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Chapter 54 : page 129

Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Ichi_Jigoku_Flujo » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:57 am

Doom Chinchilla wrote:Or they could, you know, have escaped as far away as they could...

Surrendering to Snadhya is never an acceptable choice...

And you are suggesting Ariel abandon both Faen and the children to do so? Cause that would be what you are suggesting in this scenario.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Medrex » Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:11 pm

Ichi_Jigoku_Flujo wrote:While this is nice and all, there is two well very important things a lot on the forum seem to be glossing over, the Demon Zombie pokalipse below, and the soon to be large Airship boom! So this ain't going to play out like Ariel thinks it will play out. Also another note, perhaps another thought that is in Ariel's mind is well her "children" and Faen, cause well if she just "escaped", their safety would not be a guarantee.

Very true. Shit is about to hit the fan for everyone very quickly. With that in mind I can see the surrender as maybe Ariel and co getting on a slightly less violent standing with some of the Chel sarghs before things go so far south they wont have much choice but help each other.
plus it gives Ariel a chance to point at a giant terrifying demon apocalypse and a giant wide open nethergate, turn to Sang and say "the person you've been working with has shit that can do this in as many places as she can put them"
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby SzordrinZaphresz » Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:26 pm

This is unexpected, and ironically is the last lesson she learned from Quain herself.

"Sometimes, the enemy is just too strong... You stand-down, withdraw, bide your time, and then strike when their weakness is exposed."

Now, no matter what happens, this will not end well.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Moric » Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:31 pm

I think that I see what's going on.

Ariel has her question answered, is given the tactical situation, and has a reckless plan. That's what she does, after all.

She can't win this by trading casualties, even at a 10:1 ratio. Also, she has no desire to shed the blood of her (until recently) comrades. Thus, she needs to get to Sang and her captains.

Whether by dramatic rebuke or duel, or some other million-to-one gambit, Ariel is using this surrender.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Tainted Messiah » Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:59 pm

Doom Chinchilla wrote:How come nobody has mentioned how SANG IS ACTING AS SNADHYA'S PET DOG!!!!? PURGE ALL VALS MY ASS!!!!!

I give up... make the demon gate and exploding aircraft kill them all... those idiots don't deserve to live...


Ain't that the truth haha I mean come on even to the most casual observer some of them called themselves allies of Felde which Snadya a Vel completely controls... but yeah you guys keep on going with that eliminate all the Val's plan that is clearly not total hypocrisy or anything. XD

Ichi_Jigoku_Flujo wrote:
Doom Chinchilla wrote:Or they could, you know, have escaped as far away as they could...

Surrendering to Snadhya is never an acceptable choice...

And you are suggesting Ariel abandon both Faen and the children to do so? Cause that would be what you are suggesting in this scenario.


I am pretty sure Chinchilla was referring to when they had a working airship... could have literally just gone off to see the world rather they hash this crap out with Snadya who has them beat without even showing up.

Clearly not in Ariel's character to do that... but for most sane people that would of been a vastly preferable choice to this bloodbath which has all but wiped out the raiders, decimated Ariel's small group, and oh yeah caused a potential zombie apocalypse and really hasn't even seemed to put any real dents in the enemy forces.


And on that note I do understand Ariel/Kern's motivation for the surrender but in what world where Sang's forces were already following this group around attempting to kill them would you assume that a surrender wouldn't just result in everyone but Ariel and maybe Faen just being killed on the spot? after all they are a fairly rag tag group and hold no political value and 'honor' is not something I am sure is very high on Sang's list atm.

Kern has put alot of balls in the air atm in particular the impending airship explosion and gigantic unstable gate... going to be curious as to how he intends to play it all out.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Thrair » Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:37 pm

Calm thyselves, all. This is no mere defeat! If the legion strikes them down now, the wolfpack will become more powerful than they can imagine! Just as cake.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby GrantedWhim » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:26 pm

The problem is besides from Ariel there is no benefit to taking the rest of them prisoner and letting them go free is an idiotic idea. The smart thing to do is execute all of them there, instead of wasting resources and personnel to transport them some where else to be executed.

Ariel never seems to learn, this is exactly like her mistake of letting them get back on the airship in chapter 52.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Irae Maeviir » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:43 pm

GrantedWhim wrote:The problem is besides from Ariel there is no benefit to taking the rest of them prisoner and letting them go free is an idiotic idea. The smart thing to do is execute all of them there, instead of wasting resources and personnel to transport them some where else to be executed.

