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OOC - suggestion?

Re: OOC - suggestion?

Postby blackshade10 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:14 am

-pokes thread again- :O
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Re: OOC - suggestion?

Postby Thalar » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:47 pm

Brr. I'll leave this post in this thread for the next 24-48 hours for your comments before I post it officially. If you see anything I missed, or have suggestions, please feel free to comment. And happy new year *smallsmile*

Review Guidelines

These guidelines are under constant review and may change at any given time.

=====

The review:
  • Polite - The review is a tool for helping the player to rework their character.
  • Unbiased - Your personal feelings about the player are irrelevant and should not affect the review.
  • Factual - Don't waste words on embellishments or derogatory comments, keep your focus.
  • Unwavering - Once a review is posted, it is final.

A review can have only three outcomes.
  • (R) - Refused. Player should submit their next try to the Newbie School thread before attempting a repost.
  • (C) - Conditionally approved. The condition must be agreed to by the player - the player posting their agreement in the Registration thread, thus effectuating whatever change was deemed necessary; After this the player can begin play without any further review, as the changes are considered to have been made. If the player does not agree with the conditions, the character sheet is considered (R) and the player must resubmit for a new review after taking their character sheet to the Newbie School thread for assistance.
  • (A) - Approved. Character is now playable.

A review that ends in (R) should be informative, detail everything that did not work about the character, and include ideas on how to make the character playable. In the event that the character is more or less impossible to make playable in this worldsetting, the player should be encouraged to start a new character instead of attempting to fit the current character into a worldsetting it was not made for.

A review that ends with (C) should be very specific about the conditions applied. It should also include other notes that the reviewer finds applicable. The necessary changes for a (C) character sheet should be minute, not worth a full repost. The player should be given the option for a full repost if the player does not agree with the conditions. In the event that the player does not agree, the character sheet is considered (R).

A review that ends with (A) should include whatever notes the reviewer finds applicable.

=====

The preliminary review:
A character sheet will be put through a preliminary review as soon as possible after it has been posted. The character sheet will then be locked for editing, awaiting the written review.
NOTE: A character whose preliminary review ends with (A) may immediately be put into play.

The preliminary review will grade a character sheet in the following areas:
  • Worldsetting accuracy - Does the character and its background fit with the worldsetting?
  • Mana arts - Is the listed mana arts skill as expected of a character of this age, with the amount of training and practice indicated in the background, and does the mana art confirm to the worldsetting?
  • Abilities - Are the indicated abilities in line with what one would expect of a character of this age, with the amount of training and practice indicated in the background?
  • Items - Are the items in line with the worldsetting, with the character's funds/other means of acquiring items, and are they acquired in a manner that is in line with the worldsetting and the character's background?
  • Total power level - Is the power level, as comprised by Mana arts, Abilities and Items, appropriate for the character described, and is it in line with the power level restrictions of the DT rpg?
  • Backstory cohesiveness - Does the background make sense, is the character progressing from its birth to where it is now in a cohesive, rather than random, manner?
  • Plausibility - How likely is it that the indicated character background would actually work in this worldsetting, meaning that the character actually survived to the point where it is now? Does the background make overall sense?

The grades will be from 0 (unacceptable) to 9 (good). A score of 4 or below indicates this area needs work. A score of 2 or below suggests this area needs radical change. A score of 5 or 6 indicates some refinement is possible, while a score of 8 or 9 indicates that change is unnecessary, unless an overall change is to be made. The preliminary review, like the final review, will end with either (R), (C) or (A).

=====

The review categories:

Worldsetting accuracy

The most difficult part about character creation is understanding the worldsetting and making sure your character fits within it. In part this is because the DT rpg worldsetting goes through little shifts and changes at a rate which is hard to follow. In part, it is because the worldsetting is different from what players are used to in some ways.

Examples of typical worldsetting errors:
  • Humans with magic - Only fae have auras, and auras are necessary to use mana arts. Humans do not have auras.
  • Inheritance down the male lineage - Among drow the male lineage is not followed, and does not apply in matters of inheritance.
  • Male head of the family - In drow tradition, the female is the head of the family.
  • Male drow physically stronger and/or dominant over female drow - Female drow are physically stronger than male drow, and dominate the somewhat weaker males, thus this should almost never occur in a character background.
  • Female drow physically weak and/or submissive towards male drow - This is extremely uncommon in the worldsetting, and a very common error in submitted characters.

