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Chapter 54 : page 129

Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Junglefowl26 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:15 am

You know, Ariel doesn't have any way to communicate with the rest of her troops. Will this even end the fighting?

Also, is Kor being literal and Sang has other sons, or is he being metaphorical about being a son of the Sarghress or something?

Basileus_Ioannis wrote:Wouldn't it be the sheet if Sang, following some unseen puppet master, DOES try to have Ariel and her followers executed, and THE NIDS come in and rescue them? o_O Because the Sangress are being used to apply pressure on the elusive Ariel and company, and when the quarry surrenders, the Sangress are no longer required. Being anti-Vals, they would then have no value to Empress Snadhya whatsoever. I pity the Sangress at that point, because while the dragon might have designs on Ariel, the commoners filling the ranks of that clan will be worth somewhere between jack and sheet in her eyes *upset* Meanwhile, separate Ariel from Kel'noz, and use Mel to wear her down, and Snads might be able to get her to start seeing things her way (and not the Sangress way, because "you know they tried to kill you dearie" :3 a totally valid comeback would be "so did you dearie" *bigsmile* and Mel would be like "when was the last time you bathed?" *hmmm* and Ariel would shoot her one of these --> *rolleyes* )

That doesn't seem likely to me.

For one, Snad might be a Val, and draws a lot of her followers from the Val class, but her support is still based off anger with the current system. The Sarghress anti-vals would fit with that, and I could see her smooth talking them into supporting her - remember when she took off her crown to put Ariel at ease and talked a lot about how she was totally supporting the Sarghress and stuff? I could see mobs respond very well to that.
Plus she probably needs them to be the iron fist of her regime. Particularly if she is planning a war with another city-state, as was speculated two chapters ago.

Plus, I am not sure how the Nids could stop them. The local Nids were taking heavy losses before the Sarghs saved them.

Tempestfury wrote:... We still have an airship set to explode, and a demon gate on the verge of collapse.

Somehow, I don't think Ariel is going to be in chains for long.

...I dunno, I don't see how either of those things would be devastating only to one side here.

Besides, I thought the few remaining nurse demons shut down the gate, which was pretty damaged anyway.

Ardan Styyx wrote:
Junglefowl26 wrote:That's life for you - sometimes you lose. You roll the dice, and you get a snake eyes. You make the sacrifices and take the risks, and get nothing in return.

And accepting that it was a waste, that it was for nothing, is the hardest thing of all. But it can be necessary. The sunk cost fallacy has a siren call, but it is a fallacy for a reason.


That's not life. That's a comic. You know, the kind of stuff where good guys beat the bad guys eventually...

There's still hope for a twist in the desperate situation thanks to the demon gate+zombies+airship nuke, but those stuck inside the tower are unaware of that. We'll see.

In the meanwhile, all this Sarghress inner struggle is kind of boring, and seems totally out of the place WRT the big picture. I thought Ariel and co. were beyond this notion of "clan". Surprising how it comes back on the table while a good bunch of the Wolfpack is composed of non-Sarghress who probably don't give a shit about who is leading the Mercs. And I am not even talking about the Mimians who probably couldn't care less if they were still alive.

What's really at stake since chapter 51 is which model of society will prevail in the end : the Wolfpack-type trans-clan communities or the trans-clan demon-infested Nids. In both cases, the notion of clan or Val are not relevant anymore.

So yes, getting the Mimians slaughtered, Felde ravaged and countless side casualties for, at the end, a question of who is leading the Sarghress is a f.....g waste. At her level, Ariel is probably taking the only sensible decision is this situation, but I think we really miss the point here. The point being beating the Nids. Not what's left of the pathetic excuse of a clan that was the Sarghress.

Meanwhile, in the 9th tower of Orthorbaae...

Fair point.

About the good guys beating the bad eventually - who knows, maybe Ariel's salvation will be political rather than military. If she could just find the right people to get on her side...

As for the other stuff....yeah I have to admit, it does seem out of place. Especially since we know these Sarghs were sent by the alliance of Val clans rather than acting on their own initiative, so the anti-val stuff rings hollow. It would have made more sense for Kor to argue that Ariel's rebellion had put everyone in a bad spot, where either they had to fight Ariel, or fight everyone else for Ariel, and that they chose the fight that was winnable.
Certainly it would given a stronger reason for Ariel to believe that surrender is an option at this point.

Or they could, you know, have escaped as far away as they could...

Surrendering to Snadhya is never an acceptable choice...

Or fought on the surface, where they could have used the airship to its best potential, and maybe at a friendly location like the Highlands colony to have additional reinforcements.
Course, I do understand why they went with the plan they did - hindsight is 20/20 and all that.

The problem is besides from Ariel there is no benefit to taking the rest of them prisoner and letting them go free is an idiotic idea. The smart thing to do is execute all of them there, instead of wasting resources and personnel to transport them some where else to be executed.

I am going to strongly disagree with that.

