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Chapter 54 : page 132

Re: Chapter 54 : page 132

Postby Junglefowl26 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:33 pm

Moric wrote:
MagicSkyshark wrote:Got a strange feeling that all this should not be happenin'.

Kyo'nne has everyone's attention, and is using Spellsong to boot. It's a cheap ploy, but it works.

I do wonder how much of the legion suddenly supporting the challenge is genuine and if any of it is because of the mind effecting abilities of spellsong.

Then again, stupidity has never stopped anyone in the DT universe.

Nor in the real world.

Many leaders have killed their best subordinates precisely because they were too talented, and thus a potential threat.

Hard to work for a dictator, always risking killed for treasonous incompetence or treasonous competence.

Moric wrote:
Doom Chinchilla wrote:How the hell has Sang managed to go this far when she has such little control over the clan? It should have imploded long ago...

From what we've been told, it DID. Sang is holding the splintered and frayed ends together with the propagandistic equivalent of baling wire and duct tape.

Yeah, details are scarce, but from what glimpses we get, it seems a lot of the clan has died or quit, probably forming many splinter factions.

It might be that this army is all that is left of the once might Sarghress.

Moric wrote:
Doom Chinchilla wrote:I no longer have any faith on the survival of the Sarghess clan... They are nothing without Quain's sheer power keeping them under control...

As is, yes, they are doomed. There are about four scenarios that I can see them survive somewhat, were it not for the story narrative.

Less Quain's strength and more her charisma and vision I believe. Still, the clan did kill her in the end...truth be told, the Sarghress was always divided by many factions, united primarily by their hatred of the Sharen. With the Sharen defeated...well, the Sarghs really fell victim to their own success I think.

Moric wrote:
Doom Chinchilla wrote:I guess drow just can't be free and equal... they need an overwhelming overlord to keep them subjugated to prevent them from committing mass suicide... I guess that's the reason Snad is doing so well: stupid, delusional drow destroy themselves, smart, self-aware drow resign themselves to be slaves...

The conflicting sociological pressures of the Chelian civilization are a marvel in their own right.

Yet, as a historian, I have to a say what we see here is not unusual. Many ancient historians saw history as a cycle of empires - they rise, they have a golden age, they decay, and they fall...and it all starts up again.
"The empire, long united, must divide. Long divided, it must unite. Thus it has ever been." - Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

Things always look so apocalyptic during the fall...but in the end, there are always survivors to pick up and try again next cycle.




Moric wrote:
Irae Maeviir wrote:What happened to the Sarghress is what will happen to the entire drow society if Vals are removed. Without a strong leader, someone nobody in their right mind would dare to attack, then it all boils down to "Why do I have to listen to you? You are no different than me, in fact I'm probably a better leader".

Correct. Without a common benignity and restraint between ruler and ruled, it always ends with the cruelest, most depraved, and murderous despot on top, paranoid and psychotic enforcers below, a swarm of starving proles at the bottom, and a whole lot of rotting corpses everywhere. Always.


Always there must be a balance - a balance of power between ruling factions, and a balance between the rights of the citizens and the functioning of the government.

While I criticize her rule more than most here, I think Diva understood this. Thus always a delicate balance was maintained between the clans, and between Vals and commoners where the Vals had wealth and power but avoided antagonizing the commoners too much. But her daughters grasped for too much power and disrupted that balance, thus starting the dominoes that lead to the current situation.

Moric wrote:
Najah wrote:Look at all those glares for attacking Kyo and not answering the challenge right away.

Yup.

"In wolf culture, we call that a dick move."

Moric wrote:
SzordrinZaphresz wrote:
Doom Chinchilla wrote:How the hell has Sang managed to go this far when she has such little control over the clan? It should have imploded long ago...


Sang is a greedy, ambitious, cowardly opportunist. She's been holding out the Vals as some kind of boogeymen and stealing the credit for victories that far more competent commanders have rightfully won, behind their backs, of course.

Kyo has just called her out on it, and she's showing how right Kyo is. If she doesn't make a show out of this fight, the clan's going to turn on her pretty damn fast, including all those commanders she's been short-changing.

Nah - Sang is quite competent, and not cowardly if you take into account (I believe still canon) Battlefield Engineers. Sure, she's a bitch and an opportunist, but she IS Drowolath after all.

Yeah - I mean, she did tackle a giant advanced war golem by herself. I don't think she lacks courage - if she is hesitating to agree to this challenge, I think it is because she sees it as beneath her dignity rather than a fear of losing (plus, winning against a half-dead man looks bad, and losing looks worse...)