In general, female drow are the leaders of society, and a male drow has to work twice as hard as a female drow for the same amount of recognition, if he can get it at all. Several positions and facets of society, including the most powerful mana arts (summoning), are restricted to females only, with very few exceptions. There has been no great push for equality between the sexes in Chel so far, so the inequalities persist. The gender roles tend to be more strict among the traditionalists (Beldrobbaen, Kyorl'solenurn, Great Clans in general) and less so among those who oppose the traditions or simply have more important things to worry about (Sarghress, commoners).

Other common errors include trying to force through a character one uses on many different forums, attempting to shave it down some to fit it into this worldsetting. This is usually a waste of effort, as so-called 'universal' characters rarely ever fit below the power level restrictions that are in place, in addition to the problems with changing the background. Strongly recommend to start from scratch rather than trying to fit a preexisting character to this worldsetting.

A low score in this part of the preliminary review means the character sheet describes items, events, abilities or other that are not in line with the worldsetting. Usually such errors stem from not knowing the worldsetting closely enough, and the review should explain how these errors can be fixed.



Mana arts

Valid for all elemental mana arts: The element must be present in order to be made use of.
Valid for both summoning arts: Generally female-only, the only exceptions being backgrounds which give a satisfying explanation as to how a male managed to learn this art, as it is not taught at Orthorbbae. Exceptions for Kyorl'solenurn (as detailed below).

NOTE: Your character may not acquire a new mana art during play. If you wish your character to have an undiscovered sorcerous affinity, you need to include that in your Mana Art field, as <element> Sorcery (untrained).

  • None - Your character is either not a fae, or has no elemental affinity nor even any potential in basic mana manipulation.
  • Basic Mana Manipulation - The basic mana skill of all drow. It is not innate, but it is fairly simple to learn, and includes shielding, basic mana bolt and dispelling. Your character is assumed to have this on the side of any other mana art. A character may also have basic mana manipulation as their only mana art, in which case you need to enter this in the Mana Art field.
  • Sorcery - One element only, but can be any allowed element. Elemental affinities are often - but not always - inherited through bloodlines. If you are not born with this affinity you cannot learn sorcery. A sorcery may to a limited degree be self-taught, as it is an innate ability, but this will make the character weaker than a character which has trained with a teacher for the same amount of time.
  • High Arts - One or Two compatible elements only. High arts do not require any affinity, and may be learned by any drow with access to teachers.
  • Summoning, Traditional - Explain in the background how your character acquired your current summon. Summons other than drow/light elf are hard to acquire at this point. Your summon must be imbued with an element (commonly Earth) - this does not require an elemental affinity - to affect the physical world, and may not have above animal level intelligence.
  • Summoning, Demonic - Ver'drowendar only. Explain in the background how your character came to be a demonic summoner, and remember this is a very new art in a drow timeframe. Due to the excessively large damage potential of a demonic summoner, your character is limited to weaker ver'aku only (weakest for an inexperienced character). The available amount of summons for a demonic summoner should be very low, less than five even on an experienced character.
  • Summoning, Demonic (Kyorl'solenurn) - Your character may not have any demonic summons. Restricted to sealing demons (Templars, Wardens) and opening and closing gates (Wardens).
  • Empathy - Untrained empaths will be having problems around people of strong emotions, and may go insane from the emotional pressure. Empathy does not confer the ability to literally read other people's thoughts. A skilled empath may be trained in brainwashing, locating auras (fae, demons, tainted), animal training or healing. Learning any of these abilities must be explained in the background. Empathy is normally an inherited trait.
  • Empathy, Healing - A person with a talent for healing empathy will be trained almost exclusively in this, due to the skill's rarity and the danger to the empath. Healing empathy is extremely taxing on the empath.
  • Empathy (Kyorl'solenurn) - Kyorl'solenurn empaths (Inquisitors) are rushed to Orthorbbae as soon as possible after they manifest the ability, and are trained mainly to locate auras and to brainwash corrupted, with a main focus, for DT rpg players, on locating auras and being able to tell their nature (pure or tainted, demon or fae).
  • Spellsong - Almost exclusively the province of the Illhar'dro. Mainly a support mana art. A non-Illhar'dro spellsinger character will require a lot of explanation in the background, and is not recommended, as teachers would be extremely hard to find. Spellsong is -not- the same as Sound affinity.¨
  • Golem-making - This art is very difficult and time-consuming to learn, and requires focused study. Learning this art on the side, while focusing on other abilities, will leave the golem-maker unable to make more than simple tools with this art. A focused golem-maker may not make any golem larger than drow-size, with both size and complexity scaling to character's age, experience and teaching as detailed in the background.


