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Which clan would you be part of? (Year 1114 edition)

Choose the faction you would want to be part of if you were a drow?

Val of Sharen
17
6%
Vel of Sharen
8
3%
Sarghress
47
17%
Beldrobbaen
30
11%
Illhar'dro
11
4%
Vloz'ress
38
14%
Nal'sarkoth
22
8%
Kyorl'solenurn
21
8%
Jaal'darya
22
8%
Sullissin'rune
21
8%
Balvhakara
15
5%
Jie'yen
7
3%
Nidraa'chal
7
3%
Kal'yantra
3
1%
Black sun
4
1%
 
Total votes : 273

Re: Which clan would you be part of? (Year 1114 edition)

Postby Raziel » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:04 pm

Vazeron1 wrote:I wouldn't necessarily think that the Sarghress would necessarily fall apart after the war; it entirely depends on how ideologically motivated its members are to a Val-less state. If anything, I would say that they either have a very selfish form of anarchist or socialist mindset depending on what state they plan to form if they win (i.e, they make sure everyone in their clan is cared for, and do help the commoners to a fairly significant extent), but as we haven't seen their economic policies beyond their raiding/trade network, I don't think that we can really determine it as of yet. Essentially, given the wide spread of Sarghress territory, I'd say they have a good chance of actually winning a war, but only time will tell how well they manage Chel after. I think they will probably stay together, as the clan isn't entirely militaristic, and with Quain leaving, their largest warmonger will be gone. I don't see Kel'noz, Mel, or Ariel just letting the clan fall apart that quickly.

Kel or Ariel yes, Mel, not so much. ^^;
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Re: Which clan would you be part of? (Year 1114 edition)

Postby James Rye » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:11 pm

Yay for Templars and Warden! :D
2 votes! Woot! We´re going strong here! XD XD XD
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Re: Which clan would you be part of? (Year 1114 edition)

Postby Vazeron1 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:12 pm

Raziel wrote:
Vazeron1 wrote:I wouldn't necessarily think that the Sarghress would necessarily fall apart after the war; it entirely depends on how ideologically motivated its members are to a Val-less state. If anything, I would say that they either have a very selfish form of anarchist or socialist mindset depending on what state they plan to form if they win (i.e, they make sure everyone in their clan is cared for, and do help the commoners to a fairly significant extent), but as we haven't seen their economic policies beyond their raiding/trade network, I don't think that we can really determine it as of yet. Essentially, given the wide spread of Sarghress territory, I'd say they have a good chance of actually winning a war, but only time will tell how well they manage Chel after. I think they will probably stay together, as the clan isn't entirely militaristic, and with Quain leaving, their largest warmonger will be gone. I don't see Kel'noz, Mel, or Ariel just letting the clan fall apart that quickly.

Kel or Ariel yes, Mel, not so much. ^^;



Point about Mel, but she has shown interest in being a relatively pacifistic leader before *too lazy to find actual page*.
On the other hand, she doesn't exactly have a great deal of loyalty to Quain or the clan.
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Re: Which clan would you be part of? (Year 1114 edition)

Postby Kirik » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:22 pm

Vazeron1 wrote:
Raziel wrote:
Vazeron1 wrote:I wouldn't necessarily think that the Sarghress would necessarily fall apart after the war; it entirely depends on how ideologically motivated its members are to a Val-less state. If anything, I would say that they either have a very selfish form of anarchist or socialist mindset depending on what state they plan to form if they win (i.e, they make sure everyone in their clan is cared for, and do help the commoners to a fairly significant extent), but as we haven't seen their economic policies beyond their raiding/trade network, I don't think that we can really determine it as of yet. Essentially, given the wide spread of Sarghress territory, I'd say they have a good chance of actually winning a war, but only time will tell how well they manage Chel after. I think they will probably stay together, as the clan isn't entirely militaristic, and with Quain leaving, their largest warmonger will be gone. I don't see Kel'noz, Mel, or Ariel just letting the clan fall apart that quickly.

