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Chapter 54 : page 110

Re: Chapter 54 : page 110

Postby Junglefowl26 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:42 pm

Sounds similar to what I was expecting - resentment over them missing out on three important years and thinking that their war was hopeless.

Yet there is much that surprises and intrigues me - "ignore my pleas?" Given that Ariel talked a few chapters ago about not hearing anything in response to their own requests for reinforcements, I am guessing someone was deliberately severing communications between Mechitke and Chel. You know, it isn't that long a trip, they probably could have sent someone in person.

(I am guessing that someone is Snad. Yeah, I know fans blame her for everything, but it is hard to think of any other candidates)

"maybe the clan would have survived as it was" "Koil is dead" "we are what's left of the clan" - Sounds like some bad shit happened offscreen. Like civil war level bad.

"when the people still cared about Val titles" Sounds like Chel itself has changed quite a bit then. Could so much have happened in just three years? Course, all the ambassadors to the conference were from Val clans.....

I suppose with Kern's comment about characters lying we don't know if any of this is true, and thus don't know anything more than before, but I like to speculate off of something.

....anyone getting SSB vibes from Kel vs Mablevi there? ;p
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 110

Postby jarek56 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:47 pm

I think we're all forgetting something that could offer Sang's words a shred of legitimacy; remember that horrid orange demon thing that exploded from laele...laelae...uuhhhh...Quian's brain-dead demon-eating daughter? When those cameo characters foolishly cut her down after she ate Khaless alive?

http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=11615

Yeah that. You can see it attacking drow on sight. It literally showed up and NOTHING ELSE WAS SAID ABOUT IT. Then, silence for 3 years.

My hypothesis is as follows in two possible routes: Sang has been a grand puppetmaster faking Machike's rebellion to justify slaughtering them and taking sole power after that thing burst into being in the middle of Sarghress land and forced a battle of some kind. Either Koil died trying to stop it, or it destroyed enough of the Wolfie-elves to force them into Snad's all too eager arms. While it's possible that Sang did try to murder those children with a squad sent to 'protect' them, something makes me hesitant to say that without any more evidence to that point. Regardless, that demon would have put the hurt on Sarghs desperately weakened by internal division and lacking communication; doesn't matter how many of them there are, what just happened with Quain guarantees most would either flee or not respond to orders. Sang is now left as leader, and Snad offers her leadership of the Sarghs under the alliance. Snad is unquestionably the luckiest bitch in this setting, her rotten and dementia-ridden brain of paranoid megalomania always being blessed with yet another way out of her inevitably numbskull plots and failures...because I think she's pretty much the Anti-Christ and her gods don't have anyone else who could even do the job anymore. Anyway, Sang is left in the perfect position to seize power...and wants to kill off Machike to guarantee her place. Hand some suspiciously not-Sargh mana cannons to the barbarians to hide involvement while still forcing Machike onto aggression, then let Snad pull another numbskull plot with the airship and move on to where we are now.

What pokes holes into this argument is the assumption that Sang is actively trying to seize power...based on highly questionable deductions. We don't know who ordered those kiddies dead. We do know that Tainted fools did it. Nids almost exclusively use heavily tainted soldiers. Sang's openly shown squad was ALSO looking for scapegoats to blame for their deaths, suggesting Sang ALSO wanted them dead...or she was responsible for the masked killers and sent the squad to conveniently fail and 'catch who did it red-handed'. ANYTHING is possible, and honestly Kern has deliberately done all in his power to NOT explain what happened there, and it's annoying as hell. We can't assume anyone actually did it yet.

What is clear is that many of the Sargh revolutionaries were, in fact, part of a third faction, and Sang is stating she supports VALS, which leads me to believe that the anti-Vals were NOT under Sang's control or guidance, Quain's people just didn't care or obeyed orders and became leaderless after her death, and Sang's people want the good old days when they gained Val titles and old-style respect. Or the anti-Vals were always the majority of Quain's people, go figure. :P

OR.

Demon still causes hell in Sargh land, giving Snad the perfect chance to move in on a faction now desperately leaderless. Koil probably still dies or flees the demon of doom. Sang takes on rulership of what remains of the Sarghs, meaningless as that is; the events of Quain's downfall, Suube's idiocy, Sang's desperate complacency, Koil's being left in the crosshairs of something she was utterly powerless to stop leads to Sarghs being utterly coopted and left as nothing more than an extension of Snad's will. Snad handles the Demon...somehow. Otherwise, Chel would be dead, and no Sarghs would be here. The open declaration of the new control, though, is slow to spread; Felde's garrison attacked the Sarghs, so they didn't know or expect Sargh assistance to be anything but hostile. Machike is most likely Snad's...retarded games. Perhaps the Demon is still running amok? Perhaps the Anti-Val faction is now Snad's own toy?