Abilities

Pick a weapon that your character has specialized in, or write a short description of a fighting style your character uses. Explain how your character learned this in the background.

  • Don't go overboard with the description.
  • Don't claim to be proficient with everything - pick your speciality.
  • No supernatural feats of strength, agility or the like.
  • Avoid 'berserk' mode. It works in anime, sure, but it doesn't work here. The exception would be if you understand how berserking puts you at a disadvantage, not advantage, in a fight, and use this as a character weakness.
  • No winning fights against multiple opponents of greater skill, no rescuing the day single-handedly in the face of unrelenting adversity. Your character should not be winning encounters way above the power level indicated by the character's training and experience as explained in the background.
  • The power level restriction is in effect, and this is a mainly social RP, so it is not a good idea to focus the background on the character's abilities and fighting prowess.

Items

The character's items should be in line with the character's funds and background. Everything that your character carries or wears normally, should be in this list. You should also list any important items (to the character) that are kept in your character's home.

  • List an amount of ada carried on your character's person, which is appropriate to the character's background. Suggested ada amount: 1-5 if poor, 20-25 for a regular commoner, 100+ for a Great Clan noble. Variation is allowed, as long as the background explains it.
  • Clothes, armor, equipment, should all be listed.
  • Poisons and potions MUST be detailed as to their effect. Amount must also be listed.
  • No intelligent or living weapons or items.
  • No intelligent pets.
  • No 'magical' items.
  • Don't try running around with a full arsenal of different weapons.

Total power level

A character may not be overly powerful. This is a social RP mainly, and there are restrictions on just how powerful a character may be. The combination of a character's skills and items should not exceed the expected level for a normal person of the same training and funds.

Regardless of character's age, pick one mana art, and one combat skill, and decide which one your character has focused on. The younger the character, the greater the focus on one or the other, though generalization is possible at a cost to proficiency. The older the character, the more equal these two skills may be, though a character who has specialized in one of the two will be more powerful than one of the same age and amount of traning who has not specialized in either.

A low score in this area of the preliminary review means the total power level is too high. Encourage lower total power levels.


Backstory cohesiveness

Your character's background does not have to be perfect. But it must be cohesive. If the character's background is disjunct, if there are parts of the character's life missing or the like, your character sheet will recieve a low score in this area.

If your character does not remember their past, that is fine. But you must nevertheless write the whole background, from birth to present, without leaving any holes.

Time skips are allowable, and it is not expected that you write about every single year of your character's life. Focus on those events that made your character into the person they are at present. But don't skip from one point to another in the character's life at random without any explanation.


Plausibility

The question asked here is fairly simple; How plausible is it that your character has survived to the present, given the background you've submitted?

Looking at the encounters described, the training and experience detailed in the background, worldsetting taken into account - does the background make sense with these considerations?

A low score in this area means you've described a character which is difficult to imagine as surviving to the present in this worldsetting.


Other
  • Bad grammar is not a valid reason for refusal of an otherwise playable character. If the grammar is excessively bad, to such a degree that the character sheet is difficult or impossible to understand, a repost may be requested, and the original sheet Refused.
  • Pets - Avoid intelligence level above a normal animal. No magical abilities. Pets best avoided completely, as they are often forgotten by the player until it is convenient for them to show up.
  • No Great Clan animal mount - The signature animals of the Great Clans are not available to own. They are a resource which generally only the vals have access too, although higher ranked subhouse members may borrow mounts when necessary. Use and mention of mounts is discouraged. No mounts will fight for you.
  • No command of NPCs - You don't get to write a background which puts NPCs at your character's beck and call. If your character is in charge of a group of people, they must be on leave for the duration of your play, and unable to call upon this group/person for aid. The same goes for belonging to a group. Players do not get to call upon NPC friends.
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Re: OOC - suggestion?