Kel or Ariel yes, Mel, not so much. ^^;



Point about Mel, but she has shown interest in being a relatively pacifistic leader before *too lazy to find actual page*.
On the other hand, she doesn't exactly have a great deal of loyalty to Quain or the clan.

Without Quain holding the clan in tight grip around I don't think that anyone there have great deal of loyalty towards anyone...
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Re: Which clan would you be part of? (Year 1114 edition)

Postby Vazeron1 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:18 pm

I'm not quite sure... I think there is perhaps more bonds holding the clan together than one might think, but of course that's mere speculation. I guess we'll just wait and see :3
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Re: Which clan would you be part of? (Year 1114 edition)

Postby Durlyn Val'Sarghress » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:47 pm

Vazeron1 wrote:I wouldn't necessarily think that the Sarghress would necessarily fall apart after the war; it entirely depends on how ideologically motivated its members are to a Val-less state. If anything, I would say that they either have a very selfish form of anarchist or socialist mindset depending on what state they plan to form if they win (i.e, they make sure everyone in their clan is cared for, and do help the commoners to a fairly significant extent), but as we haven't seen their economic policies beyond their raiding/trade network, I don't think that we can really determine it as of yet. Essentially, given the wide spread of Sarghress territory, I'd say they have a good chance of actually winning a war, but only time will tell how well they manage Chel after. I think they will probably stay together, as the clan isn't entirely militaristic, and with Quain leaving, their largest warmonger will be gone. I don't see Kel'noz, Mel, or Ariel just letting the clan fall apart that quickly.




Agreed, Quain and her family wouldn't just let the clan fall apart, if they win the war for Chel, they'll find something new to do, like exploring/retaking the surface. Both Quain and Ariel wish to see the Overworld again, and who knows what the clan could accomplish afterward in the years to come? At any rate, the main priority right now is surviving the war for Chel.
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Re: Which clan would you be part of? (Year 1114 edition)

Postby Sy'rasri » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:58 pm

Vazeron1 wrote:I'm not quite sure... I think there is perhaps more bonds holding the clan together than one might think, but of course that's mere speculation. I guess we'll just wait and see :3


The bonds, I think, aren't holding the clan together. Rather they hold the merc groups together. Thus, a Wolf Fang might not feel loyalty towards Quill, just as a Highland Raider won't feel loyalty to Rosof. At the moment, the loyal to your commander is split with Quin and the clan, who has in a way become one in the same (Quin = clan, even if she wishes that wasn't so). The question is what would happen if Quin and a commander have a disagreement or they (the commanders) see a side of her they don't like. Will it split the groups into piece (aka, those loyal to Quin, those loyal to possible profits, those loyal to their commander).

If you have little connection with your commander, many might just decided that they're group those they have fought beside for ages matter more than some distant commander or even Quin herself. I mean, life and death situation tend to build strong bridges with those around you, rather than some distant figure.

Another point is that what will happen to the clan once the battle is done? I'm sure some commanders are certain that Quin will rethink her opinion and become Empress. While others are counting down the days to leaving Chel. While others still are waiting for Quin to order the conquest of all of Chel. Depending on what she decides, commanders, soliders and others will find something that they don't like.

It is easier to bring people together against a single problem than it is to keep them together over many.
Drow just take that saying and make it Quin's worst nightmare.
I seem to be in a mood to write a lot, sorry.
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Re: Which clan would you be part of? (Year 1114 edition)

Postby Vazeron1 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:20 pm

Hm, you raise a decent point, but don't forget that while the clan is drafted out of commoners and mercenaries, they are still a fully fledged clan of their own. Yes, they were originally a collection of mercenaries, but since they have been existence for centuries at this point (or so I believe; my dates aren't entirely up to scratch), they do have a history and a common unifying purpose. I would think that, from what we've seen, Sarghress soldiers are little different from the soldiers of any other major clan, but for the fact that there are a) significantly more of them, and b) they have been drafted out of all paths of life. That openness gives the Sarghress a powerful strength, and I would think that the loyalty of the clan members is, as always, primarily to the Vals. Without a clear successor, yes, there would be significant infighting and the Sarghress might tear themselves apart in their struggles if Quain died without a clear heir, but since Ariel exists, leadership will directly pass to her, and she will be an Illharess in her own right. Also, never apologize for writing a lot xD. Reasoned debate is fun!
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Re: Which clan would you be part of? (Year 1114 edition)

