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Chapter 54 : page 38

Re: Chapter 54 : page 38

Postby Dalvyserran » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:24 pm

SzordrinZaphresz wrote:
Mizu wrote:
If they sent them packing immediately instead of humoring them with an audience they would have been gone by the time the legion arrived and then they would have ignored the village to keep on following them.


Um. Nope. The Legion would have gone in there and taken hostages anyway, if not just killed everybody. They sent the wolves in before they even got over the hill to see the airship.

If there were "runners," then Chiri and the other seer would have gotten a "vision" about the attack because Sang and the runners would have been thinking about it. We've established that's how it works.

For them to NOT receive a vision is telling. Maybe Sang and the others chanced upon the airship by luck as they were scouting the colonies within flying range of Ys, and that's why the cannons weren't in place.


Are we reading the same comic?
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 38

Postby Pitdragon » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:26 am

I'm gonna agree with Mizu - Shimi herself said that prescience is imperfect. The reason they see things vs not seeing things is not clearly defined, but could be triggered by strong emotions. Chiri was emotionally pre-occupied in her own issues, and likely Merril was similarly distracted (visions she may have had may have had to do more with Chiri and Shan's coming nuptials since that was strong on their and the town's mind, if she had any). Mana amounts and a ton of other things involving seers may also have to do with it. But in the end, if Chiri didn't feel that oncoming horde when they were first at the borders of the town then she wouldn't have felt a random runner. And since we saw at Ys a runner need not be very close to see an Airship, the empaths could miss them too. And if the legion is not moving as one completely, and were already deploying people toward known settlements in hope of making it to a future location before the ship would arrive (every stop has negotiations, troop assignments, resources to load on - the ship could be somewhere for hours to days from that), then they could've got lucky in seeing the airship arriving and sent more runners back to grab the nearest detachment at another colony, or to warn an advancing group that is making its way toward any nearby rim colony to push themselves to reach the Kyorl colony before the ship could leave.

There's also two (former? hmm, we shall see) Nids on board, if there are ways to track them the way Ariel used that strange "compass" to look for Faen then it also isn't hard to figure out where they are. But I won't assume that unless it is brought up (and the compass may be tuned to just see knots of mana, fine enough that the imprisoned in that Halme castle would show up, so that would throw out that path already).

There are a lot of variables, but seeing the ship before getting into town proper is something that would be very possible (there it is, floating above all the buildings, might be visible over that hill or from another direction). Wouldn't take much for a scouting group that saw it to send someone back so that the Legion was there by daybreak, all the while still having some watch from a distance and making a reasonable assumption that the ship would stay put until morning at least. The spotters need not have come from that hill either - the Legion may have taken runner reports about the town to choose how to use the terrain to their advantage, and the hill being where they came over would mask the bulk of the Legion until it is too late to stop them, especially with everyone distracted by the wolves. Plus higher ground for those harpoons to try and get the ship.

So no, Chiri and Merril's visions did not come into play because they can't prescience at will... even Ana'hid, who seemed to, still needed the subject before her to do it, and they had no clue anyone was nearby. Therefore, this surprise attack was easily done, and saying they didn't see the airship or send scouts to see it before arriving seems like an odd stretch when a scout can come from any direction and a planned attack would make use of terrain.

As to "would have attacked the town anyway"... I'd need to know what the dynamic in Chel is between clans to answer that. Could be they only attacked because the ship being docked there gave them a chance, and like Ash they also took it (collateral be damned). But if the ship was not there, they might not have acted the same. Again, too many unknown variables there.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 38

Postby Junglefowl26 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:48 am

Kel has mentioned that Machtike was not the only colony that has suffered from Feldian aggression, and Kern mentioned elsewhere that it was not the first colony the crew bombed, so I suppose it could be argued that someone would come for the colony eventually....

But the Kyrols have no way to know that, and the legion was looking for the airship in particular when it attacked, so even if something would have happened later the fact that they lost their home now is the fault of the Wolf Pack

And besides, it might not have. The colony might have been safely under control already, or not worth the effort. Frankly, it is a bit hard to say what the Chelians would have done since we know so little about why they attacked Machtike (and other colonies) in the first place.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 38

Postby Tainted Messiah » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:43 pm

Mizu wrote:If they sent them packing immediately instead of humoring them with an audience they would have been gone by the time the legion arrived and then they would have ignored the village to keep on following them.


To be entirely fair I am not sure anyone can say just what would of happened because we don't really know what the legions motivation is at this time.

I am not suggesting they are wandering around taking over colonies while casually hunting the whale... I agree that would likely use up a lot of resources and time. They clearly have a goal to capture/kill Ariel and company while likely regaining the airship.

But on the flip side the idea that a colony that might have been seen as collaborating with Ariel might still of received the same treatment and had no means of escape if they had left. After all even if they had told them to bugger off all the scouts would of seen is them stopping off.. maybe for supplies? then taking off again...who knows. And Sang hardly stopped to ask anyone instead the immediate response was to let loose a large pack of indiscriminate wolves into the colony to attack everyone and cause chaos.

