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My theory on drowussu/drowolath half-breeds

My theory on drowussu/drowolath half-breeds

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:20 pm

The drowussu and drowolath have been living together for a thousand years in the Underworld, and before that light and dark elves shared the world for eons.

How come there wasn't a whole culture/race of half-breeds living in between the light and dark elven empires? In our own world, if you travel from Sweden to Mali you won't find a frontier with white people at one side and black people at the other, what you find is that the skin of the locals slowly darkens as you travel south.

The half-breeds are a tiny minority in Chel. How come the grey and black drows haven't melted into a single race? Even taking into accout the racial prejudice, the different drow races do mix and breed, so, if they were like humans, there should be a huge "mulato" population (I'm using the spanish term knowing it doesn't fit) just like in the Caribbean.

Kern has told us that the half-breeds tend to be a psychological mess due to their mixed heritage, sharing both the lawful drowussu's and chaotic drowolath's personality traits, but we have seen that, with proper education and indoctrination, you can make even pure drowolath behave like drowossu, so mixed personality traits shouldn't present a problem for half-breeds (it can be easily corrected with education).

My theory on drowolath and drowussu is that they are like wolves and coyotes. Wolves and coyotes can interbreed fine, but if the half-breeds reproduce with each other, each generation presents reduced fertility and health, until the fourth generation is usually sterile.

The only way of getting a stable population of half-coyotes, half-wolves (AKA coywolves) would be to add new half-breeds every generation, to replace the puppies that the sterile coywolves won't produce.

But, in nature, nobody is going to introduce new half-breeds on a regular basis to keep the population, and pure wolves and coyotes don't tend to crossbreed often (the wolves would rather kill and eat the coyotes, and coyotes would rather avoid wolves at all costs, recognizing them as dangerous predators), so an hypothetic population of half-breeds would either go extinct or be absorbed back into the pure parent species (when their number and fertility dwindled, the half-breeds would tend to try to mate with either wolves or coyotes, producing offspring that would look almost pure).

I think that's what happens with drows. Even if the half-breeds created their own community, it would tend to decrease each generation due to low fertility.

But, what about the Dutan'vir?
The Dutans were a clan with drowussu that accepted half-breeds as members, not a half-breed clan. They had a core of drowussu, but they didn't reject their own half-breed offspring, and acepted both drowussu and half-breed new recruits, but not pure drowolath, into their fold.
The drowussu core and the new half-breed recruits kept the clan going, even if some half-breeds were sterile.

The new generations of the Dutan'vir clan were drowussu born into the clan, new half-breeds born to these drowussu (I think that would be rare, since it seems that the Dutan'vir kept the serial monogamous mating customs of the drowussu, in opposition to the polygamous drowolath custom, so Dutan'vir would tend to mate with drowussu or half-breeds rather than drowolaths), half-breeds born from the clan's half-breeds (some would be born despite the lower fertility), new drowussu and half-breed recruits, and sometimes one of the clan's half-breeds would mate with a drowolath and produce a drowolath.

Since more drowussu than drowolath new blood entered the clan (the Dutans would prefer mating with drowussu over drowolath, and they took in new drowussu recruits, but not drowolath), it remained a clan of pure drowossu and half-breeds.

The Duskians, on the other hand, took in pure drowolaths, and since much more drowolath than drowussu new blood entered the clan, it eventually became an almost pure drowolath clan (the duskian drowolath outbred the duskian drowussu and half-breeds).

Your thoughts?
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Re: My theory on drowussu/drowolath half-breeds

Postby Dalvyserran » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:28 pm

They are almost genetically incompatible

Just creating a mixblood is rare and hard to do between a dark elf and light elf, and the same applies with drow.
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Re: My theory on drowussu/drowolath half-breeds

Postby partner555 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:08 pm

Dalvyserran wrote:They are almost genetically incompatible

Just creating a mixblood is rare and hard to do between a dark elf and light elf, and the same applies with drow.