Postby Sy'rasri » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:38 pm

Vazeron1 wrote:Hm, you raise a decent point, but don't forget that while the clan is drafted out of commoners and mercenaries, they are still a fully fledged clan of their own. Yes, they were originally a collection of mercenaries, but since they have been existence for centuries at this point (or so I believe; my dates aren't entirely up to scratch), they do have a history and a common unifying purpose. I would think that, from what we've seen, Sarghress soldiers are little different from the soldiers of any other major clan, but for the fact that there are a) significantly more of them, and b) they have been drafted out of all paths of life. That openness gives the Sarghress a powerful strength, and I would think that the loyalty of the clan members is, as always, primarily to the Vals. Without a clear successor, yes, there would be significant infighting and the Sarghress might tear themselves apart in their struggles if Quain died without a clear heir, but since Ariel exists, leadership will directly pass to her, and she will be an Il'haress in her own right. Also, never apologize for writing a lot xD. Reasoned debate is fun!


You pointed it out yourself. For all those years, they had a main unifying purpose.
The many questions raised from that is, what will happen when they get there?
Gain Val title, done.
Beat the Sharen, nearly done.
...
After that, what next? What is the next step? What is the next battle? Even if it political with bit push on rebuilding it would be a great focus...for only a few who care. What if people, even if they like Ariel as the next leader, don't like what she is planning to do? What if there are others, which is bond to happen, that feel that they know the true direction for the clan? What if people just decided that, if Quain lives, that wherever she goes they go (screw the clan)? What if one of the merc groups decide to take more land, even when the war is over?

These are all possibilities that can occur, whether Quain is a live or not. Ariel as an heir assures nothing. Having her go through training and "earn" her title, is no guarantee for loyalty from everyone. Especially, is people like Suube are around, there to question is Quain is wise to leave the clan in the hands of some so young or so something (I'm sure Suube would come up with something). If Ariel trains with the Wolf Fangs, the Highland Raider might not connect with her and vise versa.

The time after the war and even during it will decide how well Ariel will be able to handle the clan as a whole. Some may figure that Kel is a better leader than Ariel and that by ignoring Kel'noz Quain has fallen into the same bloodline hole as other Vals. Or perhaps they are those who, do to their lack of connection to the Val's, don't feel loyalty them, but to a specific commander who is willing to follow Quain. If that commander doesn't feel loyalty to Ariel or questions her judgement in anyway. Ariel is screwed and the only way she can prove herself is to be Quain. Which can never happen...

Maybe Quain should ask the Jaal's to make a clone of her, just in case.
Also, thank you for that...I'm still worried though this isn't the proper place to hold this discussion and I'm sure there is already a thread out there about this.
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Re: Which clan would you be part of? (Year 1114 edition)

Postby Durlyn Val'Sarghress » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:29 am

Sy'rasri wrote:
Vazeron1 wrote:Hm, you raise a decent point, but don't forget that while the clan is drafted out of commoners and mercenaries, they are still a fully fledged clan of their own. Yes, they were originally a collection of mercenaries, but since they have been existence for centuries at this point (or so I believe; my dates aren't entirely up to scratch), they do have a history and a common unifying purpose. I would think that, from what we've seen, Sarghress soldiers are little different from the soldiers of any other major clan, but for the fact that there are a) significantly more of them, and b) they have been drafted out of all paths of life. That openness gives the Sarghress a powerful strength, and I would think that the loyalty of the clan members is, as always, primarily to the Vals. Without a clear successor, yes, there would be significant infighting and the Sarghress might tear themselves apart in their struggles if Quain died without a clear heir, but since Ariel exists, leadership will directly pass to her, and she will be an Il'haress in her own right. Also, never apologize for writing a lot xD. Reasoned debate is fun!