Postby blackshade10 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:01 am

Alrighty... here's some ideas from me.

Firstly, clarification: For pets, I imagine you mean "no intelligent" as in something with human-level thoughts, and not just a dog who's smart (Sit, stay, speak, roll over, etc.)

Secondly, I don't think it's totally unreasonable for someone to have a pet. Just that it should be noted that it is to the review team to decide if they think the player is responsible enough.

Next, On the NPC rule. I think it should be allowed to have command of NPC's, but not constantly or consistently. As in, events within a story, or when the players are within that players real (ala, their fortress or some such.) Obviously this should be played low, and clearly stated that is not to be done often or consistently. Also, it should be placed that "command" is a bad word, but rather... higher rank I suppose. That is to say, you cannot at your beck and call, but they would probably listen to you. TL;DR, they cannot be traveling or with you, but can show up at rare times. Just feel that for many characters, this is kind of an element that is present in DT.


Another is the generalization vs specialization. I really am against specialization to a degree that goes too far. Very often this turns into the specialized guy arguing that he/she is somehow immune or resistant to magic or melee, and thus, wins by default cause he's specialized. If someone is specialized, they should know that while they will be better at one, they will be far worse at the other and that also counts toward knowledge of how to combat the other. In other words, if you aren't good at magic then you don't have knowledge on how to fight it either. It is your weakness.


Another question on Summoning, traditional. Our knowledge for summonable creatures are very limited, so could we perhaps allow some leeway here? That is to say, allow people to kind of create a creature? Of course, it would still have to follow all the rules (no intelligence and the like), but I think it would add some fun for those who went that route. Yes, I'll be honest, I had ideas of my own.



Question on Spellsong: Is there not a Spellsong teacher at Orthorbbae? So, couldn't someone learn it there?

Jhal'na Val'Illhar'dro - Headmistress of Spellsinging at Orthorrbae
- From the wiki. This somewhat leads me to believe that students who show skill for it could learn it there, and outside knowledge would still be nigh impossible though.



And finally, do we begin reviews?
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Re: OOC - suggestion?

Postby Alric » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:37 am

blackshade10 wrote:
And finally, do we begin reviews?


[quote="Thalar"]I'll leave this post in this thread for the next 24-48 hours for your comments before I post it officially.[/url]

I suppose that's your answer. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think "the review categories" section (and on) would make a good character guide for those interested in the roleplay.
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Re: OOC - suggestion?

Postby Bamawing » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:13 am

I had similar thoughts as Blackshade, so I'm quoting him. ^^

blackshade10 wrote:For pets, I imagine you mean "no intelligent" as in something with human-level thoughts, and not just a dog who's smart (Sit, stay, speak, roll over, etc.)

Secondly, I don't think it's totally unreasonable for someone to have a pet.

Next, On the NPC rule. I think it should be allowed to have command of NPC's, but not constantly or consistently.


My current main character has both a pet and occasional NPC servants. In both cases, they fit well with my character, and I don't abuse either. But just to avoid the possible "well-bama-gets-to-do-it-what-about-me," I suggest stating that these elements are "allowed but discouraged, and usually granted only to experienced, trusted players." The reason for this is you are able to only play one character per thread, in practice as well as in the letter of the law. It might be good to state this as well.

As far as Black's question on spellsong goes... dude, this is for basic players. Average joe isn't going to be able to come up with a non-Ill'hardro spellsinger. Yeah, sure, I suppose if someone has a SUPER wonderful idea that we haven't come up with yet, then OK. But the point of this exercise is to provide basic guidelines, not exceptions.

Traditional summoning, though... I agree that we need more guidelines on that. Even if Kern is too busy to deal with the intricacies of traditional summoning, we need to have an idea on what's acceptable for our purposes.
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Re: OOC - suggestion?

