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Re: Leader A. Updated; Day 10 Early

Postby Meckruco on Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:14 pm

I would like to point out that when the silent woman did speak she said "Never... Never trust anyone" she is a leader.. or maybe a master of a bunch of puppets.
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Re: Leader A. Updated; Day 10 Early

Postby Madea on Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:13 am

Yes, and while she might possess the true influence, we've seen nothing to this point suggesting she is a fighter.


I'd given a lot of thought to the whole "spare or kill the loudmouth" question, and ultimately here was the bit of enlightenment that had me choose the "no mercy" route. Mainly, this:

We're screwed any way we go.

No matter what we do, no matter how nice we are, that lady can twist everything we do into a negative thing if she chooses, and we don't really have ability to determine what might make her trust us. No matter what happens, it can *always* be painted in a bad light, and so we're constantly playing the game by her rules; she's in control, and we're giving her that control.

No more.

Sun Tzu says that, when a you are fighting a battle on losing ground, change the ground. Move to terrain advantageous to you, instead of attempting to struggle. This applies to social contexts as well; this is a losing ground, so we're changing the context of the battlefield. They had the opportunity for a peaceful solution, but blew it. Instead of exhausting ourselves trying to prove we're not bad people, we're taking control of the situation.

It seems draconian, and - really - it is. But it's necessary in this case, if for the simple reason that, if we try to reason with them, we will constantly be trying to prove ourselves and, meanwhile, every tiny mistake will be blown out of proportion while our successes will likely count for nothing. If they're going to assume we're evil val's, we better capitalize on that.

No matter what quiet says, if our response is "surrender or die", there's not exactly much room for her to twist that. The worst she could make that sound was "they're lying, they'll kill us anyways!" and then we just get to the point (and, meanwhile, those who are too afraid to fight will cower or run). It will be much easier for us, in the long run, and since we have so little resources, well, we need to capitalize on what's given us.

Yes, it might suck, but they'll like us well enough if we take them as slaves and treat them decently, and we can try to be more diplomatic the next time, because this is only the first of many, many trials we have to overcome. :3
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Re: E.A. Updated; Day 10, Early - Follow Up

Postby kirio on Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:15 am

Good call Medea.
In the medium and long term we'll have more luck with the other slaves. They are bound to find out eventually about the slaves of our former city being granted membership to the clan and that will give them hope and ease some of their worries. In the short term, we really need to show them that we aren't willing to take any crap.
Good Luck Shiir!!

abs artist!?!? *lol* That's great!
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Re: Leader A. Updated; Day 10 Early

Postby Hfar on Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:38 am

Madea wrote:Yes, and while she might possess the true influence, we've seen nothing to this point suggesting she is a fighter.


I'd given a lot of thought to the whole "spare or kill the loudmouth" question, and ultimately here was the bit of enlightenment that had me choose the "no mercy" route. Mainly, this:

We're screwed any way we go.

No matter what we do, no matter how nice we are, that lady can twist everything we do into a negative thing if she chooses, and we don't really have ability to determine what might make her trust us. No matter what happens, it can *always* be painted in a bad light, and so we're constantly playing the game by her rules; she's in control, and we're giving her that control.

Sun Tzu says that, when a you are fighting a battle on losing ground, change the ground. Move to terrain advantageous to you, instead of attempting to struggle. This applies to social contexts as well; this is a losing ground, so we're changing the context of the battlefield. They had the opportunity for a peaceful solution, but blew it. Instead of exhausting ourselves trying to prove we're not bad people, we're taking control of the situation.

It seems draconian, and - really - it is. But it's necessary in this case, if for the simple reason that, if we try to reason with them, we will constantly be trying to prove ourselves and, meanwhile, every tiny mistake will be blown out of proportion while our successes will likely count for nothing. If they're going to assume we're evil val's, we better capitalize on that.

No matter what quiet says, if our response is "surrender or die", there's not exactly much room for her to twist that. The worst she could make that sound was "they're lying, they'll kill us anyways!" and then we just get to the point (and, meanwhile, those who are too afraid to fight will cower or run). It will be much easier for us, in the long run, and since we have so little resources, well, we need to capitalize on what's given us.

Yes, it might suck, but they'll like us well enough if we take them as slaves and treat them decently, and we can try to be more diplomatic the next time, because this is only the first of many, many trials we have to overcome. :3


Very well. I suppose your the boss and you know whats best. But let's not get to blood thirsty, else our reputation proceeds us (with other slaves). That being said, kick this loudmouth's ass!
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Re: Leader A. Updated; Day 10 Early

Postby Meckruco on Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:25 pm

Madea wrote:Yes, and while she might possess the true influence, we've seen nothing to this point suggesting she is a fighter.


I'd given a lot of thought to the whole "spare or kill the loudmouth" question, and ultimately here was the bit of enlightenment that had me choose the "no mercy" route. Mainly, this:

We're screwed any way we go.

No matter what we do, no matter how nice we are, that lady can twist everything we do into a negative thing if she chooses, and we don't really have ability to determine what might make her trust us. No matter what happens, it can *always* be painted in a bad light, and so we're constantly playing the game by her rules; she's in control, and we're giving her that control.