Where did you get the genetic incompatibility thing?
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Re: My theory on drowussu/drowolath half-breeds

Postby MEK1724 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:24 pm

Dalvyserran wrote:They are almost genetically incompatible

Just creating a mixblood is rare and hard to do between a dark elf and light elf, and the same applies with drow.

Nope they're fertile with one another , and produce fertile offspring .
so, if they were like humans, there should be a huge "mulato" population (I'm using the spanish term knowing it doesn't fit) just like in the Caribbean.

Mostly men were colonisers , they had a very unbalanced sex ratio . Ergo if they wanted to get married or have children , it pretty much had to be with a native woman , or else you wait forever for women to show up .
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Re: My theory on drowussu/drowolath half-breeds

Postby Dalvyserran » Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:24 am

Of course they're fertile.

I mean genetic compatible as in it's hard to create a mixblood in the first place. THAT'S why there are so few and there can never bee a large mixblood population similar to the Caribbean people.

And lets not forget the stigma against interbreeding. That also plays a large factor.
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Re: My theory on drowussu/drowolath half-breeds

Postby MEK1724 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:27 am

Dalvyserran wrote:I mean genetic compatible as in it's hard to create a mixblood in the first place.

Not the info I got . They weren't described as much different from our races that I remember .
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Re: My theory on drowussu/drowolath half-breeds

Postby Luzahn » Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:33 am

If anything I'd just say it's the low population of the drowussu leading to fewer halfbloods. Plus, maybe the darker pigmentation of the Drowolath is more dominant/noticeable?
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Re: My theory on drowussu/drowolath half-breeds

Postby MEK1724 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:37 am

Dalvyserran wrote:I mean genetic compatible as in it's hard to create a mixblood in the first place

I asked Kern , he said lath and ssu don't have a hard time having children together .
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Re: My theory on drowussu/drowolath half-breeds

Postby partner555 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:04 am

MEK1724 wrote:
Dalvyserran wrote:I mean genetic compatible as in it's hard to create a mixblood in the first place

I asked Kern , he said lath and ssu don't have a hard time having children together .

Did he say anything about your theory? It would really help.
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Re: My theory on drowussu/drowolath half-breeds

Postby Whizzard » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:07 pm

The thing is, Kyorl have their own walled city and they don't let lath into it. And only ssu that get out are templars and alike. Ssu commoners don't meet lath much.

As for Dutans, they were completely obliterated 30 years ago. Their clan was mainly slaughtered and commoners were mostly turned into demons to fight the Dutanvir (while no certain proof, prologue outright says that this was the main tactic of Nidra'chaal). What was left of the clan itself scattered, some went to Sarghress, some just left, some got captured and sold to slavery and out of commoners, most left because their home was filled with demons and then Kyorl came along who murdered all who got tainted. When Kyorls had done their job, looters from all over the Chel moved in and did a clean job. Now it's just mostly pile of rocks known as Ruins of Nidra'chaal War.
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Re: My theory on drowussu/drowolath half-breeds

Postby Catriana » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:15 pm

Half-breeds are not born sterile, nor do they have a higher chance of sterility. Vanir and dokklafar (the predecessors of drowussu and drowolath) are the same species. That means they are absolutely genetically compatible. The difference, mostly, is superficial. They simply have different skin color, somewhat different cultures, and both sides are racist.

They don't stick together because 1) They don't have the numbers and 2) It would make them an easier target.

Racism, general taboos, and segregation is the reason why there are so few half-bloods. I know people don't like to use real world examples, but America is a really good example of how those three things can kill any possibility for an interracial growth, much less a community. While there are a larger number of mixed children here today, that would not have been the case 40 years ago(which was when interracial marriage was legalized). With acceptance comes growth.