Postby blackshade10 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:25 pm

This guideline is for both the players and reviewers, should someone try to make a non-Illhardro Spell Singer, then we have to be able to respond to that, and not run into a "No, Refused." or "I have no idea what to do." moment. I merely pointed out that Orthorbbae has it's own Spellsong teacher, or at least that's what it looks like, so it isn't as unattainable, I feel. Since anyone could go to Orthorbbae with the money, all they would need is the ability to sing and an affinty for it, I believe.
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Re: OOC - suggestion?

Postby Thalar » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:29 pm

blackshade10 wrote:Firstly, clarification: For pets, I imagine you mean "no intelligent" as in something with human-level thoughts, and not just a dog who's smart (Sit, stay, speak, roll over, etc.)
Thalar wrote:Pets - Avoid intelligence level above a normal animal.


blackshade10 wrote:Secondly, I don't think it's totally unreasonable for someone to have a pet. Just that it should be noted that it is to the review team to decide if they think the player is responsible enough.

I didn't say it was totally unreasonable. What I said was:
Thalar wrote:Pets best avoided completely, as they are often forgotten by the player until it is convenient for them to show up.
And I said this because this is what usually happens. If a player is confident they can include their pet in their adventures then of course they can have one, but this is intended to give the players an idea of how to build a character just as it is intended to tell a reviewer how to review a character. And I would not recommend a player to include a pet for their character.

blackshade10 wrote:Next, On the NPC rule. I think it should be allowed to have command of NPC's, but not constantly or consistently. As in, events within a story, or when the players are within that players real (ala, their fortress or some such.) Obviously this should be played low, and clearly stated that is not to be done often or consistently. Also, it should be placed that "command" is a bad word, but rather... higher rank I suppose. That is to say, you cannot at your beck and call, but they would probably listen to you. TL;DR, they cannot be traveling or with you, but can show up at rare times. Just feel that for many characters, this is kind of an element that is present in DT.

No. The ability to command NPCs is not available to players. The exception is when a player GMs a story.

Pulling rank on someone is not the same as being in command of someone. Your character attempt to lord themselves above anyone, but the reactions should be up to the story's GM. A character does not get to have an NPC or a group of NPCs at their beck and call. I'll expand the guidelines' explanation of this point if that is necessary. But we can't have characters going around with an arsenal of NPCs doing all their work for them. That is the basic intent of this guideline. If it can be written in a way that explains this better I will change the formulation, but I'm going to need some suggestions. Please don't hesitate to ask if this needs further explanation. More on this further down ^^

blackshade10 wrote:Another is the generalization vs specialization. I really am against specialization to a degree that goes too far. Very often this turns into the specialized guy arguing that he/she is somehow immune or resistant to magic or melee, and thus, wins by default cause he's specialized. If someone is specialized, they should know that while they will be better at one, they will be far worse at the other and that also counts toward knowledge of how to combat the other. In other words, if you aren't good at magic then you don't have knowledge on how to fight it either. It is your weakness.

If you're specialized in melee you're better at it than someone who's gone the generalized route of both melee and magic. If you're specialized in magic you're better than someone who's gone the generalized route of both melee and magic. But if you've gone the generalized route of both melee and magic, you're better at magic than a melee specialist, and better at melee than a mana specialist. Of the same age, experience and amount of training.

This says nothing of -how- much better, and it is not meant to imply a huge difference. Since we don't place a numerical value on people's skills, the difference will always be a question of age, experience, and amount of training. Generalizing simply splits the training and experience into two different areas instead of one. And the background details the amount of training and experience, which varies from character to character.

blackshade10 wrote:Another question on Summoning, traditional. Our knowledge for summonable creatures are very limited, so could we perhaps allow some leeway here? That is to say, allow people to kind of create a creature? Of course, it would still have to follow all the rules (no intelligence and the like), but I think it would add some fun for those who went that route. Yes, I'll be honest, I had ideas of my own.