Also - yay, Battlefield engineers reference - high five!

Moric wrote:
Junglefowl26 wrote:Nice dodge on Kyo's part. A singer side stepping a veteran warrior, how embarrassing.

Choreography has its benefits.

XD

Time for dance fighting!

Moric wrote:
Junglefowl26 wrote:And can't fight? Kyo has a cannon for a face.

It wouldn't be honored by the rank and file nearly as well as a known Sarghress commander with centuries of leadership experience.

An excellent point.

Moric wrote:
Junglefowl26 wrote:...Come to think of it, maybe Kyo should have challenged Sang.

She's a true Val'Illhar'dro. Death before breaking a nail!

*wee*

Moric wrote:
Junglefowl26 wrote:One shot to kill Sang - might be all they need, because who would the legion follow then?
..but what does happen then? I don't expect that Val-haters to suddenly go "Well, I guess Vals are ok then"and fall into line under Ariel, and there is still the issue of the alliance with the other clans and the consequences of breaking that...

Next highest commander takes charge by default - Mablevi. We don't know what he'll do, but if Ariel guarantees that he can be shirtless even at formal events, he may be sold.

*lol* You are on a role Moric.

But yeah, I wonder what Madlevi would decide when he has to decide, rather than falling back on following orders.

Durlyn Val'Sarghress wrote:Maybe Kyo is more athletic than she looks these days? OR maybe its meant to hint that Sang isn't as prolific a warrior as her followers might think she is? Like maybe she's been slacking off since she took power and her skills aren't what they used to be? "shrugs"

Both possible.

Plus, I suppose Kyo probably got some combat training during her time with the Nids, even if her main role was as a diplomat. I mean, she did learn to Fus Roh Dah over the timeskip. I bet Shodun taught her....

Durlyn Val'Sarghress wrote:This is a tricky situation...As Kyo said, Kel is one of the Nine Masters of Orthorbbae and shouldn't be underestimated, if anyone can take down Sang despite his current shape, its him. However, if Ariel showed up in time, could she serve as his substitute? Or would Sang try to prevent such a thing?

Substituting is common in duels in a lot of ficition but I don't remember such things happening in drowtales. Though I suppose Ariel could do her own challenge...

...You know, I bet Quill would have a decent chance against Sang, if she was more willing to fight Sarghress....

Durlyn Val'Sarghress wrote:P.S. does Mablevi agree with the troops OR does he simply understand that the leader of the Sarghress turning down a challenge will look bad no matter his own opinion of upholding honor codes and what not.

We know so little about his character it is hard to say.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 132

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:02 am

Junglefowl26 wrote:
Moric wrote:
Doom Chinchilla wrote:I guess drow just can't be free and equal... they need an overwhelming overlord to keep them subjugated to prevent them from committing mass suicide... I guess that's the reason Snad is doing so well: stupid, delusional drow destroy themselves, smart, self-aware drow resign themselves to be slaves...

The conflicting sociological pressures of the Chelian civilization are a marvel in their own right.

Yet, as a historian, I have to a say what we see here is not unusual. Many ancient historians saw history as a cycle of empires - they rise, they have a golden age, they decay, and they fall...and it all starts up again.
"The empire, long united, must divide. Long divided, it must unite. Thus it has ever been." - Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

Things always look so apocalyptic during the fall...but in the end, there are always survivors to pick up and try again next cycle.


The suicidal stupidity of the drow goes quite beyond that... if the Romans were drow they would have self-destroyed before conquering the Lazio.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 132

Postby Moric » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:43 am

Junglefowl26 wrote: (plus, winning against a half-dead man looks bad, and losing looks worse...)

Image

...I just had to...
(For those who don't get it: scene is from the movie The Princess Bride. It's better than than the name.)
Last edited by Moric on Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 132

Postby Koodi » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:57 am

I just hope we get to see Kel do something awesome, I feel like I still haven't seen him do enough badassery. I mean, he's my favorite DT character out of any that still live, but he's been flagged for death for so many pages I'm not emotionally invested at all, so I just hope to get something cool out of this situation...
Also there better not be a cut back to Ariel now, goddamnit. I don't want to see her, I want to see Kel being awesome! XD
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 132

Postby Berserk Knight » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:49 am

Airship explodes, tower crumbles, rocks fall, everyone d...oh, Kel put up a wall (with a Sang sized hole in it for some reason :3) to protect everyone nearby (minus Sang) and is still standing, while Sang is crushed.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 132

Postby Mizu » Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:41 am

Man, Sang is really bad at leading the clan. No wonder so many people had to die or completely drop off the radar for her to finally get the top spot. Saying it is currently held together by duct-tape is an insult to duct-tape, its more like it is held together by the adhesive they use on post it notes.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 132

Postby Dybad » Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:34 am

Was Sang always this much of rotten scum ? As as I can tell, these traits almost never shown in any way (not even hints) in the long history of the Sargress clan. Was she hiding her cards that well all this time ? Did she lose her head to greed when the idea to rule the clan ignited her imagination ? Or was she just victim of the new arc's narrative ?