You pointed it out yourself. For all those years, they had a main unifying purpose.
The many questions raised from that is, what will happen when they get there?
Gain Val title, done.
Beat the Sharen, nearly done.
...
After that, what next? What is the next step? What is the next battle? Even if it political with bit push on rebuilding it would be a great focus...for only a few who care. What if people, even if they like Ariel as the next leader, don't like what she is planning to do? What if there are others, which is bond to happen, that feel that they know the true direction for the clan? What if people just decided that, if Quain lives, that wherever she goes they go (screw the clan)? What if one of the merc groups decide to take more land, even when the war is over?

These are all possibilities that can occur, whether Quain is a live or not. Ariel as an heir assures nothing. Having her go through training and "earn" her title, is no guarantee for loyalty from everyone. Especially, is people like Suube are around, there to question is Quain is wise to leave the clan in the hands of some so young or so something (I'm sure Suube would come up with something). If Ariel trains with the Wolf Fangs, the Highland Raider might not connect with her and vise versa.

The time after the war and even during it will decide how well Ariel will be able to handle the clan as a whole. Some may figure that Kel is a better leader than Ariel and that by ignoring Kel'noz Quain has fallen into the same bloodline hole as other Vals. Or perhaps they are those who, do to their lack of connection to the Val's, don't feel loyalty them, but to a specific commander who is willing to follow Quain. If that commander doesn't feel loyalty to Ariel or questions her judgement in anyway. Ariel is screwed and the only way she can prove herself is to be Quain. Which can never happen...

Maybe Quain should ask the Jaal's to make a clone of her, just in case.
Also, thank you for that...I'm still worried though this isn't the proper place to hold this discussion and I'm sure there is already a thread out there about this.





I'm sure that the Sarghress will find new goals to achieve even after they defeat the Sharen, though for now they gotta work on achieving that first goal. They're kicking ass, but gotta keep it up and focus on the prize! }:3

Quain expressed an interest in returning to the surface to adventure once more, and Ariel wants to see the overworld again too, so perhaps retaking the overworld will be their next goal. If not, still plenty to do in the underworld.
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Re: Which clan would you be part of? (Year 1114 edition)

Postby Sy'rasri » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:51 am

Durlyn Val'Sarghress wrote:I'm sure that the Sarghress will find new goals to achieve even after they defeat the Sharen, though for now they gotta work on achieving that first goal. They're kicking ass, but gotta keep it up and focus on the prize! }:3

Quain expressed an interest in returning to the surface to adventure once more, and Ariel wants to see the overworld again too, so perhaps retaking the overworld will be their next goal. If not, still plenty to do in the underworld.


As I stated before, it is highly possible that not everyone will be on board for that?
Maybe a few will want to take control of Chel and run it in a Sarghress manner?
Maybe others won't want to leave Chel?
Others might feel put out, figuring that the clan would stay in the underground and solidify their power.
Others might upset that they lost friends and loved ones and than Quain won't even stay.
The point is that these are drow and it is amazing that Quain has managed to keep them together this long, but she knows, Kel knows, everyone knows that if there isn't a solidified, constant goal in front of the Sarghress clan the possibility of splintering goes through the roof.
The question is "What is that goal?" and then "Is everyone going to want that?"
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Re: Which clan would you be part of? (Year 1114 edition)

Postby I'wyce Sol » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:59 am

Sy'rasri wrote:
Vazeron1 wrote:I'm not quite sure... I think there is perhaps more bonds holding the clan together than one might think, but of course that's mere speculation. I guess we'll just wait and see :3


The bonds, I think, aren't holding the clan together. Rather they hold the merc groups together. Thus, a Wolf Fang might not feel loyalty towards Quill, just as a Highland Raider won't feel loyalty to Rosof. At the moment, the loyal to your commander is split with Quin and the clan, who has in a way become one in the same (Quin = clan, even if she wishes that wasn't so). The question is what would happen if Quin and a commander have a disagreement or they (the commanders) see a side of her they don't like. Will it split the groups into piece (aka, those loyal to Quin, those loyal to possible profits, those loyal to their commander).

If you have little connection with your commander, many might just decided that they're group those they have fought beside for ages matter more than some distant commander or even Quin herself. I mean, life and death situation tend to build strong bridges with those around you, rather than some distant figure.