Kite posted a short list of different faeyorn that are all available for use, provided the player explains how they acquired their summon. Creating own creatures is discouraged, as it is too easy to end up with a worldsetting error. This is not a worldsetting that takes kindly to having other people's creations added.. if that sentence makes sense *hmmm*
I could always request more information, since last I can remember the list is still very short and with little explanation. In the meantime however, my recommendation stands.

blackshade10 wrote:Question on Spellsong: Is there not a Spellsong teacher at Orthorbbae? So, couldn't someone learn it there?
Jhal'na Val'Illhar'dro - Headmistress of Spellsinging at Orthorrbae
- From the wiki. This somewhat leads me to believe that students who show skill for it could learn it there, and outside knowledge would still be nigh impossible though.

The affinity for spellsong is virtually nonexistant outside of the Illhar'dro clan. And the Illhar'dro guard their knowledge of it. Orthorbbae teachers, as far as we know, get to decide on their own whether or not to accept a student for their classes, and a non-Illhar'dro would not have the affinity, making the learning process that much harder, if they could manage to convince a teacher of their worth in the first place. Which is where my comment comes in:
Thalar wrote:Almost exclusively the province of the Illhar'dro. [...] A non-Illhar'dro spellsinger character will require a lot of explanation in the background, and is not recommended, as teachers would be extremely hard to find.

Non-Illhar'dro spellsingers are extremely rare, and anyone wanting to play one should write a good background explaining how they found someone willing to teach them - whether they managed to convince the teacher at Orthorbbae (no mention of Jhal'na obviously, she's not the only spellsong teacher there) or found someone else outside of Orthorbbae.

Keep in mind that rare backgrounds, combinations and so on, require more of the player. These things are rare in the worldsetting, and thus should not be common in the DT RPG. If rare things become common, that forces another restriction in place, like it did with Kyorl renegades and halfbreeds.

blackshade10 wrote:And finally, do we begin reviews?

When I post the preliminary reviews, you may begin your own reviews. No sooner.

Bamawing wrote:My current main character has both a pet and occasional NPC servants. In both cases, they fit well with my character, and I don't abuse either. But just to avoid the possible "well-bama-gets-to-do-it-what-about-me," I suggest stating that these elements are "allowed but discouraged, and usually granted only to experienced, trusted players." The reason for this is you are able to only play one character per thread, in practice as well as in the letter of the law. It might be good to state this as well.

How do we decide who's gonna be granted this, and who isn't, though? How long must someone play to be called an experienced and trusted player? The reason is sortof what I'm trying to get at as well, you're meant to play this as your character, not as the leader of some group that does all the dirty work for you - ordering a slave around (though not an army of them o_o) or a servant (ditto) or even a lower ranked soldier, would -normally- be fine. But mainly because your character isn't directly in charge of them and cannot ask them to do significant things for them. For example, you can't order someone to steal an item, kill someone, or somesuch, unless the person you're ordering is a PC. You don't control the NPC, unless it's a minor and insignificant thing like telling a slave to get your clothes for you and get you dressed and whatnot. But a person who is under your command has to obey your order. You could protest and say that a slave or a servant has to obey as well, but they are affected by a lot of other factors - they do not answer to you alone. A group under your command does.

I really need to get some sleep as I am getting up in less than seven hours, but I hope I have come closer to explaining this better.

Bamawing wrote:But the point of this exercise is to provide basic guidelines, not exceptions.

Exactly ^^ But it's also for trying to cover as much of the basic as possible, so all comments y'all have are appreciated =)

Keep it coming guys. I'm on a week-long intensive class at uni so I will only be able to reply intermittently. I'll check back for more suggestions tomorrow, to see if I need to rewrite or add something to the review guidelines. And you can keep giving feedback after they are posted officially as well, since as I've stated at the beginning, they remain changeable. ^^
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Re: OOC - suggestion?

Postby blackshade10 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:45 pm

Thankee Thalar. :]

I realize that a lot of my posts tend to reiterate what's already been said, I just have a obsession with making sure everything is crystal clear for this sort of thing, sorry about the repetition of your words. The reason I ask on the exceptions is so that we can have that down on record: Should it come up, we can actually go to this thread, and point out where we ruled it. This way, we can be specific and consistent, and hopefully avoid frustrating new players when we say that they cannot do something; easy to reach information is always in high demand. I've read through the newbie thread and one of the most commonly seen things is a new player getting upset and saying how they couldn't have known something.

