops of four by my estimation) was my suggestion. And I never said anything about anyone else being involved, as I don't trust the voting masses and I would shudder to think what would happen if other gums started flapping in a diplomatic situation. Fools rush in... and all that.

And to be totally realistic, some of the ranked will most likely show up in the comic update anyway. And it shouldn't effect production as it probably wouldn't be a part of their action, it's JUST what the artist might feel like presenting at the time. There is enough precedent already established for me to expect such a thing.

And to be honest, I don't see why such and activity would be considered "pointless". It does show solidarity (ie - "a bond of unity between individuals, united around a common goal or against a common enemy") and strength of character. Realistically, currently, that is all the Tei'kaliath has, so how can making a show of that strength be pointless or unnecessary?

Sure, having faceless guards does the same thing... but where is the entertainment in that? Are we not here to see familiar and favorite faces appear in the comic? Isn't that kind of the point of the thing? ^^

But I'm not ranked, I don't have any power to change events, so I'm just thinking aloud. Hmmm, or thinking atyped. *ponders* Whatever the terminology would be to stipulate postulating while I write. *chuckles*))
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Re: Leader Archive, Day 21 - new symbol, & unknown visitors

Postby Novusod on Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:26 pm

dialacton21 wrote:At worst we'll offend them in some way, they go home, tell their friends, and then attack us. But they won't put their goods at risk to pick a fight with us.


That is not the worst that could happen. The worst case would be that they can grab our Ill'haress and hold her hostage or kill her. No need to defeat the whole clan when chopping off the head of the snake is all it takes to shatter our solidarity. If it seems like we have multiple ranked officers that can take charge and retaliate then they won't try anything. Merchants are some of the least trust worthy professions in existence. Merchants produce nothing but make a living by trading things of lesser value for higher value things. They make a living by taking advantage of people. If you let a merchant hold all the cards they will have no problem taking everything from us. What they have is not important because a merchant can always trade it off for something better.

The more Tei'kaliath we send at them the better. There is nothing a merchant fears more than a mob for a large force is not easily swindled.
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