Another point is that what will happen to the clan once the battle is done? I'm sure some commanders are certain that Quin will rethink her opinion and become Empress. While others are counting down the days to leaving Chel. While others still are waiting for Quin to order the conquest of all of Chel. Depending on what she decides, commanders, soliders and others will find something that they don't like.

It is easier to bring people together against a single problem than it is to keep them together over many.
Drow just take that saying and make it Quin's worst nightmare.
I seem to be in a mood to write a lot, sorry.




one factor that you forgot are the Sullys (im not even gonna try to spell it @ this hour).
Quain did tell Ariel " [Ashie] can have the crown, and may it bite her in her fat ass..." (paraphrased)
so i think the most likely split would come in the form of an organized reshuffle of the Sully's and Sarhg Pecking order once Quain leaves (or dies).
eg: Civilian clan members, farmers, blacksmiths etc Remain Sahrgess exclusively, while the wolf riders are assigned to escort duties for the Sullys, the Raiders, might return to the merc ways, the Fallen Legion might become the De facto (independent) "CIA" of Chel , but I see the Dutanvir survivors and VAL Sharen definitely leaving the faction.

as for the command of the Sahrgs,- Mel doesn't care about anything (except her kids and her freedom), as noted in her convo with the Vel Sharen sisters,
Kelnoz is a male,so he cannot take formal lead until HIS plan with the School Masters come to play,
Ariel obviously, and i think Sarnel is a HUGE CHEKOV GUN in this respect.
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Re: Which clan would you be part of? (Year 1114 edition)

Postby Raziel » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:44 am

Vazeron1 wrote:
Raziel wrote:
Vazeron1 wrote:I wouldn't necessarily think that the Sarghress would necessarily fall apart after the war; it entirely depends on how ideologically motivated its members are to a Val-less state. If anything, I would say that they either have a very selfish form of anarchist or socialist mindset depending on what state they plan to form if they win (i.e, they make sure everyone in their clan is cared for, and do help the commoners to a fairly significant extent), but as we haven't seen their economic policies beyond their raiding/trade network, I don't think that we can really determine it as of yet. Essentially, given the wide spread of Sarghress territory, I'd say they have a good chance of actually winning a war, but only time will tell how well they manage Chel after. I think they will probably stay together, as the clan isn't entirely militaristic, and with Quain leaving, their largest warmonger will be gone. I don't see Kel'noz, Mel, or Ariel just letting the clan fall apart that quickly.

Kel or Ariel yes, Mel, not so much. ^^;



Point about Mel, but she has shown interest in being a relatively pacifistic leader before *too lazy to find actual page*.
On the other hand, she doesn't exactly have a great deal of loyalty to Quain or the clan.

Besides the point about Mel's loyalty, the fact that she wants to be a pacifist leader in a warrior clan of mercenary's is just a total contradiction. ^^
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Re: Which clan would you be part of? (Year 1114 edition)

Postby Shoedrinker » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:03 am

Due the lack of a Tei'kaliath option, I choose to cast my vote in favor of the Jie'yen clan, mainly because matriarch Shi'lua is an outspoken, elegant, beautiful and sexy lady. And because this character, Anjin, looks like a bald, asian martial artist-assassin drow version of a mixture of Alatriste and Iñigo Montoya with a goatee-like tattoo. What is not to like? 8)
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Re: Which clan would you be part of? (Year 1114 edition)

Postby Junglefowl26 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:49 pm

Kind of funny that the Jie'yen got a t-shirt while the Bhalv didn't when the Bhalv are a lot more popular, judging by the pole and comments around the forums.

Point about Mel, but she has shown interest in being a relatively pacifistic leader before

Actually, I think that why was her explaining why she wasn't interested in being Illharess: her get along with everyone style would put most of the clan out of work.

Based off Snad's comments and Mel's plans for Ariel, I think it fair to assume that Mel does not care about politics in the least.

Though she did reference having followers before, so maybe when she was arrested and her followers abandoned her or were killed she became disillusioned with the idea of accomplishing something as a leader.
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