Kern, it's not good storytelling when you keep us guessing like this for your actions scenes. *upset*
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 110

Postby Junglefowl26 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:08 pm

Hmm...I doubt one demon decimated a clan of 12,000 people, especially since that clan had gotten a lot of experience fighting demons in the last war. Plus, Kel and Ariel having been there wouldn't have helped that like Sang implies.

Though...maybe she was able to take over another body and use the stolen shapeshiting ability to make it look like her old self and took over the clan (possibly killing Koil in a duel, possibly triggering a civil war over a mysteriously returned Laele leading?)

...nah, that is also pretty unlikely. I hope we get some concrete answers at some point.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 110

Postby sunhawk » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:10 pm

So surface and underworld Sarghress were trying to talk and no one was getting through. Leaving both sides to think the other the asshole.

I'm thinking Snad has worked her plan in Chel. No more clans and their nobles. Just everyone under one supreme empress.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 110

Postby Margirita » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:38 pm

I could see the demon retreating into the shadow's, that seems to be what most demons I see in this comic doing. Koil could have taken over and fallen to Snad's manipulations thus being called "dead" by Sang. I know Keil was able to get messages in to non-command personel. Not sure what's happening with Sang, she may still be salvageable if I knew more about those 3 years on her end. But right now it's not looking good.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 110

Postby Mizu » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:45 pm

James Rye wrote:Anyone thinks Kel was about to say "Quain still lives?". XD


Doubt it unless she is in a coma, if she was still kicking there is no way she would have stayed hidden for 3 years or through all this that is happening this arc. He was probably going to try and say some variant of 'Quain wouldn't approve' in the vain hope he somehow still cares what she would want but is dumb enough to need it pointed out to him she wouldn't want him killing her son and her grandkids instead of handing clan rulership over to them as demanded by her nepotism.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 110

Postby Basileus_Ioannis » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:59 pm

I wonder what happened to Rosof and House Tions. He always seemed to provide a steadying effect on the clan. The loss of Rosof and Koil'dorath, Itan'sha taking House Mae'yukir down to help the Dutan'vir, and the Val faction in Machike their designated enemy, would kinda leave what's left (including Mablevi and his Fallen Legion) under Sang's command. Maybe Lae'less'mon did mess up the Sarghress, as they were depleted by the departure of the Mae'yukir (there go most of the sealers) and the Val loyalists (taking the rest). The Laths that remained might have been hard pressed to do anything with the mega-demon...

So here's my idea: maybe the Sharen came to their rescue with summoners, the next best thing to sealers, and saved the Sarghress' bacon. Sure, Sang might have been chagrined, hostile even. But if she was a Nid to begin with, perhaps a Nid agent brought the Sharen Connection to light, so she begrudgingly accepted being part of the alliance. Snad could be proud that the anti-Val, Sharen-hating Sangress were now working arm-in-arm with the Sharen, under her oversight :3
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 110

Postby jarek56 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:39 am

Junglefowl26 wrote:Hmm...I doubt one demon decimated a clan of 12,000 people, especially since that clan had gotten a lot of experience fighting demons in the last war. Plus, Kel and Ariel having been there wouldn't have helped that like Sang implies.

Though...maybe she was able to take over another body and use the stolen shapeshiting ability to make it look like her old self and took over the clan (possibly killing Koil in a duel, possibly triggering a civil war over a mysteriously returned Laele leading?)

...nah, that is also pretty unlikely. I hope we get some concrete answers at some point.

Ordinarily? I'd agree with you in a heartbeat, but this is Khaless merged with whatever the heck that mind-dead daughter was. Conventionally I'd agree hard, but something tells me from its immediate success in attacking 4 to 5 Sarghs experienced in all the demon-slinging, spell-blasting battles of the civil war leads me to believe that what spawned from their bloodthirsty idiocy under Suube's command is no ordinary demon. Still, that's just my intuition, and I am more than ready to be proven wrong.

I agree with your second assessment; a shapeshifter demon is just plain...unlikely. Unless Koil is dead :P
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 110

Postby SzordrinZaphresz » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:47 am

Koil's dead? What? Wasn't she with the legion, at Sang's side, at the attack on the Kyorl colony not that long ago?

Sang is lying through her teeth... unless Koil took an unlucky shot from the Airship's wild barrage when Sang herself ordered that frontal assault.

"Went into exile?"

Sang, your faction, among others, drove them out, and now you're siding with the Nids because you're jelly that they prospered for a while at Matchike, while Chel's been tearing itself apart thanks to your own schemes.

This is bad, very bad.

That demon gate is already going critical...
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 110

Postby Moric » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:44 am

SzordrinZaphresz wrote:Koil's dead? What? Wasn't she with the legion, at Sang's side, at the attack on the Kyorl colony not that long ago?