So unless the lath and ssu's get over their prejudices (I doubt it, considering ssu's have a legitimate reason for their lack of trust toward laths), it is unlikely that there will ever be enough half-bloods to form a community, much less a clan.
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Re: My theory on drowussu/drowolath half-breeds

Postby Junglefowl26 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:47 pm

On that note, I think it is worth noting that the summoner from the series of the same name is half-dark elf, half-light elf, so clearly that was going on back then as well.
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Re: My theory on drowussu/drowolath half-breeds

Postby Tsuris » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:51 pm

Junglefowl26 wrote:On that note, I think it is worth noting that the summoner from the series of the same name is half-dark elf, half-light elf, so clearly that was going on back then as well.

"That" being Light elves and Dark elves porking =w=

also Kern said to me while I was making my Kyorl cameo that the Dutan'vir's skintone is darker because they're basically a clan of halfbreeds, they breed with laths back in the day but there were more ssus in the clan so they tended to lean towards a lighter skin tone, IE, Cas'nihlus and Minka have lighter skintones then say, 'Lok or Zan'nah but darker skin tones then Shimi or Chiri.
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Re: My theory on drowussu/drowolath half-breeds

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:09 pm

Catriana wrote:Vanir and dokklafar (the predecessors of drowussu and drowolath) are the same species. That means they are absolutely genetically compatible. The difference, mostly, is superficial. They simply have different skin color, somewhat different cultures, and both sides are racist.


Is that canon? I remember that Kern said that he entertained the idea of making Gailen Val'Nal'Sarkoth a half-breed, but he wasn't sure at that point if laths and ssus could interbreed (that was before he introduced the Dutan'vir clan), which makes me think that he conceived both elven races as different species.

Do you have a canon source for light and dark elves being the same species?. If that were true, all that talk about the drowolath being naturally more chaotic than the light elves is false, and it's all a cultural thing? I think that it would be important to clarify this last point.
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Re: My theory on drowussu/drowolath half-breeds

Postby Catriana » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:04 pm

Doom Chinchilla wrote:
Catriana wrote:Vanir and dokklafar (the predecessors of drowussu and drowolath) are the same species. That means they are absolutely genetically compatible. The difference, mostly, is superficial. They simply have different skin color, somewhat different cultures, and both sides are racist.


Is that canon? I remember that Kern said that he entertained the idea of making Gailen Val'Nal'Sarkoth a half-breed, but he wasn't sure at that point if laths and ssus could interbreed (that was before he introduced the Dutan'vir clan), which makes me think that he conceived both elven races as different species.

Do you have a canon source for light and dark elves being the same species?. If that were true, all that talk about the drowolath being naturally more chaotic than the light elves is false, and it's all a cultural thing? I think that it would be important to clarify this last point.


A canon source? If they are classified as elves, then they are the same species. If they can mate and produce viable, fertile offspring, they are of the same species. Dokklafar are not naturally more chaotic than vanir because of genetics, and I wouldn't even call it chaotic as opposed to how their systems of government are set up. If we go off of the information in the chapter Vanaheimr, we know that light elves have a culture surrounding a communist-type of society. We know dokklafar had a monarchy, but looking at how the Chelian laths have turned out (given that it's been confirmed that their culture and government is rooted in dokklafar traditions), we can tell it was likely that the queens were not as strict and controlling with their people. So yes, it would make one culture look more chaotic than the other, but once again, it's not because of genetics. Biocultural evolution defines a people.

Look at it like this: there are many, many mix breed dogs. Even though their parents all looked completely different and have different skills and attributes, they were still able to mate and produce viable offspring because they are the same species. I have a dog that's a Shiba Inu/German Shepherd mix. If you've ever seen a Shiba Inu, well just know that must have been an awkward mating. Hopefully the mother was the German Shepherd and not the other way around.

I don't ever remember Kern having the non-interbreeding issue be canon, but he has made it openly clear as late as the last LS that the two races can interbreed freely. People confuse race with species, and it's not the same thing. Race means you are the same species.
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