She's behaving so much and so spontaneously like the typical Neutral Evil bandit here it feels like she was kindapped by Snadya's faction and replaced with a Jaal clone impersonator tasked with methodically shattering what little unity may remain in the aftermatch of Quain's death.

Pretty sure Snad would have done just that if Khakess was still around.

By the way, anyone knows what became of the superpowerful sentient demon who ate her ? It didn't seem anywhere as subtle or good in camouflage/infiltration. Surely, such a flashy monstruousity could not wander the districts unnoticed ?
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 132

Postby Irae Maeviir » Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:02 am

Dybad wrote:By the way, anyone knows what became of the superpowerful sentient demon who ate her ? It didn't seem anywhere as subtle or good in camouflage/infiltration. Surely, such a flashy monstruousity could not wander the districts unnoticed ?

That is a good question, what happened to that demon? Because they talk about Koil being dead, but because she wasn't able to hold the clan together rather than because a demon ate her whole. What also bothers me a bit is that Chel is worse than Felde right now. How is that even possible? Even if the Sargs imploded, they wouldn't destroy the whole city, at most only the Sarg controlled territory.

Unless... the Anti-Val faction went nuts... and attacked all Val clans, with Koil being unable to keep them in check. And when she tried to put her foot down, they just cut the foot, and the head and put it on the pile with the other Val heads.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 132

Postby Moric » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:55 pm

1. Sang is a capable and savvy military leader. Sang is also a great administrator. She is also adept in manipulating one on one situations, and can manage intimate groups. Large, public audiences have a dynamic of their own, and require a different skill set. As such, so long as standard military discipline is held, she is firmly in charge of the situation.

2. Kyo'nne is using Spellsong, which is something like a mass suggestion spell. She is also practiced at mundane public speaking and mass communication. Now using her Spellsong to make the Legion surrender would be too absurd to work, but duels have happened before; so this can be managed. Once Sang is defeated, Kyo'nne could then rebuild the narrative.

3. So long as the Leale-demon is free, she would be hunted. Not very easy, as she is so huge and powerful, and most of the Sarghress sealers went to the Dutan'vir. Were she still able to occupy a body, which may be a stretch, she could hide out in the ruins of the Temple District.

4. Chel vs Felde; Felde has sustained a couple of minutes of random shelling, some flooding in low-lying areas, the destruction of two major bridges, localized destruction near Snadhya'rune's Tower, stray demons floating around the battlefield, and demon-possessed zombies rising from the depths. Chel'el'Sussoloth has never recovered from the Nidraa'chal War, has sustained 15 years of pitched battles in the streets, involving every sort of mana art and demonic summoning, has been plunged into months of starvation and desperate fights over scraps of anything marginally edible, the demon god incident, and apparently two Sarghress civil wars. In all, Chel can't be much better than Char right now.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 132

Postby PSadlon » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:06 pm

I think Sang sees she's losing her base in panel 3.

As unlikely as it is for Kel to win much less survive I would be better for the clan if he did become the leader. He's far more qualified than Ariel and Sang and obviously more stable than Mel, Quain, or Sang ever were. It might not be as interesting for the story because he basically ends a harem protag but it would be better for the clan.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 132

Postby Moric » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:44 pm

PSadlon wrote:I think Sang sees she's losing her base in panel 3.

As unlikely as it is for Kel to win much less survive I would be better for the clan if he did become the leader. He's far more qualified than Ariel and Sang and obviously more stable than Mel, Quain, or Sang ever were. It might not be as interesting for the story because he basically ends a harem protag but it would be better for the clan.


This is DrowTales, thus grimderp is the default. Provided that Kel'noz miraculously killed Sang in the duel, was declared Ill'haror (linguistic invention on my part), he would be challenged by a half dozen female wanna-be's daily, because of masculine weakness. He'd also be propositioned by at least two dozen females for stud services daily. There's just not enough time in the day to do all that and manage the Clan business, even with Niende's help.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 132

Postby Durlyn Val'Sarghress » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:52 pm

Dybad wrote:Was Sang always this much of rotten scum ? As as I can tell, these traits almost never shown in any way (not even hints) in the long history of the Sargress clan. Was she hiding her cards that well all this time ? Did she lose her head to greed when the idea to rule the clan ignited her imagination ? Or was she just victim of the new arc's narrative ?