At this point I can understand Chiri's anger I mean if Ariel had not come at all then yes they would of almost certainly been left alone... at least for now. But things are still clearly not well in the world of the Drow and I think Chiri might be being a bit blissfully ignorant of that.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 38

Postby Smokehammer » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:08 pm

Junglefowl26 wrote:But the Kyrols have no way to know that
If Kel knew about the other colonies, why wouldnt the Kyorl? Kel should be far more "out of the loop" than a colony on friendly terms with its Clan.

and the legion was looking for the airship in particular when it attacked
Yeah good point. Even if the Feldians were running around "randomly" attacking colonies, there's little to no evidence of the Sarghress doing so. Sang is specifically trying to get the Wolf Pack. I doubt she gives a dick about the Kyorl, but for her to simply burn them out so that Ariel cant land there might be a stretch. Then again if I were her, and I had observed Quain's grandkid's habits while she was within my grasp -one of the first places I would look for her is amongst the Kyorl on the surface. After all, Ariel never made a secret of her friendship with Chiri, thus her chumminess with the Kyorl. And out of all the Clans in Chel, the Kyorl are the least happy with centralism. If they hadnt seen the ship they may have left a small garrison and kept the Kyorl under martial law (which I would see as an attack).
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 38

Postby Margirita » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:56 pm

Welp it seems Snad will get what she wants this way. the Kyorl and the Sarg's takeing out each others forces. Something that Ana once denyed her.
A case could be made that they where marching to take out that town anyways and happened upon the ship. It's really hard to move a army to keep up with a air ship by a week or so let alone a few hours. It would also explain why the cannon's lagged behind. It is likely that Sang was moving in people to take out the town when she got a message from her scout saying the ship would be arriving there. After that she may have scrambled her forces together and used the dogs to buy more time for people to arrive.

If your tracking a airship and you don't know where it is heading it makes sence to starve it of safe ports in which to land. That town was one of the last safe ports.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 38

Postby Junglefowl26 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:13 am

Tainted Messiah wrote:And Sang hardly stopped to ask anyone instead the immediate response was to let loose a large pack of indiscriminate wolves into the colony to attack everyone and cause chaos.

I have to admit, that is part of this that feels kind of weird to me.

Ariel had conquered at least one other colony by force - how did they know that the Kyorl were cooperating instead of just surrendering the face of overwhelming force?
Are they taking some attitude of "if you don't resist Ariel to the death you are a traitor" ?

Smokehammer wrote:If Kel knew about the other colonies, why wouldnt the Kyorl? Kel should be far more "out of the loop" than a colony on friendly terms with its Clan.

Well, the Kyrol colony is pretty far from Chel and the other colonies, which I imagine would add a great deal to its isolation. Plus, looking at who was there and why, I get the feeling some degree of isolation was deliberate, so they might not get visitors often. Finally, it is a really small colony, so again that would reduce the number of visitors it would get to spread news. Certainly they didn't seem to have any inkling of the conflict

Additionally, Kel might have learned what he did from Kyo, or other captured or defected Nids - or from visiting another colony that had been attacked as well. This colony would have neither of those sources of information.

(Course, I still find it a bit weird that Machtike did know so little - I mean, it isn't that far from Chel, it was described in the past as a big stop in the overworld trade, there were colonists coming from multiple clans from Chel, and there was a whispering tower system that sent news of Quain's death pretty fast. It seems weird that they wouldn't get news or rumors of what was going on, or at least they should have found the silence more strange and concerning than they did)

Yeah good point. Even if the Feldians were running around "randomly" attacking colonies, there's little to no evidence of the Sarghress doing so. Sang is specifically trying to get the Wolf Pack. I doubt she gives a dick about the Kyorl, but for her to simply burn them out so that Ariel cant land there might be a stretch. Then again if I were her, and I had observed Quain's grandkid's habits while she was within my grasp -one of the first places I would look for her is amongst the Kyorl on the surface. After all, Ariel never made a secret of her friendship with Chiri, thus her chumminess with the Kyorl. And out of all the Clans in Chel, the Kyorl are the least happy with centralism. If they hadnt seen the ship they may have left a small garrison and kept the Kyorl under martial law (which I would see as an attack).

Good points - and even if they missed Ariel landing there, they might have interrogated the villagers about her course and heading. And maybe requisition some supplies - it would be hard to drag a supply train around with them, particularly considering how fast they would need to move to keep up with the airship. Either would have been easier to deal with than an all out attack.

(Though I am not sure the Kyrol are the most displeased. Ana doesn't like Snad, but her representative said later she doesn't care who is in charge so long as there is peace, and seemed excited at the offer to be put in charge of education)
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 38

Postby Smokehammer » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:47 am

I meant in general as a people -they prefer isolation. Ana has thrown a bit of a wrench in that though, yeah.
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Re: Chapter 54 : page 38

Postby Junglefowl26 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:03 am

Smokehammer wrote:I meant in general as a people -they prefer isolation. Ana has thrown a bit of a wrench in that though, yeah.

Oh yeah, good point.
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