Ariel never seems to learn, this is exactly like her mistake of letting them get back on the airship in chapter 52.

Ariel seems to have learned the last lesson of Quain'tana, too bad she never learned the first lesson, never let your enemies live.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:57 pm

Tainted Messiah wrote:
Ichi_Jigoku_Flujo wrote:
Doom Chinchilla wrote:Or they could, you know, have escaped as far away as they could...

Surrendering to Snadhya is never an acceptable choice...

And you are suggesting Ariel abandon both Faen and the children to do so? Cause that would be what you are suggesting in this scenario.


I am pretty sure Chinchilla was referring to when they had a working airship... could have literally just gone off to see the world rather they hash this crap out with Snadya who has them beat without even showing up.


Pretty much this... Hell, i would have considered escaping to Mimaneid or elsewhere even before they got the airship...

But really, even now they should try to find a way to escape rather than surrender... Use the nether gate again. Collapse the tower as a distraction. Ask the Demon Nurses for escape tunnels (they still don't know they are dead). If anything else is lost, try to fly away carrying Octarya and Pelan in her arms... Surrendering means death and torture for all of them...

Hell, even fighting to the bitter end would be better than being captured now... this is the kind of situation in which Tzun Tzu advised: "The only chance of life lies in giving up all hope of it."

Tainted Messiah wrote:Clearly not in Ariel's character to do that... but for most sane people that would of been a vastly preferable choice to this bloodbath which has all but wiped out the raiders, decimated Ariel's small group, and oh yeah caused a potential zombie apocalypse and really hasn't even seemed to put any real dents in the enemy forces.


I think Kel'noz and Ash wouldn't have supported Ariel if she had chosen to escape, but I think most other colonists would have liked the idea of founding a colony as far from Chel as the mist-powered engines of the aircraft allowed (I don't think they could go far from the Sea of Mists...).

Well, if it were me, I would probably have blown Sang's legion to cinders and dropped a floating island on Felde before leaving, but Ariel and her core group of friends have been too indoctrinated to give up on the Sarghess...

Tainted Messiah wrote:and oh yeah caused a potential zombie apocalypse


You mention it as if it were a bad thing... To me, that is the only positive... KILL ALL DROW!!!

Tainted Messiah wrote:And on that note I do understand Ariel/Kern's motivation for the surrender but in what world where Sang's forces were already following this group around attempting to kill them would you assume that a surrender wouldn't just result in everyone but Ariel and maybe Faen just being killed on the spot? after all they are a fairly rag tag group and hold no political value and 'honor' is not something I am sure is very high on Sang's list atm.

Kern has put alot of balls in the air atm in particular the impending airship explosion and gigantic unstable gate... going to be curious as to how he intends to play it all out.


Ariel surrendering is an idiotic move on her part. She has nothing to bargain with: Sang's legion is winning, so they don't need to give her anything... Ariel's allies are useless as prisioners, so they will be killed, and Ariel will be executed as a PR show or handed to Snadhya to be used as a broodmare, quartered as punishment for destroying the ship, or both...

Luckily for Ariel, she can't surrender. Not really. The aircraft is going to blow up, the nether gate is out of control, the zombie apocalypse is raging out of the tower... it will soon become a chaotic getaway, nobody will have time to keep anybody in chains...

I am sort of disappointed in Ariel's character... she has remained reactive/passive to the bitter end, and she has failed to leave a mark... She's more like an spectator, a POV character watching the self-destruction of the drow race. Even the defense of Machike against the aircraft, the capture of the aircraft in Sa'shi, the plan to subdue the colonies and this last desperate assault on Felde were all Kel'noz's plans...
Last edited by Doom Chinchilla on Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Moric » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:55 pm

GrantedWhim wrote:The problem is besides from Ariel there is no benefit to taking the rest of them prisoner and letting them go free is an idiotic idea. The smart thing to do is execute all of them there, instead of wasting resources and personnel to transport them some where else to be executed.

Ariel never seems to learn, this is exactly like her mistake of letting them get back on the airship in chapter 52.

Nonsense! Ariel would be executed in great pomp and pageantry, or forced into a sucker's duel with Sang to cement her position.

The rest will be sorted into slave-stock, valuable hostages, and practice dummies for evisceration.

