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chapter 54 : page 128

chapter 54 : page 128

Postby Kern » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:30 am

There's no winning in this fight.
Defeat Kormaril and Ariel just weaken her clan, get rid of a former ally, a kin. Its inner clan conflict and if Sang/Kor tell the truth, they are whats left of what could still lead.
Kill them, what happens? more factions. Lose, well that's going back in chain to serve a lady that seem to have made a deal with the nids.
There's also the bit that there is a real lack of communication in the last few years between the sarghress famillies. Could be intentional, could be miscommunication, could just be the wars cutting important message.
Kill a courrier, an important letter is lost and events unfold from that simple loss.
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Re: chapter 54 : page 128

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:01 am

Kor'maril didn't answer Ariel's last question... he knows the truth, and he can't admit it, because deep down he is ashamed that his mom screwed the clan out of ambition...

As for Ariel... the ones fighting and dying for her aren't just Sarghess, but members from many clans or no clan at all united by purpose and trust... those are the people she owes loyalty now, not to the traitorous renmants of a fractured clan that never really accepted her...
Last edited by Doom Chinchilla on Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: chapter 54 : page 128

Postby Whizzard » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:10 am

Ohohoh, wow. When Quain died, the clan was left leaderless. Koil isn't a leader. Sang isn't a leader. Even Rosof isn't a leader. They are merely lietunants. Middle (wo)men. Incapable of taking charge of everything. And they think Ariel's blood is going to change that. How sad. No wonder the clan is collapsing. They never realized that without Quain and with their leadership the clan can't survive.

Also, Kormaril cannot win because Ariel has the high ground! (because she's taller) 8P
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Re: chapter 54 : page 128

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:02 am

Kern wrote:Lose, well that's going back in chain to serve a lady that seem to have made a deal with the nids.


Sang still thinks that she can use Ariel?! Even after hunting her like an enemy? Even after Ariel makes an enemy out of Snadhya by taking the aircraft and attacking Felde?

Nah. There is no way anybody will buy a puppet leader now, and Snadhya wouldn't tolerate Ariel now that she has inflicted real losses on her... Sang wants to either sell her to Snadhya, or kill her to appease the anti-val faction...
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Re: chapter 54 : page 128

Postby wolfdancer95 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:31 am

Doom Chinchilla wrote:
Kern wrote:Lose, well that's going back in chain to serve a lady that seem to have made a deal with the nids.


Sang still thinks that she can use Ariel?! Even after hunting her like an enemy? Even after Ariel makes an enemy out of Snadhya by taking the aircraft and attacking Felde?

Nah. There is no way anybody will buy a puppet leader now, and Snadhya wouldn't tolerate Ariel now that she has inflicted real losses on her... Sang wants to either sell her to Snadhya, or kill her to appease the anti-val faction...


probably not as a puppet leader, but maybe to give the illusion that there is now stability and the 'rogue sarghress' have been dealt with without as much wonton violence as there has been. Ariel on her knees before her enemies, the Illharess, sends a message. just killing her wouldn't have that same effect.

and honestly, i feel that Snad still wants her, if not for who she is, but a damn baby factory.
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Re: chapter 54 : page 128

Postby Moric » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:43 am

wolfdancer95 wrote:
Doom Chinchilla wrote:
Kern wrote:Lose, well that's going back in chain to serve a lady that seem to have made a deal with the nids.


Sang still thinks that she can use Ariel?! Even after hunting her like an enemy? Even after Ariel makes an enemy out of Snadhya by taking the aircraft and attacking Felde?

Nah. There is no way anybody will buy a puppet leader now, and Snadhya wouldn't tolerate Ariel now that she has inflicted real losses on her... Sang wants to either sell her to Snadhya, or kill her to appease the anti-val faction...


probably not as a puppet leader, but maybe to give the illusion that there is now stability and the 'rogue sarghress' have been dealt with without as much wonton violence as there has been. Ariel on her knees before her enemies, the Illharess, sends a message. just killing her wouldn't have that same effect.

and honestly, i feel that Snad still wants her, if not for who she is, but a damn baby factory.

I would agree that a captured leader brought back in chains is a powerful message. The Romans loved this in particular.
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Re: chapter 54 : page 128

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:31 am

I think Ariel will be able to escape the Demon Zombie Apocalypse and Mana Nuke Aircraft using some sort of secret escape tunnel (Bae and maybe Kyo probably know about it, and if not, Chiri could probably sense any Nid using it to escape) but afterwards, they will have to escape far away. They have to rescue and gather the garrisons they left in the surface colonies before Chel sends punitive troops after them, and run, maybe to Mimaneid, maybe to Ama'varde, maybe to Sa'shi... And later, maybe even further away, to the Emberi islands... They don't have the power to fight back anymore...

Of course, maybe Chel won't be able to chase them... the Sarghess are as good as gone, Felde is likely to be destroyed (what happens when an uncontroled open nether gate is hit by a massive mana explosion? we will watch it soon, but I bet it won't be pretty...). That will shake things in Chel up, maybe rekindling the war...

And of course, you have the Hermionnes on the surface, those guys who know how to make firearms now. They are probably trying to build better cannons now, maybe even handgonnes, and afterwards they will march to the colonies and take them one by one, now that there aren't surface drow armies to stop them, and the Chelian ones will be to busy killing each other.

I expect the Illhar'do to bug out back to their own turf, and dig in there, bracing themselves for the shitstorm. The Kyorls may try to migrate to Vanaheim, maybe they will be allowed to try to build some kind of segregated city there... The Nals... I don't know how many of them are left over by now... most of them are mercenaries and hired employees who will leave when the money stops flowing... maybe they will try to take refuge in Ama'varde or Sa'shi or Nuqra'shareh...?