Baring a crippling supply shortage, it is almost always better to take prisoners - a cornered enemy is by far the most dangerous, and can go done taking a lot of your guys with them, or even pull off an upset. A surrendered enemy - not so much. And if they surrender and then you kill them...well, then people in the future won't surrender to you. Or won't accept your surrender if things don't go well for you.

Besides, regardless of morals or hateful rhetoric or anything like that - cold blooding killing has a profound psychological effect, noticeably different from killing in the heat of combat. Soldiers that engage in such acts tend to have lower moral and are more likely to desert.

Plus, Ariel's little coalition of colonies is still out there and the wolfpack would make good hostages.

Ariel seems to have learned the last lesson of Quain'tana, too bad she never learned the first lesson, never let your enemies live.

....Except, you know, when Quain made peace with the Sharen even as she was close to wiping them out. Or the time that she allied with another Sharen...or the fact that Quain's entire inner circle of friends and advisors consists of former enemies she has defeated, especially Rosof.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Thrair » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:40 am

Tempestfury wrote:... We still have an airship set to explode, and a demon gate on the verge of collapse.

Somehow, I don't think Ariel is going to be in chains for long.


Oh shit, that's right. I forgot about the gate. Feck.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Mizu » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:45 am

I am sort of disappointed in Ariel's character... she has remained reactive/passive to the bitter end, and she has failed to leave a mark... She's more like an spectator, a POV character watching the self-destruction of the drow race. Even the defense of Machike against the aircraft, the capture of the aircraft in Sa'shi, the plan to subdue the colonies and this last desperate assault on Felde were all Kel'noz's plans...


Truly she is her actual mother's daughter.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Ichi_Jigoku_Flujo » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:52 am

Mizu wrote:
I am sort of disappointed in Ariel's character... she has remained reactive/passive to the bitter end, and she has failed to leave a mark... She's more like an spectator, a POV character watching the self-destruction of the drow race. Even the defense of Machike against the aircraft, the capture of the aircraft in Sa'shi, the plan to subdue the colonies and this last desperate assault on Felde were all Kel'noz's plans...


Truly she is her actual mother's daughter.

Cept, Ariel never gave up, like Mel did. Ariel has never been truly "broken" cept the time all the way back when Faen ran away, that is the closest we got to Ariel being nearly completely broken.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Moric » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:54 am

Mizu wrote:Truly she is her actual mother's daughter.

Ah...no.

I don't see defeat in her face. I see it in Kor'maril, but not Ariel.

What this means in the next few panels will be interesting.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby sunhawk » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:55 am

This chapter is called Unity.

Any moment now. All the remaining Sarghress will be in the tower. While the Feldians and Imperials are outside dealing with Night of the Living Owl. There is also one more chapter to go.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Ichi_Jigoku_Flujo » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:34 am

sunhawk wrote:This chapter is called Unity.

Any moment now. All the remaining Sarghress will be in the tower. While the Feldians and Imperials are outside dealing with Night of the Living Owl. There is also one more chapter to go.

Huh... That's right, it IS called unity, isn't it?
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Moric » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:39 am

Does Sang sic her mastiff/wolf on Ariel? Does Ariel absorb it to achieve some quasi-were-dire-wolf-of-doom mode?

[edit] Would Ariel in werewolf form have 2 or 8 breasts? Would Faen be jealous for not seeing? Did I just open up a new DT fetish?
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Tempestfury » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:09 pm

Junglefowl26 wrote:
Tempestfury wrote:... We still have an airship set to explode, and a demon gate on the verge of collapse.

Somehow, I don't think Ariel is going to be in chains for long.

...I dunno, I don't see how either of those things would be devastating only to one side here.

Besides, I thought the few remaining nurse demons shut down the gate, which was pretty damaged anyway.


Pretty sure that the nurse demons were trying to shut down the gate, but it's not exactly hard, and the collapsing gate kinda disrupted the process.

Plus, I didn't say it's going to be devastating to only one side... but let's look at the situation here. The Wolfpack is basically down and out, whilst the other Sarghs have full control of the situation. The exploding ship and the demon gate is just going to have a stronger effect on the Sarghs, simply because there is more of them to be effected.

Plus it also looked like a lot of them were in that main hall area? Which means their all clumped together, and can be hurt by the big boom.


Junglefowl26 wrote:
Ariel seems to have learned the last lesson of Quain'tana, too bad she never learned the first lesson, never let your enemies live.

....Except, you know, when Quain made peace with the Sharen even as she was close to wiping them out. Or the time that she allied with another Sharen...or the fact that Quain's entire inner circle of friends and advisors consists of former enemies she has defeated, especially Rosof.


Quite. Especially Rosof.

I mean, I don't think we can understate the effect that Rosof had on Quain. Teaching her the importance and significance of honour, and the respect it can earn. Not to mention he's the one that got the wolves for the Sarghs that ended up being so iconic and likely advantageous as well.
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