No more.

Sun Tzu says that, when a you are fighting a battle on losing ground, change the ground. Move to terrain advantageous to you, instead of attempting to struggle. This applies to social contexts as well; this is a losing ground, so we're changing the context of the battlefield. They had the opportunity for a peaceful solution, but blew it. Instead of exhausting ourselves trying to prove we're not bad people, we're taking control of the situation.

It seems draconian, and - really - it is. But it's necessary in this case, if for the simple reason that, if we try to reason with them, we will constantly be trying to prove ourselves and, meanwhile, every tiny mistake will be blown out of proportion while our successes will likely count for nothing. If they're going to assume we're evil val's, we better capitalize on that.

No matter what quiet says, if our response is "surrender or die", there's not exactly much room for her to twist that. The worst she could make that sound was "they're lying, they'll kill us anyways!" and then we just get to the point (and, meanwhile, those who are too afraid to fight will cower or run). It will be much easier for us, in the long run, and since we have so little resources, well, we need to capitalize on what's given us.

Yes, it might suck, but they'll like us well enough if we take them as slaves and treat them decently, and we can try to be more diplomatic the next time, because this is only the first of many, many trials we have to overcome. :3


Well put Shiir. I was thinking along the same lines but did not have a refrance to show. thank you.
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Re: Leader A. Updated; Day 10 Early

Postby Madea on Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:13 pm

Meckruco wrote:Well put Shiir. I was thinking along the same lines but did not have a refrance to show. thank you.


It has more than a few parallels to a current situation which shall, of course, remain nameless... ^^;
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Re: E.A. Updated; Day 10, Early - Follow Up

Postby Hetros on Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:47 am

sounds good. Kill him.
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Re: E.A. Updated; Day 10, Early - Follow Up

Postby suntiger745 on Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:20 pm

Hmm, I think it's a good idea of Ka'hab to go and check for those lights. She or someone else should probably continue with that.

Giving first aid courses to more people is also a really good idea. :)

The scouts have a little situation on their hands, but as Ys'sa is the Tir'ay champion, and was running towards the scouts as I understood it, perhaps staying put for now would be best for them when Ys'sa has joined them. They are discovered, and too few to charge ahead I think.
A coordinated move with the soldiers would probably work well though, since they're in a position to flank the slaves if supported properly.

Unless the lights the scout spotted before were hostile so we need a defensive spot soon, we could also make a siege of it.
We're sitting on all the resources after all, while the slaves are limited, as long as we block them off.

Oh, and Katralya seems to do a mean shot put. ;)


Should we ask the Ill'haress to make the terms "Join us or die", "Join us or leave", or "Leave or die"?
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Re: E.A. Updated; Day 10, Early - Follow Up

Postby Thalar on Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:25 am

I think the wording now would be "Submit or die."
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Re: E.A. Updated; Day 10, Early - Follow Up

Postby suntiger745 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:11 am

That works. :)
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Re: E.A. Updated; Day 10, Early - Follow Up

Postby Serantis on Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:36 am

Update, And Shiir for the Win. Now we wait to see how they react. *Sits and smokes something not approved by the FDA*
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Re: E.A. Updated; Day 10, Early - Follow Up

Postby Hfar on Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:59 am

Now, will they tear us apart for killing this dude? Or will they be dishearten at the loss of their warrior?
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Re: E.A. Updated; Day 10, Early - Follow Up

Postby Finish on Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:19 pm

Nice work Shiir, you beat the shit out of that guy. ;) Good that he died, I think that guy was realy just a loudmouth. I don't surprise me that he showed suddenly some respect as lay on the ground and begged for his life. Before we celebrate our victory we shouldn't forget that there's still a small group a slaves attacking our scouts.
Therefore I would suggest to send the warmaster, together with the Illharess and the rest of his troop to the scouts. Those slaves also seems to be the bravest otherwise they would have been fleed to the ruins to. If we defeat them this would discourage the others.
Unlike the most of you I don't think the time for words is cover. If the slaves, who attacking our scouts see that backup arrives (maybe with the head of their speaker) we can force them to surrender. Maybe we can say something like: "He was a fool! So he died like a fool as he challenged our warmaster. Go and tell your friends in the ruins they can either join our Clan and prove their worth, run away and never come back or die and don't bother us any more."
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Re: LA Updated; Day 10 Early/Follow Up - It's the Duel

Postby kirio on Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:48 pm

Finish,
After thinking about this for awhile, it occurred to me that running away may not be a realistic option for them. We may not know of this but the Val clans in Chel use tracking collars. This cavern may be out of detection range. If they return to the main cavern, they are at risk of being picked up and hauled back to their former master or sold at auction in the slave market. That would certainly explain why there are so damn many of them here. I wonder how they have been managing to feed themselves. They don't seem to have been using the river or they would have noticed us within the first 48 hours after we arrived in the cavern since we moved down to the river almost immediately. *hmmm*
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Re: LA Updated; Day 10 Early/Follow Up - It's the Duel

Postby Hetros on Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:57 pm

I think it was a mass break out... we're arriving with in the current time line right? not past or future?
Anyway, I may not agree completely, but given madea's argument I have to agree it was the most logical course of action.
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