Of course, I expect the war to spill to Nuqra and Ama'varde, and even more demon shenanigans to happen...
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Re: chapter 54 : page 128

Postby SzordrinZaphresz » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:06 pm

"The clan wants Val blood..."

Right, Kor, that's why you and your mom, Sang, are working for the biggest Vals of all Snad and Zala!

And you think killing or chaining up Ariel will change that?

Just what lies has Sang been feeding you?
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Re: chapter 54 : page 128

Postby Doom Chinchilla » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:10 pm

SzordrinZaphresz wrote:"The clan wants Val blood..."

Right, Kor, that's why you and your mom, Sang, are working for the biggest Vals of all Snad and Zala!

And you think killing or chaining up Ariel will change that?

Just what lies has Sang been feeding you?


He's just an hypocrite...
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Re: chapter 54 : page 128

Postby Hellsion » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:45 pm

TAKE HIM DOWN!
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Re: chapter 54 : page 128

Postby Koodi » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:36 pm

"We let the leader, who was keeping our clan together, die. Now our clan is falling apart and it's all your fault!!"
Solid logic in use, I see! Especially considering they didn't want Ariel to lead - and she didn't. They had Chel under their control and everything but still couldn't keep things together. They messed up badly, and now very conveniently they are blaming everything else but themselves.
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Re: chapter 54 : page 128

Postby Junglefowl26 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:56 pm

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

Seriously though, it does seem like some outside force cut communication between Machtike and Chel, causing resentment between the two branches of the clan to build up over time.

I am guessing Snad, because I am not sure who else would or could be doing this, though even then I am still confused about her plan - for 3 years, cut off communication, but in no other way move against Machtike, then send an invitation to make Ariel leader of the Sarghress, then blow up the colony and start a war if she refuses? What is Snad playing at here?
(Also, again I am surprised the communication interdiction was so successful - it isn't that far from Chel to Machtike. You think someone would have checked things out personally. And it was a trading hub. And we see there are lots of immigrants from every clan, so they should have brought some news or rumors with them.)
I really wonder what would have happened had Ariel just agreed to go on the airship. Even assuming the offer was genuine and not a trap, it sounds like putting her in charge would be as politically tricky as killing her.

Anyone else get the feeling that Koil's heart really isn't into this? This is someone who got adopted by Quain purely as a sign of respect for how badass he is, and yet Ariel is fighting him evenly, even winning. Ariel is a skilled warrior, but I don't think she is that good. Plus, his arguments are all over the place, and he seems to give up on each one easily.

It is like he is just doing this because he is ordered to, and is just repeating the justifications he has heard others gives - that he tries to believe them to feel better about his actions, but deep down he really doesn't.

Oh no - Ariel's spear. Man, she always keeps losing it and has to beat people with her fists.
Last edited by Junglefowl26 on Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: chapter 54 : page 128

Postby Ardan Styyx » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:06 pm

A clan structure without Vals... a bit like a monarchy without a monarch. What could possibly go wrong?
Seriously the anti-val movement meant the END of the clan(s). Trying to keep it standing while suppressing its very principles was absurd from the beginning. Baliir solution could have worked, but obviously the common Sargrhess grunt is not enough politically mature to understand such concepts.

The wolf pack is so far the only trans-clan structure which proved to be working. A shame they are on the verge of destruction by a bunch of short sighted, self-destructive imbeciles
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Re: chapter 54 : page 128

Postby Tempestfury » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:53 pm

Kern wrote:Kill a courrier, an important letter is lost and events unfold from that simple loss.


For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the message was lost.
For want of a message the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.


Junglefowl26 wrote:Seriously though, it does seem like some outside force cut communication between Machtike and Chel, causing resentment between the two branches of the clan to build up over time.


That definitely seems to be the issue here. There's nothing specifically saying that this is what happened, that the lines of communication were cut between them over the time skip (How long was it again? 3 years?). But it does seem incredibly likely that there was some active meddling involved.
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Re: chapter 54 : page 128

Postby Lee'yane » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:13 pm

Doom Chinchilla wrote:
SzordrinZaphresz wrote:"The clan wants Val blood..."

Right, Kor, that's why you and your mom, Sang, are working for the biggest Vals of all Snad and Zala!

And you think killing or chaining up Ariel will change that?

Just what lies has Sang been feeding you?


He's just an hypocrite...

The thing is that we know that, Ariel knows that, maybe Sang knows that...
And maybe he knows too.
But the commoners with their antival civil war don't know that. Which means given Koil/Sangs fragile hold on them, they can't afford to ignore that misdirected hatred, or even attempt to redirect it back on Snad (especially with their appearantly abysmal skill in public management) without bringing that hatred on themselves. The only option is to attempt to eppease them by agreeing with them and bringing Ariel back as a message to Val's everywhere. It's starting to look like the real reason Quain was holding it together was because her legends acted as accidental propaganda, and the Sargs have no idea how to utilize social warfare beyond actual mob mentality. Which means they sure as hell wouldn't know how to diffuse such manipulations either.

And I think that's what Snad's been adept at manipulating: public opinion. Public opinion of both commoners and clans can determine how well people follow you, how loyal they'll be, and even if a new Illharess will be accepted. Not to mention the clans only exist because a powerful person and their powerful families said they Rule those with less power and those people with less power couldn't disagree. It makes sense in a world thats been so ruled by powerful individuals for so long that the drow easily overlook the power of public opinion. That both the clans and commoners would forget that the clans only have power because they all believe they do.

So now that the commoners are questioning that right to Rule, the one who knows how to manipulate public opinion can easily start a civil war no matter how stupid the details or truly self destructive the opinions to start them
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