Of course this won't happen. Ariel looks determined, not broken.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Ichi_Jigoku_Flujo » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:11 am

Doom Chinchilla wrote:I am sort of disappointed in Ariel's character... she has remained reactive/passive to the bitter end, and she has failed to leave a mark... She's more like an spectator, a POV character watching the self-destruction of the drow race. Even the defense of Machike against the aircraft, the capture of the aircraft in Sa'shi, the plan to subdue the colonies and this last desperate assault on Felde were all Kel'noz's plans...

I will agree to disagree, cause a lot of people here are getting a bit RANTY here, so perhaps we should all dial it back a tad bit
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Ichi_Jigoku_Flujo » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:22 am

It's easy to shed blood as the easy way out as is running away, it takes a strong individual to to have the will and resolve to end the bloodshed to stand in what you believe in. That is something that NO ONE can challenge.

Ariel has always had a very strong resolve when it comes to well, she is one of few that despite their surroundings, has kept their resolve in a way where she will not take a life unless she has to.

That is quality that does make a good leader, yes she is impulsive at times, but she has formed bonds and bridges that will NEVER break unlike the whole backstabbing generation. She is part of the newer generation that WILL eventually win out against the old generation of thinking.

Standing by for what you believe in is not and SHOULD not be taken as a weakness or mistake, it should be taken as what it is, a strength.

What if Ariel ends up having to take over fully as leader of the Sarghress? Perhaps that might be what indeed happens. What if she finally stands up to those that tried to use her instead? Not as a Val-Sarghress, but as Ariel?
Last edited by Ichi_Jigoku_Flujo on Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:25 am

Ichi_Jigoku_Flujo wrote:It's easy to shed blood as the easy way out as is running away, it takes a strong individual to to have the will and resolve to end the bloodshed to stand in what you believe in. That is something that NO ONE can challenge.

Ariel has always had a very strong resolve when it comes to well, she is one of few that despite their surroundings, has kept their resolve in a way where she will not take a life unless she has to.

That is quality that does make a good leader, yes she is impulsive at times, but she has formed bonds and bridges that will NEVER break unlike the whole backstabbing generation. She is part of the newer generation that WILL eventually win out against the old generation of thinking.

Standing by for what you believe in is not and SHOULD not be taken as a weakness or mistake, it should be taken as what it is, a strength.


Even if she is going to get everybody who believed in her and followed her killed? Because I would considered "not getting all my followers killed" a minimum requirement to be good leader...
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Ichi_Jigoku_Flujo » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:34 am

Doom Chinchilla wrote:Even if she is going to get everybody who believed in her and followed her killed? Because I would considered "not getting all my followers killed" a minimum requirement to be good leader...

You are taking things at face value, without being able to see the fully picture, or the inner-thoughts of Ariel? This act of "surrender" proves that she is not like the rest, she will not kill a person without proper reason to. Something that well IS not a common thing in Chel also don't forget, Quillyate is still in the area, she will NOT let Sang kill Ariel or their group if she has anything to say about it.

Yes, the trait can be exploited, but Ariel has proven herself capable of coming out on top in most if not all those situations time and time again. Ariel is almost as tough as Quain herself, she is stubborn and won't just abandon her way of thinking

I mean sure survived having her WHOLE arm chopped off!(Thanks to her special trait mind you, but still.) Not many are capable of still going after something like that and still have the same beliefs.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 129

Postby Moric » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:01 am

Doom Chinchilla wrote:Even if she is going to get everybody who believed in her and followed her killed? Because I would considered "not getting all my followers killed" a minimum requirement to be good leader...

Option 1: Keep fighting and try to cut a path to Sang. Okay, even if she manages that, which is highly doubtful, and if she manages to kill Sang in battle, Ariel would just have 2-3000 angry drow bent on avenging Sang coming for her. The narrative remains - kill the Val.

Option 2: Run away. Um...too late for that.

Option 3: Surrender and give up. Okay, yes, lots of people die, lots more are enslaved, and Chel continues to circle the drain.

Option 4: Some wild gambit. Well, that's pretty much all Ariel has left. Yes, her surrendering is an aspect of it, though it might be a sham, or it might be a way to shame Sang into losing the narrative that the Sarghress are all bought into.

We only have the artwork to judge from. If Ariel said that as someone truly beaten, she would be drawn with a lowered head and stooped shoulders (see Kor'maril's posture). She does so standing tall, which means everything.
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