She's behaving so much and so spontaneously like the typical Neutral Evil bandit here it feels like she was kindapped by Snadya's faction and replaced with a Jaal clone impersonator tasked with methodically shattering what little unity may remain in the aftermatch of Quain's death.

Pretty sure Snad would have done just that if Khakess was still around.

By the way, anyone knows what became of the superpowerful sentient demon who ate her ? It didn't seem anywhere as subtle or good in camouflage/infiltration. Surely, such a flashy monstruousity could not wander the districts unnoticed ?



I will admit I am curious as to whether or not it was always planned for Sang to go turncoat, or if it was an idea Kern and Kite came up with relatively recently. Regardless, it WAS established that she was tortured and dismembered by the Sharen before Quain had her arms and limbs replaced with the metal prosthetics she has now, so MAYBE when the Sarghress and Sharen were forced to declare a truce for the sake of mutual protection against Snad's forces, as well as for the good of Chel as a whole, something snapped inside Sang and turned her against Quain, someone she DID honestly seem to view as a friend in the earliest chapters, coming across as being the friendliest of the Devesses at the time. So either she's the best damn actress amongst the Sargh leadership, in contrast to Suube who wore her discontent on her sleeves at all times, OR she lost faith in Quain and betrayed the clan because she cared more about getting revenge than anything else.

Only problem with this theory however is that supposedly Sang is in league with Snad now right? So if that were the case then her siding with Snad after siding against Quain because Quain called a truce with Zala to prevent mutually assured destruction would be pretty hypocritical and nonsensical if her motivation was "Kill all Sharen no matter the cost"...So maybe Sang is just a sellout? And her troops have no idea who she's really working for? "shrugs"

Regarding the demon...Who knows? It could have gone into hiding anywhere in the underworld by now, utilizing Laelae's Fallen Legionaire skills, and if it can still shape-shift like Khaless it would be even trickier to find. Worst case scenario, it retained enough sentience to disguise itself perfectly and incorporate itself into the Sarghress chain of command, something that would be much easier to do now since most of the clan's sealers sided with either the Dutanvir or Ariel's Wolf Pack, so there wouldn't necessarily be enough skilled demon hunters left to be able to see through a cleverly disguised demon. If so, Sang may not be the biggest obstacle they have to overcome in order to reunite the Sarghress (again, assuming Demon Laelae didn't just escape after Khaless' destruction or wasn't killed by someone during the time skip...Though I feel like such a creature wouldn't have been introduced at all if that was the last we would ever see of it).
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 132

Postby evilmike » Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:55 pm

Moric wrote:This is DrowTales, thus grimderp is the default. Provided that Kel'noz miraculously killed Sang in the duel, was declared Ill'haror (linguistic invention on my part), he would be challenged by a half dozen female wanna-be's daily, because of masculine weakness. He'd also be propositioned by at least two dozen females for stud services daily. There's just not enough time in the day to do all that and manage the Clan business, even with Niende's help.



You forget the wanna-be's would specify sex duels, so regardless Kel would be doing basically stud duty all-day, while his Capable Advisors ran the clan minutae.

Note to Kern: DAYDREAM MATERIAL HERE BOI

*wee*
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 132

Postby Mizu » Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:42 am

Dybad wrote:Was Sang always this much of rotten scum ? As as I can tell, these traits almost never shown in any way (not even hints) in the long history of the Sargress clan. Was she hiding her cards that well all this time ? Did she lose her head to greed when the idea to rule the clan ignited her imagination ? Or was she just victim of the new arc's narrative ?

She's behaving so much and so spontaneously like the typical Neutral Evil bandit here it feels like she was kindapped by Snadya's faction and replaced with a Jaal clone impersonator tasked with methodically shattering what little unity may remain in the aftermatch of Quain's death.

Pretty sure Snad would have done just that if Khakess was still around.

By the way, anyone knows what became of the superpowerful sentient demon who ate her ? It didn't seem anywhere as subtle or good in camouflage/infiltration. Surely, such a flashy monstruousity could not wander the districts unnoticed ?



That gives me an idea, maybe Snadhya has a new freezer with a very short drow on a slab in it.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 132

Postby Moric » Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:04 am

Mizu wrote:That gives me an idea, maybe Snadhya has a new freezer with a very short drow on a slab in it.

I think that Sang could actually be an earlier model.
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