As for the Illhardro thing, it's a rarity, without a doubt, but I don't think it's unreasonable. For example, so long as I am right in assuming both male and females have the art, then a male who sired a child from another clan could have inadvertently passed the affinity to the child. Obviously, this is a low-chance occurrence, especially depending on how careful they are with who they sleep with, but it's just an example. Like I said, I like the idea of getting specifics down since it clears any confusion for both our team and players.

Oh, and I had no idea there was a list. *goes to search for it*

Oh hey, it's in the old WS thread. I never gave it much of a peek since it was... well, titled outdated. *goes to read* :3
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Re: OOC - suggestion?

Postby Bamawing » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:44 am

*gentle nuggle for Cress'in* Cress, please give poor Thalar a break on the Ill'hardro thing. She's just trying to avoid tons and tons of people making non-Ill'hardro spellsingers. (So if you want to make one yourself, it's actually in your best interests to keep the "restriction" in place. She certainly can't approve a bunch of "rare" characters.)

But since there are exceptions, why don't we include an elastic caveat: "On occasion, certain minor exceptions to the worldsetting rules may be permitted, depending on the believability of the character written. Such exceptions are up to the primary reviewer (Thalar) only."

Keep in mind that while we, as secondary reviewers, are offering specific feedback; Thalar is the primary reviewer and she'll say which rules can be bent when. (It''s actually nice for us, we don't have to make the hard decisions. We just have to explain them.)

Thalar, best of luck with your uni class!
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Re: OOC - suggestion?

Postby blackshade10 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:40 pm

I'm not arguing against that Bama. I am simply trying to get the most accurate information possible. I don't want to leave anything up to interpretation unless we have to. Like it or not, there are people who will try to make these exceptions, and usually, that consists of about half of the applicants. I have no personal interest in making one, I just want clear and accurate information for as many things as possible, even beyond the basic. The basic are usually pretty easy to figure out with a little research. This guide will help that, but the rare and unusual stuff needs to be addressed too.

And I don't think that only Thalar should have to review the rare ones. I mean, she's already reading them over and giving us a point total for all of them, so it's really her call at all times, with just some flexibility for us.

And yes, good luck Thalar.
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Re: OOC - suggestion?

Postby Thalar » Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:51 pm

Nothing wrong with reiterating, or asking for specifics. But if I've said something, I prefer if I cannot answer your questions about what I said by simply quoting what I said *upset*

blackshade10 wrote:As for the Illhardro thing, it's a rarity, without a doubt, but I don't think it's unreasonable. For example, so long as I am right in assuming both male and females have the art, then a male who sired a child from another clan could have inadvertently passed the affinity to the child. Obviously, this is a low-chance occurrence, especially depending on how careful they are with who they sleep with, but it's just an example. Like I said, I like the idea of getting specifics down since it clears any confusion for both our team and players.

There you go saying "unreasonable" again. Nowhere did I say it was unreasonable. Please do not assume that I think something is unreasonable when I say it is rare and requires more from the character background. If I meant it was "unreasonable" I would have said "this is not possible". "Virtually non-existant" means it is not impossible to find one or two that actually have an affinity for spellsong and are outside of the Illhar'dro clan. But it -also- means that this is so rare it almost never happens. Which, in turn, means that a person wishing to play such an exception would need to give a satisfying explanation for how this exception came to be. I do believe this has been done in the past. But for a player who wants to play a spellsinger - being an Illhar'dro should be the most realistic option, thus the formulation of the guideline.
And yes, I am working under the assumption that the spellsong affinity is inherited, and can be inherited from either parent just like an elemental affinity, until we are told different.

Bamawing wrote:But since there are exceptions, why don't we include an elastic caveat: "On occasion, certain minor exceptions to the worldsetting rules may be permitted, depending on the believability of the character written. Such exceptions are up to the primary reviewer (Thalar) only."