Nope. No Koil.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 110

Postby Pitdragon » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:58 am

Koil getting possessed and locked way or "disappearing" (Khaless returns to her sis) would be a "dead."

We could also get some sort of explanation to Ariel (not Kel, he's gotta be neutralized) on what went down. I suspect there was a communication breakdown where Kel never got answers he wanted and neither did Sang. Ariel might have believed there was no response, period, but perhaps Kel handled all of those communications (and she seemed to bend to him being in charge for the most part) and just didn't like the response he got. Could be the messenger was tampered with or a Nid, or the whispering towers sending a different message than what was intended while messages from Machike were "read" wrong on purpose. So Kel wouldn't know that Koil fell (perhaps fighting off that demon did her in), just that Koil had nothing for him, and Sang would find her pleas met with hostility or silence when they were never brought to Kel to begin with.

The lie could be in her not caring though - yes, it would've been easier if Ariel and Kel just worked with her, but now she has a clear path forward with no one to get in her way by being more than a figurehead. She may have not wanted to try harder and let the situation play out as it did, her frustration being less on him not joining and more on them "starting" a war. Could be that Sang has only heard what the Alliance has told her as to what happened at Machike, which wouldn't be the truth. Could be that she figured out it was a lie but again didn't care because taking out the old Val lineage works in her favor.

Could be she is lying about something that protects Koil and could protect the clan but at the expense of Kel's life and possibly Ariel's. "We are the Sarghress!" That cry could be read to show that her focus is less on Quain's lineage and more on the clan itself - to destroy the clan for the sake of the bloodline kinda runs against everything Quain was supposedly trying to achieve. So I dunno, we're stuck with more questions than answers.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 110

Postby Irae Maeviir » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:52 am

Well, so far we know that they want to capture Ariel and kill Kel.

This could be blamed as some form of miscommunication. But the Fallen Legion seems too eager to murder everybody, the way some of them smile, how they are delighted in spilling the blood of their "prey". To the point they almost killed Ariel by mistake. This is less about "Death to the Vals" and more about "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!".

We can't really say they are eager to kill other Sarghress, but Ariel's forces are not just Sarghress colonists, there are many people who abandoned the clans and I think this might be one good reason Snad wanted to stamp out Machike.

Machike is something odd. We see people from many different clans who were tired of the bullshit going on in the Underworld and decided to go have a new life on the surface away from the Vals. Sure, there were Vals up there, but Kel doesn't strike me as the kind of leader that would rub his status on people just to stroke his ego so I think most people would be fine with him around.

Of course this is a problem for Snad, who plans to rule the Underworld with an iron fist by exploiting the Val system, as seen with the poison flower plot, get the Vals infected, then promise the cure if they bow down. People could get tired of that situation and simply go to Machike, where her influence is probably limited to some hidden agents or spies at best (and who knows, maybe said agents/spies decide they are better off in Machike).
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 110

Postby Moric » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:44 pm

So, theories that still may hold water:

1. The Nids hold key positions in the mid/upper ranks of the Sarghress. They are effective gatekeepers of information, with the resources to pit their superiors against one another. Sang may be ambitious, but she is primarily being used.

2. Sang IS a Nid. She hates the Sharen for what they did to her, and has turned to Snadhya'rune much as Bae'rali had. As such, she may well have orchestrated Leale's tainting (perhaps with Mablevi), Suu'be's revolt, perhaps prevented Quain from receiving proper medical attention, sandbagged the District War for maximum destruction, etc. All that was left of the Old Guard was Rosof, Koil, Quill'yate, and Kel'noz. Well, offing a broken, mourning Koil would be easy as cake, Rosof may be honorable, but he knows when to play ball. That leaves Quill and Kel, who won't leave Felde alive. Game over, Snadhya wins.

3. Sang is a bio-summon. Same as above, but the Sang we see is not willfully evil so much as a puppet. This is my favorite, just for the creepiness factor and it ties back to the Orthorbbae mysteries early on.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 110

Postby Marcellogo » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:22 pm

Sang is mixing lies with truth there: she cannot say open lies in front to her own subordinates.
So I fear that the death of Koil' is true.
I'm however terrorized that something awful is happened to Chryst'el also.
And , i know it's apparently absurd but I fear about Mel' and Zhor also.
I would pay attention also to the part about people of Chel' not caring about Val title anymore
and , even more, about the "we are what is left of the clan".
So they have reversed to be just little more than a mercenary clan now?
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 110

Postby Irae Maeviir » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:13 pm

At this point I'm more worried about Zhor, I dont care much about Mel... who just stands still while someone cuts her daughter's arm in front of her...
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