I'd prefer not to include such a caveat, as it would tend to encourage people to try even harder to make up even more rare things *eek*
The general trend is towards playing the uncommon - which ironically makes the common rare. I would prefer to encourage people to play more 'normal' characters rather than encourage so many 'special' characters that no character is ever special. And I realize there's a draw towards playing something out of the ordinary, which is why there aren't more restricted combinations in place, because we want people to play, not just write character sheets over and over again. Hm, and I'm starting to ramble, time to move to the next point, and quick o_O

Bamawing wrote:Keep in mind that while we, as secondary reviewers, are offering specific feedback; Thalar is the primary reviewer and she'll say which rules can be bent when. (It''s actually nice for us, we don't have to make the hard decisions. We just have to explain them.)


I'll be the one responsible for the outcome of the review, which means any complains will have to go to me, too ^^

Bamawing wrote:Thalar, best of luck with your uni class!

Thank you both ^^ Exam tomorrow, so I've fallen a bit behind here. But after that is taken care of, we'll get this show on the road finally *smallsmile*
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Re: OOC - suggestion?

Postby Roses Ablaze » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:21 am

Thalar wrote:Kite posted a short list of different faeyorn that are all available for use, provided the player explains how they acquired their summon. Creating own creatures is discouraged, as it is too easy to end up with a worldsetting error. This is not a worldsetting that takes kindly to having other people's creations added.. if that sentence makes sense *hmmm*
I could always request more information, since last I can remember the list is still very short and with little explanation. In the meantime however, my recommendation stands.


Ooh, where is this list? I'm not interested in RPG'ing (because I'd suck at it), but I am interested in canonically existing Drowtales creatures.
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Re: OOC - suggestion?

Postby blackshade10 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:43 am

Roses Ablaze wrote:
Thalar wrote:Kite posted a short list of different faeyorn that are all available for use, provided the player explains how they acquired their summon. Creating own creatures is discouraged, as it is too easy to end up with a worldsetting error. This is not a worldsetting that takes kindly to having other people's creations added.. if that sentence makes sense *hmmm*
I could always request more information, since last I can remember the list is still very short and with little explanation. In the meantime however, my recommendation stands.


Ooh, where is this list? I'm not interested in RPG'ing (because I'd suck at it), but I am interested in canonically existing Drowtales creatures.


Here you are: viewtopic.php?f=52&t=4324&hilit=Summons&start=15



@Thalar

Forgive my word choice, didn't mean for it to come across that way. And that sounds fine. Also I believe it is a inheritable trait too, or so I am led to believe off the wiki (I think.)
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Re: OOC - suggestion?

Postby Alric » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:45 pm

Hope your exam went well, Thalar! Anyways...letting people create non-Illhar'dro characters with spell song sounds like a bad idea. I don't want to sound like a killjoy, but as far as we know, that ability is unheard of outside of that clan. It may be possible that spellsong could be passed on by an Illhar'dro male, but for gameplay purposes it should be restricted only to the Illhar'dro. Furthermore, if I remember correctly, spellsong requires training to use effectively, and the Illhar'dro are apparently the only ones who can provide such training. More here.

Note the "extremely rare." In the FFRPG, we should read that as "non-existent" in most cases. :P
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Re: OOC - suggestion?

Postby Thalar » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:25 pm

blackshade10 wrote:Forgive my word choice, didn't mean for it to come across that way. And that sounds fine. Also I believe it is a inheritable trait too, or so I am led to believe off the wiki (I think.)

No need for apologies, I just want us all to be on the same page. The closer we all are to the same idea, the better. So keep asking if there is something that should be clearer.

Alric wrote:as far as we know, that ability is unheard of outside of that clan. It may be possible that spellsong could be passed on by an Illhar'dro male, but for gameplay purposes it should be restricted only to the Illhar'dro. Furthermore, if I remember correctly, spellsong requires training to use effectively, and the Illhar'dro are apparently the only ones who can provide such training. More here.

Note the "extremely rare." In the FFRPG, we should read that as "non-existent" in most cases. :P

Yeah, I wrote that part, after a longer talk with Kern ^^
I'm not opposed to people making good attempts at creating something that's really rare, but such character sheets will always be held to a higher standard because of all the extra work that is necessary in order to make it work; finding a teacher that will actually teach you, for one. I'd rather not put a restriction in place unless it becomes necessary, because once a restriction is in place it takes a lot to lift it.

So.. Any of this that we've discussed which needs adding to the guidelines? Any other suggestions before they get posted officially?
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